MBG Restaurant & Cafe - OPINIONS WANTED

[betts]

Please no Hal Smith restaurants and two, why are we talking about Museum Cafe, sure they have good food, but are rarely busy. Every time I've eaten there it's been 3/4 empty and also when I walk/drive by all the time, it's half empty.

Because they have a very nice menu and their foods are well-prepared, that's why I mentioned them? I have no idea why it would be half empty. I've never had a bad meal there. It's a bit out of the way for the casual diner, however, and parking can be a pain in the neck. But, if I worked downtown and wanted to have a nice meal, the Museum Cafe would be high on my list.

[Steve]

Everytime I've been to the museum cafe it's been quite busy. Maybe you're going during the dinner hour when yes, it's more hit and miss. But I wouldn't describe the museum cafe as a failure.

[soonerguru]

I love the Museum Cafe.

[tuck]

For the record, we met with the consulting firm last week to talk through concepts, etc... We feel lucky to be considered for the restaurant and/or cafe and love seeing everyones support here for our group...AGEDG.

Regardless of who they go with, this restaurant needs to be a GREAT restaurant...final!!! We all need the restaurant and cafe to be successful...that's what is important!

Steve, I am a huge fan of Shake Shack. What Danny Meyer is doing there is focusing on quality ingredients, overwhelming perfect hospitality and "A" locations. We don't need his concept in the park, but I do think a similiar concept is the way to go.

Keep this discussion going strong...it's fantastic for all of OKC!

[Debzkidz]

I would love to see a Cheevers type place in the park, with outside dining. It would be a wonderful place to have Sunday brunch, while sitting outside.

As far as a coffeehouse, sure Starbucks, but when it comes to actual dining do something local. Whether we are here or traveling we just don't do chains if there are any other options. We love to discover dining that unique to the city we are visiting. I don't want to eat somewhere while traveling that I can get when I'm anywhere else.

As far as dress codes, etc. OKC is pretty casual and relaxed compared to many other cities. I can't think of too many places here that a tourist in shorts and a t-shirt couldn't walk into. I have been in places here where one table had diners in tux's and evening dresses, while the table next to them had jeans and tshirts and it's all good. That's what I like about it here.

[Steve]

Tuck, obviously I think if MBG can get Good Egg, or Ryan Parrott, Robert Painter and that gang, or whatever new set of twins Chris Lower can put together (all hail BTT), then there's a home run being scored. I only suggest an outside interest like Shake Shack if the top local folks aren't interested.
This is more a reflection on what I've seen at the state museum (where the vendor suddenly shut down last fall) and at the downtown library.
Glad to hear you guys are interested....

[Spartan]

I would love to see a Cheevers type place in the park, with outside dining. It would be a wonderful place to have Sunday brunch, while sitting outside.

As far as a coffeehouse, sure Starbucks, but when it comes to actual dining do something local. Whether we are here or traveling we just don't do chains if there are any other options. We love to discover dining that unique to the city we are visiting. I don't want to eat somewhere while traveling that I can get when I'm anywhere else.

As far as dress codes, etc. OKC is pretty casual and relaxed compared to many other cities. I can't think of too many places here that a tourist in shorts and a t-shirt couldn't walk into. I have been in places here where one table had diners in tux's and evening dresses, while the table next to them had jeans and tshirts and it's all good. That's what I like about it here.

I've found that a Thunder shirt and jeans is an acceptable substitute for a dress code and will get you past any front desk in OKC.

[CCOKC]

I am really excited with the prospect of having a beautiful setting to eat outside. When I think of this kind of restaurant, I am with betts in seeing more healthful menu full of fresh fruit options and a nice pot of tea. Of course, I am somewhat biased this way being a vegetarian I would prefer the hamburger was not stressed as the main option (sorry Steve). I can see this a great place to linger on a warm spring, summer or fall late morning to early afternoon. And I also like the Museum Cafe and most times I have been there it is quite full.

[Steve]

Don't say sorry. Not arguing with you at all CCOKC. Those are good ideas. Part of the confusion here, and we may need some clarification from Frittergirl, is are we talking about just the restaurant or the cafe too? The Shake Shack concept would obviously be more appropriate for the smaller cafe.

[CCOKC]

Yes, I am confused about that too. I could always go for a good shake though and would somehow find a way to make french fries and a chocolate shake a meal if I had to. Hell, I managed to make an apricot fried pie breakfast on my way to Dallas yesterday.

[HOT ROD]

I agree that we should have 2 or even 3 different concepts offered at MG.

1) upscale restaurant
2) hip 'chain'
3) kiosk

- Upscale Restaurant would be along the lines that you see at Central Park or Vancouver's Stanley Park. The restaurant would employ NORMAL restaurant hours (brunch, lunch, dinner) and would be located (at least partially) with a water view and patio. Maybe it could also have a section with a "view" of the inside of the conservatory. Dress code would be slightly more 'business casual', although the patio could be more 'casual' and they could have specific days/times for different codes. ... The menu would be upscale dining with emphasis on seafood, vegetarian, and organic. A very good example is Vancouver's spectacular Fish House The Fish House in Stanley Park.

- Hip 'Chain' would be a smaller restaurant that would be open for lunch and dinner (early dinner). It would primarily be a walk up variety but would also have inside dining and patio space. The restaurant would serve 'american comfort foods' but with an emphasis on organic and natural. It would be very hip, employing urban design and 'entertainment' options yet still tie to the 'gardens'. It would be located closer to the street, near the CBD or Devon entrance or possibly on the south east. It would be run by either a very good local or a nationally recognized "must have" hip chain - like Shake Shack or the equivalent. Dress code would be casual. The idea here is, have a small hip restaurant that places OKC on the map with visitors yet 'introduces them' to OKC and the gardens.

- Kiosk would be like pictures shown earlier and there could be more than one (I think 4 would be the maximum though). Kiosk would be located near the entrance(s) and/or prime gathering spot(s). The kiosk(s) would serve primarily soup, salad, and sandwiches - and (again) emphasis would be on local produce and products. Kiosk would be open for breakfast and lunch, maybe also early dinner/snack. Also, Kiosk should specialize on healthy DRINKS (smoothies, fresh organic juices, etc) and fruits/vegetables.

With these 3 restaurant/dining options, MBG would satisfy a wide range of consumers while keeping the gardens busy with patrons, tourists, and downtown workers throughout the day. Each type of dining option would have a specific audience or appeal but ALL would welcome everyone. Gardens' visitors could chose from something more OKC/local and/or fast to something more national/hip or slow/relaxed; MGB would satisfy all. I also think all 3 restaurant types should emphasize sustainability and nature, using recyclable materials and the park itself having a plethora of recycling recepticles available.

One thing I DONT want to see in MBG is ANYTHING that is already in Bricktown or downtown, sorry. I also DONT want to see the typical Okie burgers or "mexican"; MBG should be a DRAW on it's own and offer a complete experience that can't be found elsewhere in downtown (or even the city/state).

About the Kiosks, I also could see them ALSO located in the new Central Park and maybe a DIFFERENT upscale restaurant or two also located there. But I wouldn't want EXACT duplication (other than the kiosks). ...

[Rover]

In developing new product we start first with defining the market we are trying to reach. So, who exactly are we trying to appeal to? Visitors and sightseers at the Crystal Bridge? Downtown workers? Upscale workers or lower paid workers? Are we trying to get people to linger? Or to come eat and get back to work quickly? Men..women...children...or all? Attract new visitors or cater to the those already coming downtown? Etc., etc., etc.

Until you fully define who you are trying to attract and why, it is very difficult to project the requirements. Trying to appeal to everyone doesn't work. It doesn't work to generally fire a shot a a flock of ducks...to hit one you need to aim at ONE and hit it.

What are the objectives of the restaurant?

[metro]

Because they have a very nice menu and their foods are well-prepared, that's why I mentioned them? I have no idea why it would be half empty. I've never had a bad meal there. It's a bit out of the way for the casual diner, however, and parking can be a pain in the neck. But, if I worked downtown and wanted to have a nice meal, the Museum Cafe would be high on my list.

I stated their food was good, but I've seen it more half empty than full, and I live just blocks from it and go by there all the time.

Everytime I've been to the museum cafe it's been quite busy. Maybe you're going during the dinner hour when yes, it's more hit and miss. But I wouldn't describe the museum cafe as a failure.

As I stated above, the food is good, I said nothing about "failure", but if we're going to have a signature restaurant in the gardens, we can't afford for it to be "hit or miss during the dinner hour." Yes, their lunches are usually a little busier, but they are not consistently busy as we hope the MBG restaurant would be as a signature restaurant to OKC.

[HOT ROD]

In developing new product we start first with defining the market we are trying to reach. So, who exactly are we trying to appeal to? Visitors and sightseers at the Crystal Bridge? Downtown workers? Upscale workers or lower paid workers? Are we trying to get people to linger? Or to come eat and get back to work quickly? Men..women...children...or all? Attract new visitors or cater to the those already coming downtown? Etc., etc., etc.

Until you fully define who you are trying to attract and why, it is very difficult to project the requirements. Trying to appeal to everyone doesn't work. It doesn't work to generally fire a shot a a flock of ducks...to hit one you need to aim at ONE and hit it.

What are the objectives of the restaurant?

all the above, that's why I recommended we implement 3 different types of food establishments. With this, MBG would become more than 'just a gardens' or 'just another urban park', it would become a true Destination.

[CS_Mike]

I know this is likely a pipe dream, but maybe this would be enough of a signature location to go after Rick Bayless to open a concept in his hometown. This is assuming people of the city could manage to avoid lumping such a restaurant in the same category as all of the Tex-Mex places swarming the metro area, otherwise it would be pointless.

[metro]

Great idea, yes FritterGirl, please solicit Rick Bayless. It's worth a shot, even if it is a long one.

[FritterGirl]

In developing new product we start first with defining the market we are trying to reach. So, who exactly are we trying to appeal to? Visitors and sightseers at the Crystal Bridge? Downtown workers? Upscale workers or lower paid workers? Are we trying to get people to linger? Or to come eat and get back to work quickly? Men..women...children...or all? Attract new visitors or cater to the those already coming downtown? Etc., etc., etc.

Until you fully define who you are trying to attract and why, it is very difficult to project the requirements. Trying to appeal to everyone doesn't work. It doesn't work to generally fire a shot a a flock of ducks...to hit one you need to aim at ONE and hit it.

What are the objectives of the restaurant?

Hi Rover,

Critical questions, all. We are working diligently with the consulting group to define these specific target demographics. What I can tell you thus far is this:

1) Cafe will be targeted towards the casual downtown worker / tourist who is looking for a quick dine-in or carry-out experience. The cafe is adjacent to the Children's Garden and right next to the west border where there will be multiple outdoor tables and chairs for people to sit and enjoy the outdoor environment. As proposed, the cafe will also have chairs and tables indoors, but there is still consideration about the level of service (full service waitstaff vs. counter order & pick-up).

2) Restaurant is a bit more complex as there is a desire to look for a concept that will appeal to the downtown suit & tie folks as well as tourists during the day, but not be so elegant as to alientate sports or concert-goers before events at the Ford Center.

The price point for the restaurant will obviously be higher than the cafe, and would offer a variety of dishes at a variety of prices.

The "concept" here is what most is in question. As tuck noted, the consulting group met with him as well as other local restaurateurs to talk about those very things. Those will go into their findings as we move forward.

Hope this helps.

I'll be sending the link to this discussion to the consultants today. Great ideas, all. Keep 'em coming.

[John]

I think a few out of state burger concepts would do very well: Something along the lines of Snuffer's (Dallas), Bobby's Burger Palace (Bobby Flay), or Five Guys.

I also think a CoolGreens would do well for a 'healthier' and local option...

[Larry OKC]

...

The price point for the restaurant will obviously be higher than the cafe, and would offer a variety of dishes at a variety of prices. ...

This is something the City needs to approach very carefully in determining the lease for the spaces. Don't want to make it so high that you end up with a $10 hot dog. Maybe better to approach it the same way they did the Thunder lease...a "break-even philosophy".

[lasomeday]

With the cafe and restaurant another smaller concept......

people's pops

[Kerry]

I'm not sure how big of a location we are talking about but I think a Sweet Tomatoes would be a good fit. It is salad bar buffet with soups, breads, desserts, and pizza for kids. Our family really likes it and there aren’t any in Oklahoma.

Souplantation & Sweet Tomatoes : Family Friendly Salad Bar & Buffet

Menu for May 11, 2010
Lunch
Tossed Salads
Azteca Taco w/ Turkey
Monterey Blue w/ Peanuts (Vegetarian)
Won Ton Chicken Happiness
Caesar Salad Asiago (Non-Vegetarian)

Prepared Salads
Tuna Tarragon
Baja Bean & Cilantro (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Spicy Southwestern Pasta (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Joan's Broccoli Madness (Non-Vegetarian)
Provencal Green Bean & Potato (Vegan)

Soups
Deep Kettle House Chili (Low-Fat)
Old Fashion Vegetable (Low-Fat, Vegetarian)
Cream of Mushroom (Non-Vegetarian)
U.S. Senate Bean w/ Smoked Ham
Big Chunk Chicken Noodle (Low-Fat)
Classical Minestrone (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Classic Shrimp Bisque
Chicken Dijon (Reduced Sodium)
Texas Longhorn Beef Chili

Bakery
Wildly Blue Blueberry Muffin
Buttermilk Cornbread (Low-Fat)
Chocolate Brownie Muffin
Apple Cinnamon Bran Muffin (96% Fat-Free)
Quattro Formaggio Focaccia

Hot Pastas & Kitchen Favorites
Penne Arrabbiatta (Vegetarian)
4 Cheese Alfredo (Vegetarian)
Macaroni & Cheese (Vegetarian)

Desserts
Vanilla Pudding
Gelatin (Fat-Free)


Dinner
Tossed Salads
Azteca Taco w/ Turkey
Monterey Blue w/ Peanuts (Vegetarian)
Won Ton Chicken Happiness
Caesar Salad Asiago (Non-Vegetarian)

Prepared Salads
Tuna Tarragon
Baja Bean & Cilantro (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Spicy Southwestern Pasta (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Joan's Broccoli Madness (Non-Vegetarian)
Provencal Green Bean & Potato (Vegan)

Soups
Deep Kettle House Chili (Low-Fat)
Old Fashion Vegetable (Low-Fat, Vegetarian)
Cream of Mushroom (Non-Vegetarian)
U.S. Senate Bean w/ Smoked Ham
Big Chunk Chicken Noodle (Low-Fat)
Classical Minestrone (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Classic Shrimp Bisque
Chicken Dijon (Reduced Sodium)
Texas Longhorn Beef Chili

Bakery
Wildly Blue Blueberry Muffin
Buttermilk Cornbread (Low-Fat)
Chocolate Brownie Muffin
Apple Cinnamon Bran Muffin (96% Fat-Free)
Quattro Formaggio Focaccia

Hot Pastas & Kitchen Favorites
Penne Arrabbiatta (Vegetarian)
4 Cheese Alfredo (Vegetarian)
Macaroni & Cheese (Vegetarian)

Desserts
Vanilla Pudding
Gelatin (Fat-Free)
Apple Cobbler

[Rover]

For the restaurant, I might suggest something like a Balthazar's in New York City. It is a classic restaurant that serves both locals and tourists equally well and becomes a destination. Offers light to full meals, but all of high quality. But, it also has a semi attached bakery/confectionary which draws people to come sit in the afternoon or late and to drink coffee/cappucino/expresso and have a nice dolce to go along with it. It also does a robust carry-out from its bakery too, so it would serve the offices, take home for unique deserts, and tourists stopping for an afternoon tea equally well.

Balthazar Restaurant :: Home

[Euphoria]

No Starbucks please. Go with some place like Vintage or, as much as I hate to say it, Coffee Slingers (I hate CS but they have a good product).

We have several good shops in OKC that can, and do, serve better product than anything you'll find at a starbucks.

[metro]

Balthazar's Bakery is amazing! I'd definitely welcome them to OKC.

[Rover]

I'll bet the LaBaguette people could develop a faux Balthazars and do a great job with it. They are already at the Colcord. They could do a modern rendition of the decor to fit in with the modern Devon tower look and feel.

For the cafe, knock off Brooklyn Diner, at a lower price point for Oklahoma. Great breakfasts. The BEST mac and cheese, burgers, dogs, salads, etc.

And at the street level...5 Guys burgers.....Simple...totally tasty burgers, limited menu and at great prices.


And while we are at it, can we add a Le Train Bleu over at the RR Station.