Public safety is quite a bargain in OKC!

[okcsmokeandfire]

There is no other profession that requires its employees to take pay cuts and benefit cuts to hire additional employees. You are correct we are not a business nor an industry.

[MikeOKC]

FOR THE RECORD:

Oklahoma City: 607.0 square miles
Wichita, KS: 135.8 square miles

Source: city-data.com

By the way, Wikipedia shows Wichita proper at 138.9 square miles. First line under "Geography." What were you looking at Midtowner? Maybe Metro area? Easy mistake and no biggie. The numbers above are correct.

[Kerry]

There is no other profession that requires its employees to take pay cuts and benefit cuts to hire additional employees. You are correct we are not a business nor an industry.

Are you sure? I know of many businesses that give up ownership stake to bring in new employees or to pay existing employees.

[Kerry]

I guess it isn't just OKC

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...102943719.html

The Chicago police officers' union protested Wednesday outside the Chicago Police Department's South Side headquarters against Police Superintendent Jody Weis.

Approximately 250 officers some chanting "Jodi Weis is a coward," marched to protest what its members say is a dangerous manpower shortage, and to show their displeasure with the way their boss has run the department.

[bluedogok]

There is no other profession that requires its employees to take pay cuts and benefit cuts to hire additional employees. You are correct we are not a business nor an industry.

Are you sure? I know of many businesses that give up ownership stake to bring in new employees or to pay existing employees.

No, most are just getting pay and benefit cuts or just cut from their job entirely. I know many that have had pay cuts (me included) in addition to the ones that got laid off. I will say that 20+ years into the architecture biz that I am making around what most fire fighters make and most firefighters that I knew in OKC had a second income stream because of the nature of the fire fighter schedule leaving some open time to occupy themselves.

We have had our health insurance costs go up (for both the company and the employee) and benefit package cut down some every year. That is a fact of life in the business world now....if you have a job. Our contribution went up $45.00 a pay period and we have a $3,000 deductible now that we didn't have last year and the split is 30/70 instead of a co-pay for in-program doctors and 20/80 for out of program services. That is for my coverage alone, we have no kids and my wife has coverage through her job and they had a similar change in the past year. So our out of pocket costs went up a bunch in the past year....although the good news is we had our pay cut that we took two years ago to stay afloat reinstated.

Most union members (everywhere) squawk if they have to contribute anything towards their own health care, do the fire/police in OKC have to pay any of their insurance premiums? I'm asking because I don't know if that has changed since I moved away.

According to PayScale.com OKC has the 9th highest pay in the country for fire fighters right behind Austin. The top 7 are all Colorado Springs west and most have a much higher cost of living than OKC, Austin or Colorado Springs.

[Mikemarsh51]

Bluedogok, We certainly have to pay. My wife and kids are on her plan through the company she works for. On her plan they are on the top teir, for $7.00 less they would have been on the most basic HMO thru my insurance. Heres a nice tidbit of info. The city for no explained reason has offered to pay $1000.00 less for FD employees. Every other city employee will get an additional $1040.00. At the union meeting last night it was explained that we would be seeing a premium increase of 24.9% over last year.

[Midtowner]

FOR THE RECORD:

Oklahoma City: 607.0 square miles
Wichita, KS: 135.8 square miles

Source: city-data.com

By the way, Wikipedia shows Wichita proper at 138.9 square miles. First line under "Geography." What were you looking at Midtowner? Maybe Metro area? Easy mistake and no biggie. The numbers above are correct.

People per square mile.

[Midtowner]

There is no other profession that requires its employees to take pay cuts and benefit cuts to hire additional employees. You are correct we are not a business nor an industry.

And how many professions are basically immune from layoffs and cutbacks to benefits?

[Kerry]

At the union meeting last night it was explained that we would be seeing a premium increase of 24.9% over last year.

You didn't get home from that Union meeting at 12:03AM this morning did you? Are you the Union rep assigned to OKCTalk?

[Larry OKC]

Mid: I think his point was, how many professions require pay cuts etc to hire more people? My current employer had to let a few people go just over a year ago. We did get hours cut etc in the hopes that more people wouldn't have to be let go. So far, it seems to have worked, but it was to keep existing jobs and not hire more.

[bluedogok]

Bluedogok, We certainly have to pay. My wife and kids are on her plan through the company she works for. On her plan they are on the top teir, for $7.00 less they would have been on the most basic HMO thru my insurance. Heres a nice tidbit of info. The city for no explained reason has offered to pay $1000.00 less for FD employees. Every other city employee will get an additional $1040.00. At the union meeting last night it was explained that we would be seeing a premium increase of 24.9% over last year.

Thanks, I know that has been a point of contention at times publicly in most union negotiations and with the APD negotiations down here. The AFD union tends to not get as public as the APD union...most of the time.

I know what I pay for insurance premiums has gone up every year and now the out-of-pocket is going up significantly and most others in the private sector know this is commonplace anymore.

[MikeOKC]

You didn't get home from that Union meeting at 12:03AM this morning did you? Are you the Union rep assigned to OKCTalk?

One of these days OKCTalk is going to wake-up and bring real moderation to this free-for-all forum. When it happens and civility and no personal attacks are part of the agreement to post, and it's enforced, --- some of you won't know what to write. This place has run off so many quality posters because of its ultra-lax moderation policies. It's almost as bad as NewsOK and I won't even tread there anymore. I thought I'd try coming back but it's just one slap at each other after the next. Snarky, angry, bitter - it's nothing like a couple of the truly moderated forums I have been a part of for years where we all feel like family. Here, it's a family all right - just a highly dysfunctional one. It seems all disagreements are angry and snarky. This site needs serious moderation, it will die without it. I already see nothing but the same dozen or two posting all the time. Such potential just going to waste.

[Kerry]

One of these days OKCTalk is going to wake-up and bring real moderation to this free-for-all forum. When it happens and civility and no personal attacks are part of the agreement to post, and it's enforced, --- some of you won't know what to write. This place has run off so many quality posters because of its ultra-lax moderation policies. It's almost as bad as NewsOK and I won't even tread there anymore. I thought I'd try coming back but it's just one slap at each other after the next. Snarky, angry, bitter - it's nothing like a couple of the truly moderated forums I have been a part of for years where we all feel like family. Here, it's a family all right - just a highly dysfunctional one. It seems all disagreements are angry and snarky. This site needs serious moderation, it will die without it. I already see nothing but the same dozen or two posting all the time. Such potential just going to waste.

I wasn't being civil?

[okcsmokeandfire]

Mid: I think his point was, how many professions require pay cuts etc to hire more people? My current employer had to let a few people go just over a year ago. We did get hours cut etc in the hopes that more people wouldn't have to be let go. So far, it seems to have worked, but it was to keep existing jobs and not hire more.

Thank you Larry, that is exactly my point. I apologize if I did a poor job in presenting it.

[Wambo36]

I wasn't being civil?

You were being as civil as we've come to expect from you.

[Kerry]

you were being as civil as we've come to expect from you.

lol

[PennyQuilts]

OKC by Square Miles 621.2 = 1.5 Firefighters per square mile.
Wichita Kansas by Square Miles 115.1 = 3.8 FireFighters per square mile.

Thanks for that stat, Aaron - it was the first question I had. (clearly I am behind on this thread...)

[PennyQuilts]

If you all agreed to work 25 years before collecting retirement, that would probably take care of the staffing issues. Most of the rest of us work 40+ years before being eligible to retire. I think it would be a good idea to do the same with the military. We pay with our taxes for a lot of 40 year olds to collect retirement and work at a second career. My son is one of the ones who will be eligible to retire at 42, but that doesn't make it right.

I'm not sure they would be in shape to do the job unless they are behind a desk if they have to work 40 years to retire.

[PennyQuilts]

ok, by your logic, you must not care about public safety at all.. If you did, you'd be a fire fighter...

touche!

[PennyQuilts]

Response times to rural OKC should be in line with response times of rural fire departments elsewhere, not in line with response times within the city core. You live in the boonies, you accept the consequences of dealing with the boonies.

Agreed. But I sure hope they show up in time to save my barn. I have a fire hydrant out front and everything.

[PennyQuilts]

Why does Oklahoma City have more than twice the national average of firefighters?

http://www.nfpa.org/categoryList.asp...&cookie_test=1

Is it because we had the Oklahoma City bombing and there was such a focus on first responders that didn't catch on with the rest of the country until 911?

[PennyQuilts]

I guess it isn't just OKC

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...102943719.html

Chicago's firefighter union is powerful and I am not sure you can compare them to the rest of the departments. I know some guys from up there and it is pretty intense, politically.

[bornhere]

I think the size of the fire department has more to do with urban sprawl than with the bombing. We had a situation in the 1980's where we once literally ran out of firefighters and lost about a half dozen homes in a south side subdivision. Not 'out in the boonies' — this was in the developed part of the city.

[Mikemarsh51]

1983, Lakehurst subdivision, 11 houses totally involved. 1998, Lakridge Run, 6 houses burn. It happens, too many stucture on fire. No manpower left. It's heartbreaking to explain to someone why you are making no effort to save their house because it is too far gone.

[Swake2]

Mike, how many structural fires are there in Oklahoma City in a year on average?