MTP Launches GOTV Campaign VOLUNTEER FOR YES MAPS NOW

[andy157]

I'm perfectly chill. Don't be so sensitive. And remember, you -- just like me -- are a guest on this site. It's not your own private soapbox.

I'm sensitive? Thats classic. I ask you 4 simple honest questions, your the one that spunoff on some off the wall b.s. rant about equal time.

You seem to have your soapboxes confused. This is a Public forum not a private forum. There is nothing private about this forum with the exception of names and personal information, but they don't have to be, but it's an option.

Now, with that in mind I will agree with you, this is not my own private soapbox. What it is however is a public place where anybody with proper authorization from Pete can voice their views from atop a soapbox on any issue they choose, bar some, whether you like them or not. So until I decide I no longer wish to voice my views in public from atop a soapbox, or until my actions would cause Pete to withdraw his authorization, thats what I will do. Remember that.

[PLANSIT]

I'm sensitive? Thats classic. I ask you 4 simple honest questions, your the one that spunoff on some off the wall b.s. rant about equal time.

You seem to have your soapboxes confused. This is a Public forum not a private forum. There is nothing private about this forum with the exception of names and personal information, but they don't have to be, but it's an option.

Now, with that in mind I will agree with you, this is not my own private soapbox. What it is however is a public place where anybody with proper authorization from Pete can voice their views from atop a soapbox on any issue they choose, bar some, whether you like them or not. So until I decide I no longer wish to voice my views in public from atop a soapbox, or until my actions would cause Pete to withdraw his authorization, thats what I will do. Remember that.

Actually, this isn't a public forum, for the very reason's you've stated. Things like freedom of speech, etc. are not a right on this forum. If administration/moderation doesn't like what you are saying for any reason whatsoever, they can delete it. Generally, as long as people are respectful, all perspectives are welcome. Only when people troll or become unruly are they banned/suspended.

[soonerguru]

I'm sensitive? Thats classic. I ask you 4 simple honest questions, your the one that spunoff on some off the wall b.s. rant about equal time.

You seem to have your soapboxes confused. This is a Public forum not a private forum. There is nothing private about this forum with the exception of names and personal information, but they don't have to be, but it's an option.

Now, with that in mind I will agree with you, this is not my own private soapbox. What it is however is a public place where anybody with proper authorization from Pete can voice their views from atop a soapbox on any issue they choose, bar some, whether you like them or not. So until I decide I no longer wish to voice my views in public from atop a soapbox, or until my actions would cause Pete to withdraw his authorization, thats what I will do. Remember that.

No. By its very nature it's a private forum, as it is owned by a private person. We are posting here until he decides otherwise, but we do not have "freedom of speech" in the classic definition.

I find it hard to understand why you seem to have trouble grasping the concept that this board is owned and operated by MAPS supporters, and, at least until your obnoxious anti-MAPS brethren arrived here to do some politicking, is a forum dominated by supporters of MAPS. I suspect this is still the case, with a few noisy exceptions.

[kevinpate]

... the reason we are pointing out that Blazerfan is Steve Hunt is because he has posted to this site under multiple usernames in the past and been banned on more than one occasion for personal attacks.

Missed this earlier. Dinna realize the forum multi-personality angle. Clarification appreciated.

[Urban Pioneer]

And back on volunteering subject, we have brought on several key constituency groups yesterday. The fieldwork is working volunteers!

Put some time in today. I can use you to help walk the precincts.

[andy157]

Actually, this isn't a public forum, for the very reason's you've stated. Things like freedom of speech, etc. are not a right on this forum. If administration/moderation doesn't like what you are saying for any reason whatsoever, they can delete it. Generally, as long as people are respectful, all perspectives are welcome. Only when people troll or become unruly are they banned/suspended.

You say delete, I said withdraw authorization. Delete is the more correct term. I agree OKCTALK is Pete's private property. By public I meant everything posted here could be seen by anyone who happen to be lurking around. Maybe soonerguru and I missed each other attempted points we were trying to make. Who knows>

[andy157]

No. By its very nature it's a private forum, as it is owned by a private person. We are posting here until he decides otherwise, but we do not have "freedom of speech" in the classic definition.

I find it hard to understand why you seem to have trouble grasping the concept that this board is owned and operated by MAPS supporters, and, at least until your obnoxious anti-MAPS brethren arrived here to do some politicking, is a forum dominated by supporters of MAPS. I suspect this is still the case, with a few noisy exceptions.

I grasp the concept of how this site operates, and who owns it, and believe I have a pretty good handle on how he views MAPS as well.

I'm also grasping the idea that you have a problem with views or opinions the don't fall in line with yours. I assume Pete looks at things differently than you. If the day comes where he begins to think as you do, you can rest assured, we anti-maps folks will all be gone. But until then I guess we'll all have to deal with it.

[soonerguru]

I grasp the concept of how this site operates, and who owns it, and believe I have a pretty good handle on how he views MAPS as well.

I'm also grasping the idea that you have a problem with views or opinions the don't fall in line with yours. I assume Pete looks at things differently than you. If the day comes where he begins to think as you do, you can rest assured, we anti-maps folks will all be gone. But until then I guess we'll all have to deal with it.

We all look forward to that day, but Pete won't have anything to do with it. The only reason these trolls are here is to politick, and they're using this pro-MAPS forum as their soapbox. I'm sure they'll move along after they lose on Tuesday.

[soonerguru]

Urban, I agree and would encourage those of BOTH sides to become as active as they can. I want every registered voter's voice to be heard (even though I am in the No camp, non-related to the Police/Fire stance)

When only about half of the residents in OKC are even registered to vote and voter turnout for a single-issue, local election is typically low (15% mol, which translates to about 7.5% of the residents voting), makes it difficult to say that the "entire community" has spoken or a "mandate" has been served (no matter which side is victorious, by whatever margin). The actual decision is actually decided by a small minority of the citizens.

The apathy of the citizens/voters is, well...pathetic

Even if you can't be active, at the very least, be as informed as you can, make your decision based on the verifiable facts and VOTE on Dec 8th.

I will get down off my soapbox (at least until the next post):

Larry,

If I'm not mistaken, you favor a lot of the projects, you believe the projections are sound, and you acknowledge what other MAPS have done for our city. Why again are you in the 'NO' camp?

[Larry OKC]

Larry,

If I'm not mistaken, you favor a lot of the projects, you believe the projections are sound, and you acknowledge what other MAPS have done for our city. Why again are you in the 'NO' camp?

Happy to clarify...I believe the revenue projections are sound, not the cost projections, but mainly because of the Ballot/Ordinance language. If that wasn't enough (and it is), the following have done nothing to bring me over to the Yes side:

Because to date the things they said were going to happen with MAPS 3, largely haven't happened (guess they changed their intent?) That doesn't bode well for the trust some have expressed.

Because of the nagging unanswered questions about some of the projects.

Because of the Chamber's apparent need to inflate the economic impact of MAPS. Not only do the numbers keep going up by a billion or two each time, they are doing so in very short order. The most disturbing part is including things that had nothing to do with MAPS in their E.I. (as Steve pointed out in his blog, the Bombing Memorial and the I-40 relocation).

Because of the Chambers mis-named "Facts" site.

Because of what I see as a blatant disregard that the City isn't supposed to campaign yet the Mayor has an entire program devoted exclusively to the pro-side of MAPS on his "Mayor's Magazine" program that has been in fairly heavy rotation it seems.

Because the Mayor is the head of the Chambers pro-MAPS campaign (he isn't acting as a private citizen, his title is attached on every flier and commercial I have seen).

Because I saw the Mayor decline the right of the Citizens to speak ("advocate" for or against) the proposal in a public Council Meeting.

Because of the continued misleading, spin, half-truths and yes, in at least one case, a flat out lie that was in Sunday's MAPS 3 flier. Not buried in the text, but in a headline spanning 2 pages.

[BoulderSooner]

Happy to clarify...I believe the revenue projections are sound, not the cost projections, but mainly because of the Ballot/Ordinance language. If that wasn't enough (and it is), the following have done nothing to bring me over to the Yes side:

Because to date the things they said were going to happen with MAPS 3, largely haven't happened (guess they changed their intent?) That doesn't bode well for the trust some have expressed.

Because of the nagging unanswered questions about some of the projects.

Because of the Chamber's apparent need to inflate the economic impact of MAPS. Not only do the numbers keep going up by a billion or two each time, they are doing so in very short order. The most disturbing part is including things that had nothing to do with MAPS in their E.I. (as Steve pointed out in his blog, the Bombing Memorial and the I-40 relocation).

Because of the Chambers mis-named "Facts" site.

Because of what I see as a blatant disregard that the City isn't supposed to campaign yet the Mayor has an entire program devoted exclusively to the pro-side of MAPS on his "Mayor's Magazine" program that has been in fairly heavy rotation it seems.

Because the Mayor is the head of the Chambers pro-MAPS campaign (he isn't acting as a private citizen, his title is attached on every flier and commercial I have seen).

Because I saw the Mayor decline the right of the Citizens to speak ("advocate" for or against) the proposal in a public Council Meeting.

Because of the continued misleading, spin, half-truths and yes, in at least one case, a flat out lie that was in Sunday's MAPS 3 flier. Not buried in the text, but in a headline spanning 2 pages.

can we sum this up as Distrust of the council??

[iron76hd]

Urban Pioneer. Are the NOT THIS MAPS signs the Police caught you destroying yesterday part of your great effort canvassing the neighborhood?

I'd really like to hear more about your opinion of those destroying signs. I didn't expect anything less. Classic. LOL

Urban Pioneer quotes....
I am not going to lower myself to your level
Learn to respect blog etiquette
Guerrilla style in campaigning is often a term used to describe a motivated volunteer base. Not gorilla, lol. If Yes people want to win, they have to be as motivated as the opposition.
Just found three of our signs destroyed. Immediately put up three more. MTP has been on the sign plantation all day!
You make me laugh Iron. It amuses me that you think you know the definition of "class".
A solid volunteer day out on the streets.

[iron76hd]

can we sum this up as Distrust of the council??

Yup. Vote NO!

[betts]

I for one am going to trust the council. I think MAPS has too much potential for the city to not trust the council. Paranoia creates stagnation. I'll watch what happens if this MAPS passes, and if the council doesn't do what they say they're going to do, I'll vote against them and campaign against them. Same thing goes for the mayor. But, I have a lot more to lose by voting "no" than by voting "yes".

I love what MAPS projects have done for the city. I want to continue to work to make this a better place in which to live, a better place for my family to visit, a better place for visitors to visit. I vote for moving forward, for mass transit, a park, and all the other things that will be so very good for my city.

[iron76hd]

I would have trouble voting YES for a project that is going to have to be subsidized by my TAXES every year.

This is not just ONE project it's a list of them in that boat. No thanks. If we are going to keep "SPENDING" momentum going they better find a better or shorter list of projects.

[Kerry]

I would have trouble voting YES for a project that is going to have to be subsidized by my TAXES every year.

LOL - this coming from someone who's daily bread is the result of taxation. Just where do you think the money in your paycheck comes from?

[iron76hd]

WHAT? So now your Police Protection and my paycheck are just a worthless "project"? Stay off the funny Kool-Aid. Your talking crazy....
and by the way....my daily bread...I PAID for that too.

[betts]

And you think you're not subsidizing roads every day? We're subsidizing our policemen and firemen every day. Every single thing in the city is paid for by the city, and by taxes. If you want to live in a city without amenities, that's your choice, clearly. Personally, I want a nice city, with decent mass transit, decent parks, more things to do. If not for the first MAPS, this place would be a barren wasteland, which is pretty much what it was when I moved here. Our mayor at the time had the vision to see that it could be better and a lot of people actually voted against getting better. They didn't want to subsidize the canal, the Brick, the Ford Center, the Art Museum, the Civic Center, the public library. Luckily, the people who knew that we had to get better or risk becoming a dying city won.

Now we have the chance to take another giant leap....to try and become a Tier 2 city. It won't happen if MAPS doesn't pass, so I'm voting, as a citizen, to help my city take that leap, because I know it will be good for me and the citizens I'm sharing this city with and, it gives me a chance of luring my children back here so someday it will be a better place for my as of now theoretical grandchildren to live in. I'm not so short sighted or selfish to think that those few pennies will do me anywhere near the good that our collective pennies will do for our city.

[iron76hd]

I agree Kerry. Good idea. We don't need a Police Deparment or Fire Department that has to be subsidized. Throw them all out in the street. Think of how much money we'll save!! Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.

[iron76hd]

And you think you're not subsidizing roads every day?

Are you kidding me? This angle is a joke right?

Ok here you go...

Necessities

Roads
Bridges
Police
Fire
Water
Electric
City Services

Just to name a few

NON necessities

White water rapids
Rail System
Senior Aquatic Centers
new buildings at fair grounds
70 acre Central Park
Convention Center #3

now you get it?

[Kerry]

Are you kidding me? This angle is a joke right?

Ok here you go...

Necessities

Roads
Bridges
Police
Fire
Water
Electric
City Services

Just to name a few

NON necessities

White water rapids
Rail System
Senior Aquatic Centers
new buildings at fair grounds
70 acre Central Park
Convention Center #3

now you get it?

Nice list. Now if only we had some way outside of traditional government funding to pay for the non-necessities. Something like a temporary 1 cent sales tax would do it.

[betts]

Iron, how do you think we pay for what you consider necessities? Think there are any sales taxes collected at the Ford Center, the Brick, Bricktown and all the development that has occurred as a result of MAPS? Think any of the tourists that now come to Oklahoma City (and wouldn't have been caught dead here before the first MAPS) help pay your salary? Do you think anyone has gotten a job because of the first MAPS that allowed him or her to buy things that pay the sales taxes that pay your salary?

Do you think the billions of dollars of private development that are likely to occur as a result of a streetcar system and the convention center might generate sales taxes that help pay your salary? Think any of the increased number of people who would come to a bigger convention center might spend money in Oklahoma City that would help pay your salary?

[OSUFan]

Larry,

Does it bother you the union heads are campaigning on the tax payer dime?

[Midtowner]

You'll never work in this town again after your massive failure.

This is an interesting statement. Why would you say this?

[onthestrip]

Are you kidding me? This angle is a joke right?

Ok here you go...

Necessities

Roads
Bridges
Police
Fire
Water
Electric
City Services

Just to name a few

NON necessities

White water rapids
Rail System
Senior Aquatic Centers
new buildings at fair grounds
70 acre Central Park
Convention Center #3

now you get it?

Once AGAIN, all of those needs were addressed in a bond issue that passed in '07.

Now, do you GET it?