OKC Chamber now supporting grocery store wine/beer sales

[Hondo1]

This issue reminds me of similar social/economic lines of argument taken in the 80s when county option liquor by-the-drink was approved by the voters. Oklahoma's cultural shifts are like molasses; slow to come. I don't think anyone can argue that passing liquor by the drink has not had benefits, particularly when you consider how many diverse restaurants have opened or located in the metro, creating many new jobs. In spite of the dire predictions over liquor by the drink; we're still here and kicking. Oklahoma has some of the most repressive and archaic liquor laws in the country clearly designed to benefit a small and powerful group of distributors. Why can't I purchase a cork screw or a wine glass in a liquor store? If you're happy with the status quo, so be it. But if you look at what other states have done in regards to selling wine, strong beer and even spirits in grocery stores, it's apparent Oklahoma is again, far behind the curve. Maybe the chamber's stance on this will spark some changes.

[foodiefan]

[QUOTE=semisimple;386709]
Perhaps you can reflect for a moment on all the families who have, as you say, "lost their livelihood" due to the proliferation of Wal-Mart supercenters, Home Depot, etc. over the metro area.

There was nothing to protect those people from big-box competition. Why should a few mom-and-pop liquor stores be spared? There is no legitimate reason that they should be protected by a law.

QUOTE]

Hear!! Hear!!

[redrunner]

I tried searching the internet for liquor stores per capita to see where OKC stands and couldn't find much help but I did find a link to a website for a group in Minnesota also proposing to legalize wine sales in grocery stores. There were some interesting facts that of the five cities with the most liquor stores per capita, four allow wine sales in grocery stores. Take a look around there's some interesting information.

http://www.winewithdinner.com/mythfact.html

[okcpulse]

Good find, redrunner. It certainly blows ABLE's argument out of the water.

[Spartan]

The last few sentences of the newsok article stuck out to me.

"The Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma, which is comprised of state liquor store owners, opposes allowing wine and strong beer in grocery stores because it fears the practice would harm locally owned businesses that make up Oklahoma's liquor retail and distribution industry.

The association also says it offers better customer service than chain stores that might carry the same products if allowed to do so."

There are many things wrong with this argument (as Betts and Mallen pointed out) but all I will say is let the customer decide. The Retail Liquor Assoc doesnt need to make decisions for me. If i want better customer service I will continue to go to independent liquor stores. If I want wine while Im buying my pasta, let me get it at a grocery store.

If we wanted specialized shopping, and to use government to keep the mom and pop stores alive, there should have been a law eons ago against selling electronics in discount stores. Same goes for groceries. What an idiotic claim to make after Oklahoma has practically become a gigantic collection of nothing but Wal-Mart Supercenters.

[OU Adonis]

A NewsNow 53 poll (Channel 9) showed 30% in favor, and 70% opposed to this. I was pretty shocked. I know its not scientific and the ballots can be stuffed but still.

[OKCMallen]

A NewsNow 53 poll (Channel 9) showed 30% in favor, and 70% opposed to this. I was pretty shocked. I know its not scientific and the ballots can be stuffed but still.

We need a generational shift.

[okcpulse]

A NewsNow 53 poll (Channel 9) showed 30% in favor, and 70% opposed to this. I was pretty shocked. I know its not scientific and the ballots can be stuffed but still.

Considering they gave misleading numbers on drunk driving deaths (they used Texas numbers) the poll results come as no shock.

[okclee]

A NewsNow 53 poll (Channel 9) showed 30% in favor, and 70% opposed to this. I was pretty shocked. I know its not scientific and the ballots can be stuffed but still.

Can you give out a link to this poll?

[OU Adonis]

It was discussed on the newscast on channel 53. I will see if I can find it on the website.

[okcpulse]

Okay, I have a huge problem with the way News 9 presented the data, so I did some numbers crunching of my own. In 2008, Oklahoma had 274 alcohol-related fatalies. Texas had 1,463. Oklahoma in 2008 had 3,644,025 residents, while Texas has more than 24 million. So, if you presented the data on a numerical basis, the argument has been manipulated into pushing people to vote no.

So, what was the death rate per 100,000 people in 2008 in Oklahoma and all of its neighboring states? Please see below. I WILL say, that even 1 death is 1 too many when it comes to alcohol-related fatalities. But restricting WHERE you buy beer and wine is not the answer. It's about educating young kids that alcohol, machinery and speed is a death-knell.

State -Strong Beer/ Wine in Grocery Stores- -Alcohol-related Fatalities- -Percent of Total Vehicle-Related Fatalities- -Rate Per 100,000-
Arkansas -Yes- -205- -34%- -7.148-
Colorado -No- -202- -37%- -4.093-
Kansas -No- -157- -41%- -5.612-
Missouri -Yes- -364- -38%- -6.111-
New Mexico -Yes- -118- -32%- -5.939-
Oklahoma -No- -274- -37%- -7.519-
Texas -Yes- 1,463- -43%- -6.019-

I am going to send this over to News 9 and ABLE and tell them they may want to rethink their BS story. Based on the above data, I made sure that all sources were from 2008 for consistency. So, it appears that the results are a mixed bag. Missouri, which sells hard liquor at a gas station, had a lower death reate than Oklahoma. Same with Texas. In fact, Oklahoma had the HIGHEST death rate of all neighboring states. Arkansas comes in at a close second.

[betts]

And, as was stated above, there is no evidence selling wine and beer in liquor stores limits the number of successful freestanding liquor stores, nor does it seem to have any effect on state rates of alcoholism. In short, there's no data of any kind that supports selling wine and beer in grocery stores having a negative effect relative to states that don't. It's all BS and likely liquor lobby related BS.

[okclee]

If this news 53 poll is made up of the same people that email Ogle their 2cents remarks I am not surprised.

I would like to think that in the year 2011, with internet and social marketing, the smart people of Oklahoma can get the liquor laws changed.

[Kerry]

State -Strong Beer/ Wine in Grocery Stores- -Alcohol-related Fatalities- -Percent of Total Vehicle-Related Fatalities- -Rate Per 100,000-
Arkansas -Yes- -205- -34%- -7.148-
Colorado -No- -202- -37%- -4.093-
Kansas -No- -157- -41%- -5.612-
Missouri -Yes- -364- -38%- -6.111-
New Mexico -Yes- -118- -32%- -5.939-
Oklahoma -No- -274- -37%- -7.519-
Texas -Yes- 1,463- -43%- -6.019-

Based on this data the people that support restricted beer sales are actually the ones endangering the children.

[okcpulse]

The data above has been forwarded to ABLE and News9.

[Bunty]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of state legislators, regulators and other policy makers seldom venture outside of Oklahoma to see how the rest of the regulated world is living it up.

[okclee]

I think we know they venture outside of Oklahoma, because the taxpayers usually pay the travel expenses and many take full advantage of that.

[soonerguru]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of state legislators, regulators and other policy makers seldom venture outside of Oklahoma to see how the rest of the regulated world is living it up.

I don't have high hopes that this crude assemblage of knuckledragging neanderthals will do much to advance Oklahoma forward.

[Swake2]

The data above has been forwarded to ABLE and News9.

You expect ABLE to be reasonable? Please.

ABLE is going to fight this tooth and nail, not because they think the law is wrong or bad, but because it makes their turf smaller. That pointless law enforcement organization has no jurisdiction outside of liquor stores and bars. They have no jurisdiction over convenience stores or grocery stores so a change to expand what those stores can sell mean that ABLE’s world is just that much small and even more pointless.

[onthestrip]

The data above has been forwarded to ABLE and News9.

I can hear ABLE now, trying to spin that data. They will probably say something like, "Oklahoma already has a high alcohol related traffic fatality rate, this would only put more out there. Hide ya kids, Hide ya wife, yada yada yada"

[Matt]

You can run and tell that, homeboy!

[betts]

Sigh:

http://muskogeephoenix.com/local/x19...cohol-proposal

[bluedogok]

Liquor laws are well-established in this state. Hence, you have liquor stores owned mostly by moms and pops. We have a lot less to gain, in my opinion, and more to lose by changing the laws. We would have scores of people going out of business, just so we could purchase wine and strong beer at Wal-Mart. Some people so worked up over trivialities such as Whole Freaking Foods (whom is already coming), and their ability to purchase wine at the grocery store, a mere convenience, that they have a scant thought about ending someone's livelihood (wine, I'm pretty sure, is a liquor store's bread and butter). Many of the same people (you "progressives" here) also whine and complain about Wal-Mart taking over the world. We need local ownership, and changing decades-old laws will end local ownership of liquor stores. Our liquor laws aren't broken.

We have beer and wine in grocery stores here in Austin and have plenty of mom-n-pop type of liquor stores in addition to large liquor stores like Spec's and Twin Liquors. A Wal Mart or Target cannot compete with the HEB/Central Market, Whole Foods or Randall's stores here let alone against Spec's. I know of about 15 local mom-n-pop liquor stores between the large retailers in our area of South Austin. They all seem to be able to coexist peacefully.

A NewsNow 53 poll (Channel 9) showed 30% in favor, and 70% opposed to this. I was pretty shocked. I know its not scientific and the ballots can be stuffed but still.

News site polls and comments are about the most worthless things on the internet.

[mugofbeer]

We have beer and wine in grocery stores here in Austin and have plenty of mom-n-pop type of liquor stores in addition to large liquor stores like Spec's and Twin Liquors. A Wal Mart or Target cannot compete with the HEB/Central Market, Whole Foods or Randall's stores here let alone against Spec's. I know of about 15 local mom-n-pop liquor stores between the large retailers in our area of South Austin. They all seem to be able to coexist peacefully.

In reality, there seem to be so few grocery stores in OKC, the mom and pop liquor stores should do quite nicely.

[Kerry]

Sigh:

http://muskogeephoenix.com/local/x19...cohol-proposal

“I am not in favor of it,” Garrison said. “We have enough access with alcohol already. I don’t see how it will be a good thing. It would be tougher to police it.”

State Rep. George Faught, R-Muskogee also worried how such a law would be enforced. He said his personal convictions would prompt him to vote against such a proposal.

“I’ve always been against expanding drinking, though I do believe in free enterprise,” Faught said. “There might actually be an individual too young to drink ringing up a sale.”

Are these guys for real? That is bat**** crazy. How do they think the other states manage to pull it off?