Tulsans finally getting it?

[progressiveboy]

I simply do not understand the need by so many in Oklahoma City for people in Tulsa to think OKC is the most wonderful place on earth. Here’s a hint, most people live in a city because they like the place for whatever reason, and don’t live in another city because their perception is that the other city is somehow a lesser location. People in Oklahoma City are going to almost always prefer Oklahoma City, and people in Tulsa will not. And you know what, that’s ok.

As for some of the statements in this thread, they are way off base. Tulsa is not exactly “being left in the dust”, Tulsa like almost all cities in this economy is having budget issues. When the economy recovers so will tax revenues. The BOK Center is a huge hit. Tulsa’s version of the Skirvin had it’s grand reopening last week. We have two other hotels on the way downtown, one a new high rise hotel across the street from the BOK Center. Tulsa’s newly redone and expanded convention center is due to be completed within the next month. The new baseball stadium opens in April. There are two downtown residential conversion projects under construction right now with another on the way and a new addition to the Tribune building due to start construction soon. And that’s just downtown.

. The Arkansas River is still seeing huge improvements; The Riverparks reconstruction is nearing completion. The Aquarium is expanding again, Riverspirit casino is about to start a hotel tower, Riverwalk Crossing II is nearly finished along with a residential section.

As for roads, work is starting. Tulsa is starting on construction right now on it’s half billion dollar plan to rebuilt streets and the state is finally spending real money to fix the highways in the Tulsa area. In other areas Tulsa has a brand new Hard Rock casino. TPS has spend hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade schools in the last ten years or so and it’s about to float the largest school bond issue in state history. OU and OSU in Tulsa along with TU have had huge expansions.

I think this is just mostly news you miss because of badly biased and anti-Tulsa media, specifically (really only) the Oklahoman as evidenced by that idiotic blog by the fawning OKC cheerleader Lackmeyer.

That same Oklahoman has sold you a turkey of a Maps plan, the only truly worthwhile project is the transit part, that’s going to be a huge game changer. But you need to really beware that Core to Shore with the park and convention center don’t suck all the momentum and business out of Bricktown by dumping millions of square feet of retail and office space on the market, a market that already is going to struggle with the addition of the Devon tower.

I think "generally speaking" that folks in OKC are starting to wise up and they could really care less what Tulsa thinks of them. Tulsa is really starting to have a major inferiority complex about what others think about them. It's very child like and reeks of major insecurity on Tulsa's part. With all the changes in OKC and the passage of MAPS 3 I have hope for my former hometown and really believe it will surpass Tulsa and will most likely be "left in the dust".

[Swake2]

I'll attempt to answer your questions while addressing soem of what soonerguru has posted...



I a not sure who you were talking to but most I know were not going to vote for Taylor again despite having voted for her initially. But really its all speculation since she chose not to run again. I am not sure she would have been re-elected.

Bartlett has basically received a city that is in disrepair and dealing with major corruption problems. However, he is part of the normal Tulsa political class so for this reason I am very skeptical of him changing much if anything. It is unfortunate the choices for mayor were so poor...but then again I could be and hope I am surprised in the long run with Bartlett's performance...

Sooner is correct if by factionalism he means major political factions (ie left and right) essentially being unwilling to work with eachother, which is what Tulsa has been dealing with for 15 years now. You have one group that wants a tax on everything and another group that will oppose any hint of any tax increase no matter how noble or justified it may be.

Actually people in the suburbs care about downtown tulsa, I do especially, since I work there, but most folks I talk to are pleased with the BOK center but very disappointed with the disjointed manner in which Tulsa has chosen to develop land within the IDL.

Sooner is exactly right about the elite class ruling tulsa and awarding major contracts to buddies/friends/family despite it costing the tax payers huge sums of money. Bartlett is part of this class and as a result viewed with skepticism (at least from me and many others I talk with).

Sooner is again right on the tax issues, but keep in mind many people are very skeptical given the corruption issues that have erupted in Tulsa over the past decade...you would be to if your money was spent/squandered/handed out in such an irresponsible manner.

I was hoping we'd have a couple of very different mayoral candidates pop up for Tulsa this time around, we did not. That means we have at least 4 more years (again I'm a bartlett skeptic, i could be proven wrong) before the city is truly moved in the right direction. I hope I am wrong as my wife and I both work in downtown Tulsa and love visiting some of the restaurants/pubs downtown. But the city has a long way to go to catchup with OKC or even make the forward progress on the scale OKC has seen the last 15 years.

Taylor's approval rating were above 60%, no one was even going to run against her.

You obviously have learned all you know of Tulsa from a particular single talk radio station. The KFAQ, Bates, Medlock club is a nutty little rightwing fringe movement, but KFAQ's rating are poor and their followers numbers aren't large.

From what I read here about Oklahoma City's talk radio, you can all imagine what it would be like to only know of Oklahoma City what is spewed on talk radio.

[mugofbeer]

I simply do not understand the need by so many in Oklahoma City for people in Tulsa to think OKC is the most wonderful place on earth. Here’s a hint, most people live in a city because they like the place for whatever reason, and don’t live in another city because their perception is that the other city is somehow a lesser location. People in Oklahoma City are going to almost always prefer Oklahoma City, and people in Tulsa will not. And you know what, that’s ok.

As for some of the statements in this thread, they are way off base. Tulsa is not exactly “being left in the dust”, Tulsa like almost all cities in this economy is having budget issues. When the economy recovers so will tax revenues. The BOK Center is a huge hit. Tulsa’s version of the Skirvin had it’s grand reopening last week. We have two other hotels on the way downtown, one a new high rise hotel across the street from the BOK Center. Tulsa’s newly redone and expanded convention center is due to be completed within the next month. The new baseball stadium opens in April. There are two downtown residential conversion projects under construction right now with another on the way and a new addition to the Tribune building due to start construction soon. And that’s just downtown.

. The Arkansas River is still seeing huge improvements; The Riverparks reconstruction is nearing completion. The Aquarium is expanding again, Riverspirit casino is about to start a hotel tower, Riverwalk Crossing II is nearly finished along with a residential section.

As for roads, work is starting. Tulsa is starting on construction right now on it’s half billion dollar plan to rebuilt streets and the state is finally spending real money to fix the highways in the Tulsa area. In other areas Tulsa has a brand new Hard Rock casino. TPS has spend hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade schools in the last ten years or so and it’s about to float the largest school bond issue in state history. OU and OSU in Tulsa along with TU have had huge expansions.

I think this is just mostly news you miss because of badly biased and anti-Tulsa media, specifically (really only) the Oklahoman as evidenced by that idiotic blog by the fawning OKC cheerleader Lackmeyer.

That same Oklahoman has sold you a turkey of a Maps plan, the only truly worthwhile project is the transit part, that’s going to be a huge game changer. But you need to really beware that Core to Shore with the park and convention center don’t suck all the momentum and business out of Bricktown by dumping millions of square feet of retail and office space on the market, a market that already is going to struggle with the addition of the Devon tower.

Its more response to some pretty tacky comments from Tulsa folks about the recent MAPS3 approval. Didn't say Tulsa was being left in our dust, saying Tulsa should be more concerned about being left in our dust. Your "Turkey" of a MAPS plan is short sigted and pretty much what was said about the original MAPS and the canals and river dams. They've become extremely successful as will the projects in MAPS3. BTW - LOVE the BOK Center. Its a great asset to Tulsa. MAPS is momentum. You have to keep the momentum going and OKC did.

[Doug Loudenback]

* * * I think this is just mostly news you miss because of badly biased and anti-Tulsa media, specifically (really only) the Oklahoman as evidenced by that idiotic blog by the fawning OKC cheerleader Lackmeyer.

That same Oklahoman has sold you a turkey of a Maps plan, the only truly worthwhile project is the transit part, that’s going to be a huge game changer. But you need to really beware that Core to Shore with the park and convention center don’t suck all the momentum and business out of Bricktown by dumping millions of square feet of retail and office space on the market, a market that already is going to struggle with the addition of the Devon tower.

Daaam! You cannot possibly know how very much appreciated your enlightenment means to the likes of us hapless fools who go around believing everything that the Oklahoman has to say, particularly by the likes of its fawning OKC cheerleader Steve Lackmeyer and/or the Oklahoman's turkey-hawking ownership/management which has sold us the bill of goods known as Maps 3 ... or the March 4 Ford Center vote ... or Maps for Kids ... or Maps. You are so persuasive that, suddenly, we realize now how we are going to have to struggle and deal with the challenge of a lifetime as the result of the Devon Tower and the millions of square feet of retail and office space which, as you say, is going to be dumped on our downtown market.

Where were you when we needed you? Now that our eyes are opened, we are only left to wipe the drool off of our faces and look at ourselves in the mirror and see with horror the hopeless and empty eyes that are ours to behold ... now that we see that the Bricktown canal was a horrible mistake, that the Oklahoma River changes meant nothing at all, that the Bricktown Ballpark could just have well not been built when a perfectly fine old park at the fairgrounds would have done just as well, and that the same could be said for the other capital improvement projects which we as voters have been led by the nose to build over all these years since 1993. We know now, by your help (though it comes too late to save us), that we would have been ever so much better off by following your wisdom (had we known of it), and, of course, by following Tulsa's example. Little did we know.

Pray, tell more.

[Doug Loudenback]

From what I read here about Oklahoma City's talk radio, you can all imagine what it would be like to only know of Oklahoma City what is spewed on talk radio.

Does Tulsa have radio stations?

[Steve]

swake, clearly you're not on board with the poll results indicating you're suppposed to be trashing Wichita now, and not Oklahoma City.

[kevinpate]

Daaam! You cannot possibly know how very much appreciated your enlightenment means to the likes of us hapless fools who go around believing everything that the Oklahoman has to say, particularly by the likes of its fawning OKC cheerleader Steve Lackmeyer and/or the Oklahoman's turkey-hawking ownership/management which has sold us the bill of goods known as Maps 3 ... or the March 4 Ford Center vote ... or Maps for Kids ... or Maps. You are so persuasive that, suddenly, we realize now how we are going to have to struggle and deal with the challenge of a lifetime as the result of the Devon Tower and the millions of square feet of retail and office space which, as you say, is going to be dumped on our downtown market.

Where were you when we needed you? Now that our eyes are opened, we are only left to wipe the drool off of our faces and look at ourselves in the mirror and see with horror the hopeless and empty eyes that are ours to behold ... now that we see that the Bricktown canal was a horrible mistake, that the Oklahoma River changes meant nothing at all, that the Bricktown Ballpark could just have well not been built when a perfectly fine old park at the fairgrounds would have done just as well, and that the same could be said for the other capital improvement projects which we as voters have been led by the nose to build over all these years since 1993. We know now, by your help (though it comes too late to save us), that we would have been ever so much better off by following your wisdom (had we known of it), and, of course, by following Tulsa's example. Little did we know.

Pray, tell more.

Anyone else just get a slight shiver down the spine and thank god da Dawg wasn't one of those campaigning on the NTM side of the Q?

[Steve]

[warreng88]

From the Tulsanow.org website:

Fotd, 12/12/09, 1:24pm

"Face it, had Tim McVeigh not lit the match, downtown OKC would have never ignited to the degree it has....those first Federal funds for Murrah Memorial got the ball rolling. Now, watch how Fed funds help New Orleans retain a vibrant city core especially with all those poor people washed out of their population."

So much class over there.

[proud2Bsooner]

MAPS1 happened prior to the bombing, and I would hardly call the additon of a memorial a large infusion. The comparison to N.O. is laughable. The Tulsa envy is real, not imagined. The belief that Tulsa thinks it is better, and always has been better, is also real.

But it doesn't matter. We have surpassed them, and will continue. MAPS3 puts them probably 20 years behind us, so we should get over their nasty little comments.

[Swake2]

swake, clearly you're not on board with the poll results indicating you're suppposed to be trashing Wichita now, and not Oklahoma City.

What a hack. Any other newspaper in the United States and you would be fired for posting the kind crap you do.

And I have had a consistent message about Maps3, I just very rarely ever post anything here becuase it's this site is so hostile to anything about Tulsa.

BTW, your inflammatory items from TulsaNow are almost entirely from one single poster (who has several handles, he's usually FOTD these days) and is just a well known flamer on everything. He's not any different when talking about anything Tulsa is doing. He's just an old stoner deadhead, FOTD is "Friend of the Devil", who has too much time on his hands. His political leanings are simple, he's anti capitalist, anti Oklahoma, anti liquor and very pro poor people and marijuana.

[Doug Loudenback]

* * * And I have had a consistent message about Maps3, I just very rarely ever post anything here becuase it's this site is so hostile to anything about Tulsa.* * *

As of your above message, 143 too many.

[Martin]

swake2... let's cool it with the personal attacks. -M

[Swake2]

I think that cuts both ways, don't you?

I'm done here. You think there's hostility from Tulsa to Oklahoma City? Good god, look at what is posted on this site on anything to do with Tulsa. There's far more hostility on the west end of the Turnpike.

This is why I so seldom post anything here. It was a mistake. An education on anything positive about the other city in Oklahoma is something that very few on this site are at all interested in.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm done here.

Toodles.

[Midtowner]

The big brother/little brother debate is eternal and there is no satisfying conclusion for either side. I cringe when I see these sorts of threads. MAPS was right for OKC, let Tulsa worry about what's right for Tulsa.

Inter-forum wars are ugly and pointless.

[sgt. pepper]

one a new high rise hotel across the street from the BOK Center.dose anyone know what this is?

[mmonroe]

finally...

[fuzzytoad]

Inter-forum wars are ugly and pointless.

They are.

However, I don't really see many Tulsans on this forum waging war. Quite the opposite.

As a matter of fact, the mood around here towards Anyone who doesn't agree with the OKCTalk collective is getting increasingly hostile.

I saw 2 or 3 people who were trying to contribute to the forum chased off because they dared to have a differing opinion about MAPS and I see a Tulsan here run off because an opinion on a news article.

I hope the way you guys treat people on this forum isn't the way you treat them in real life, otherwise I can't imagine OKC being a place anyone would want to live in.

[mmonroe]

Honestly.. I wish Tulsa would get the ball rolling, then i'd have another place to go visit and enjoy. Dallas is a long drive and not as fun anymore. I love OKC, but you can only visit bricktown 300 times before it starts to get boring.

[warreng88]

one a new high rise hotel across the street from the BOK Center.
dose anyone know what this is?

There is another thread in the Tulsa forum talking about this. Here is the link:

http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa-suburbs...ok-center.html

[Midtowner]

Believe it or not, I've been on the wrong side of the collective (many moons ago) and lived to tell the tale. I'm not sure who the two or three folks you're referring to are, but stating your opinion and disagreeing on something doesn't mean you have to be contentious and abusive. If those two or three folks you're referring to are the same folks I'm thinking about, they were not banned because they disagreed. They were banned for disagreeing disagreeably.

It seems that the line between what constitutes a personal attack and what constitutes spirited argument should be bright and bold.... but I guess for some, it isn't. Here's a crash course:

This is okay:

Originally Posted by Doug Loudenback View Post
Daaam! You cannot possibly know how very much appreciated your enlightenment means to the likes of us hapless fools who go around believing everything that the Oklahoman has to say, particularly by the likes of its fawning OKC cheerleader Steve Lackmeyer and/or the Oklahoman's turkey-hawking ownership/management which has sold us the bill of goods known as Maps 3 ... or the March 4 Ford Center vote ... or Maps for Kids ... or Maps. You are so persuasive that, suddenly, we realize now how we are going to have to struggle and deal with the challenge of a lifetime as the result of the Devon Tower and the millions of square feet of retail and office space which, as you say, is going to be dumped on our downtown market.

Where were you when we needed you? Now that our eyes are opened, we are only left to wipe the drool off of our faces and look at ourselves in the mirror and see with horror the hopeless and empty eyes that are ours to behold ... now that we see that the Bricktown canal was a horrible mistake, that the Oklahoma River changes meant nothing at all, that the Bricktown Ballpark could just have well not been built when a perfectly fine old park at the fairgrounds would have done just as well, and that the same could be said for the other capital improvement projects which we as voters have been led by the nose to build over all these years since 1993. We know now, by your help (though it comes too late to save us), that we would have been ever so much better off by following your wisdom (had we known of it), and, of course, by following Tulsa's example. Little did we know.

Note that the post is full of facts which are being contrasted against another individuals views. This is argument, not personal attacks. If when confronted with facts, said individual feels a little dumb, then that little sad feeling is called losing the argument.

For the record, swake's now deleted attacks against Doug, NOT ok.

The line should be very easy to see, but for some, I guess it's just not.

[Matt]

I think "generally speaking" that folks in OKC are starting to wise up and they could really care less what Tulsa thinks of them.

[fuzzytoad]

Believe it or not, I've been on the wrong side of the collective (many moons ago) and lived to tell the tale. I'm not sure who the two or three folks you're referring to are, but stating your opinion and disagreeing on something doesn't mean you have to be contentious and abusive. If those two or three folks you're referring to are the same folks I'm thinking about, they were not banned because they disagreed. They were banned for disagreeing disagreeably.

I don't know if they were banned or not. I wasn't talking about the people who flat-out attacked other users because of union nonsense.

I meant the ones who were actively contributing to the forum, or at least trying to. Until they gave up in frustration.

[Midtowner]

I don't know if they were banned or not. I wasn't talking about the people who flat-out attacked other users because of union nonsense.

I meant the ones who were actively contributing to the forum, or at least trying to. Until they gave up in frustration.

Then I have no earthly idea who you are talking about.