Casino District

[metro]

OKCRT, that's a pretty ignorant statement, do you see casinos in progressive cities like Miami, NYC, SF, Portland, Denver?

[OKCMallen]

I find I'm undecided. After all, Para-mutual betting was going to be the answer to the prayers. The lottery was going to be the answer to the prayers. Now it's casinos that will be the answer de jour. Mixed in along the way was the slash taxes mantra to send revenues spiraling.

Anymore, anytime someone tells me X is the newest greatest kicker revenue geyser, I start worrying more about my shoe soles getting soaked than I do my head getting wet.

You're worried about how the money is spent, it would seem, rather than whether there is actual revenue. I think there is positive revenue for the state lottery. ( I know I'm buying like 5 powerballs on the way home!)

[OKCMallen]

Get with it OKC!!! Get in to the 21st Century and stop with the backwater podunk attitude. Build a damn casino downtown so all of us white trash trailer park residents can go spend OUR hard working dollars there instead of spending them in Shawnee,Norman or El Reno. It doesn't have to be in Bricktown but it does need to be fairly close to the new Conv. Center/Hotel. Don't think for a minute that many of the trailer trash convention folk will not visit a nice casino while they stay in the area. It's a gold mine waiting to happen,for someone. Those that don't like,don't go. Simple.

Not only white trash likes to gamble. I like to gamble. How does that make me white trash?

Otherwise, I agree with you!

[OKCMallen]

OKCRT, that's a pretty ignorant statement, do you see casinos in progressive cities like Miami, NYC, SF, Portland, Denver?

Does the lack of casinos in those cherry-picked cities somehow make it a bad idea? You'd make a bad attorney. That doesn't prove anything. Those cities all have decades, if not a century or two, of a head start on development. Or they have huge built-in advantages we'll never have (like a bay or being a port).

St. Louis has them. New Orleans has at least one big one. I *WISH* we had the development of StL, and NOLA is like a convention mecca. I'm going to a convention there next month, actually.

[Jesseda]

metro, they might not be in progressive cities but they are on the borders or them, due indian territory laws, viejas casino is outside of san diego, there is casinos outside of L.A area, there is casinos in and out of albuquerque, st louis, kansas city., the suburbs of pheonix has them. Cities that are not restiricted to indian land gambling and laws has them in the city St Louis, kansas City, New Orleans.. etc.. So um yeah a major casino can work in other cities, why not okc

[OKCMallen]

metro, they might not be in progressive cities but they are on the borders or them, due indian territory laws, viejas casino is outside of san diego, there is casinos outside of L.A area, there is casinos in and out of albuquerque, st louis, kansas city., the suburbs of pheonix has them. Cities that are not restiricted to indian land gambling and laws has them in the city St Louis, kansas City, New Orleans.. etc.. So um yeah a major casino can work in other cities, why not okc

Well-put. Metro didn't have a viable point.

[OKCRT]

OKCRT, that's a pretty ignorant statement, do you see casinos in progressive cities like Miami, NYC, SF, Portland, Denver?

Those cities have many more entertainment options than OKC does. You do understand that casinos are more than just gambling,right? Casinos are obviously an entertainment option that people want so why not give them an option in downtown OKC rather than sending them to the suburbs to spend their money?

[OKCRT]

Not only white trash likes to gamble. I like to gamble. How does that make me white trash?

Otherwise, I agree with you!

sarcasm

[OKCMallen]

Those cities have many more entertainment options than OKC does. You do understand that casinos are more than just gambling,right? Casinos are obviously an entertainment option that people want so why not give them an option in downtown OKC rather than sending them to the suburbs to spend their money?

I don't htink they have a viable answer to that. South Norman isn't rife with crime due to Riverwind.

[Midtowner]

You lowered yourself when you said it won't help with conventions. Yeah. Vegas has a TERRIBLE convention business. Having a casino near the convention area would be huge. I'm pretty sure Harrah's in New Orleans does pretyt well by the Quarter and convention area.

OKC is and never will be a New Orleans or Las Vegas. Hence, any comparison is probably a waste of time. Too many outside variables.

Is there somehow a rash of crime in the parking lot of Remington, Riverwind, etc? I've never once heard that.

Seeing as how both of these entities are fairly isolated from pedestrian traffic, again, i don't see a strong comparison in either event. It probably wouldn't be difficult to research, but we're not talking about the same sort of development.

I like how you "think" think literature is "conclusive."

A cursory review of the peer-reviewed stuff I came up with on Google shows conclusive results. Of course, one meta study I read did point out that most of these studies don't take into account a number of variables such as adjacent development, etc. Just about everything that's out there does say that there is a correlation between casinos and increased crime.

As far as that goes, Bricktown being what it is, and Oklahomans, being the paranoid fraidy cats we are, just a little crime might really put a big dent in Bricktown's image.

And even if there are studies that state similar findings, that doesn't mean Bricktown would turn into a cesspool of crime. Just that we'd need to be aware and provide a higher level of security so avoid it. Which I'm sure can be arranged in a way the casino fronts most of the cash for that.

We don't need Bricktown to be a "cesspool" in order for its current clientelle to start going to Moore or Quail Springs instead of Bricktown. Just a few tragic incidents is all that'll be required. Look at Crossroads. It was hardly a cesspool, but its reputation, fair or not, only took a few years to kill it.

#3 is so wrong I don't know where to begin. #1- who said a casino has to complement Bricktown's general business model. #2- you assume a limited number of people that will be sucked away from Bricktown. That's ridiculous. It would bring MORE people to Bricktown.

More people to Bricktown doesn't mean more money to Bricktown if we exclude for analysis purposes, the hypothetical dollars being spent at the hypothetical casino. Folks would go there for the casino, casinos being designed as they are designed, they'll stay in the casino, spend all of their money there and then leave. If nothing else, we might actually end up with a well deserved reputation for having a lack of adequate parking.

#3- you assume that people do, indeed, go into casinos and never come out to eat, etc. #4-even if people are staying in the casino and all of a sudden never walk around Bricktown, if the casino provides better entertainment and restaurants than Bricktown, then the consumers are getting what they want.

#3 is a safe assumption because that's how casinos are designed. They will have the cheapest food in Bricktown because their profit model doesn't depend on selling food, and generally speaking, it won't take much for their quality to be on par with (or really better than) everything else in the area. If you want to have an empty riverwalk, go right ahead and put 'em in.

I'm not dead set against a Casino, but if we want to have a diverse set of businesses operating in the area, a Casino is not really compatible.

[OKCMallen]

They'll never have a movie theater, a Tapwerks, a Bourbon Street, a Brix, etc. Mid, you're just assuming more people WON'T come. All of a sudden the families at Marble Slab will disappear? #3 is not a safe assumption whatsoever. I don't think you gamble. I thin you have a narrow view of how casual gamers behave.

And in the case more people AREN"T coming, it's because Bricktown is dying from strong external forces unrelated to the presence of a casino.

[Jesseda]

i remember when people where complaining about coyote ugly going in, saying it was going to bring unwanted people to the area, and crime would go up lol... so has it?

[Midtowner]

i remember when people where complaining about coyote ugly going in, saying it was going to bring unwanted people to the area, and crime would go up lol... so has it?

I'm fine with Coyote Ugly.

Definitely not fine with the Jersey Shore douchefest at America's Bar if that's still around.

[Jesseda]

I wasnt talking a specific person when i mention some people where complaining about coyote ugly.. just mainly saying i have heard the (it will bring crime, and bad people ) over and over again.. we do need more entertainment in bricktown likea dave and busters, or something like that madam tuso wax museum, and fun stuff like that to attract more tourist to stay more than a couple hours in downtown and bricktown area

[Midtowner]

Mid, you're just assuming more people WON'T come.

You're right about one thing. I don't gamble. My money is in the stock market... so maybe I'm the dummy?

Seriously though, casinos have restaurants. I can't imagine the restaurants on the canal could compete in quality or price with what you find in a casino. Now, we can chalk them up as free market casualties, but I don't think that's what we're looking for in an entertainment district.

[metro]

So Matthew, are you saying you don't think a real casino wouldn't have comparable restaurants and clubs to the ones you mention? As you stated, people go there not just to gamble, so it's assumable that comparable restaurants, clubs and entertainment would be included.

As far as crime, you'd be ignorant to think it doesn't come with crime, especially white collar. OKC's selling point is that it's a family friendly place, not many big league cities can say that. Its in our cards, were not going to be a Vegas, NOLA, or a riverboat casino in STL. While your at it, how well is Detroit doing with it's MGM Grand and other casinos?

[Jesseda]

some casinos have live entertainment on the weekend, shows, to bad there is not any that is like vegas here in oklahoma where they have upscale shopping in the casinos.. if they could do it right, i think a casino with all the bells and whistles would do great in bricktown.. casino with 7 restaurants, 4 bars, live entertainment , theater, kids quest, shopping area. i think it would be great thing for the city.. to all those who dislike the idea of a casino, simply stay out of it (walk on by)

[Jesseda]

yeah thats what people said 20 years ago about a river-canal running through downtown okc area, you never know what can happen in okc. If someone did then by all means please write a book about what is going to happen in okc between 2012-2025. I would be first in line to buy a copy!

[OKCMallen]

You're right about one thing. I don't gamble. My money is in the stock market... so maybe I'm the dummy?

Seriously though, casinos have restaurants. I can't imagine the restaurants on the canal could compete in quality or price with what you find in a casino. Now, we can chalk them up as free market casualties, but I don't think that's what we're looking for in an entertainment district.

You can't avoid free market casualties. And honestly Mid, the restaurants in OK casinos are NOT good. Trattoria il Centro and Iguana and Bourbon Street have nothing to fear. Sometimes we'll choke down the buffet at Remington. But that's because me and my old lady get the shakes if we're away from the machines for too long...

[Kerry]

I don't think you gamble. I thin you have a narrow view of how casual gamers behave.

The problem is not the casual gambler.

[OKCMallen]

The problem is not the casual gambler.

The casual gambler is the vast vast majority of gamblers iin Oklahoma. What's the problem, Kerry. What are you scared of today?