Sonic Corporation

[dankrutka]

^^^^

"McDonald's has been on a health kick lately. It's been promoting its grilled chicken salads and recently added breakfast sandwiches made with egg whites. Sonic, on the other hand, is crediting no small part of the success of its most recent quarter to its milkshakes and new Cheesecake Bites. Consumers may talk about eating healthier, but they do something else when they're eating out. We're seeing this in the chains that continue to do well. Chipotle Mexican Grill's (CMG) chunky burritos aren't healthy. Cheesecake Factory (CAKE) throws portion control to the wind with entrees that could feed entire families.

Sonic, by the same token, is merrily rolling along, blending up peanut-butter-and-bacon shakes. (Yes, that's a thing.)"

That's a little depressing to read. I am always looking for healthier, low calorie options at fast food restaurants when I'm on the run and Sonic has few offerings. I guess I'm in the minority because the only thing I'll order at McDonald's are a strawberry/banana smoothie and the egg white delight breakfast sandwich.

[ljbab728]

I'm not surprised about the comments about McDonald's. I don't go there often but, when I do, it's to buy their traditional offerings like a Big Mac, not the new frufru offerings.

[MWCGuy]

McDonald's has proven they will sell what the people will buy. Granted they keep their junk food staples but, they are working hard to provide something for everyone. You can eat their and eat healthy if you really want to.

Subway is just as bad as McDonald's for the calories, fat content and carbs. The sandwhich is only healthy if you eat wheat/or whole grain bread, with veggies, lean meat, no cheese and no dressing. I don't very many people that can eat that way except your health food junkies. The problem with fattening foods is that our portions are way too big. You should never eat as much as we eat these days. Years ago a six inch sub or a single patty burger would fill somebody up. Now people are not full unless they eat a 12 inch sub and have two three patties on the burger.

[ljbab728]

McDonald's has proven they will sell what the people will buy. Granted they keep their junk food staples but, they are working hard to provide something for everyone. You can eat their and eat healthy if you really want to.

Subway is just as bad as McDonald's for the calories, fat content and carbs. The sandwhich is only healthy if you eat wheat/or whole grain bread, with veggies, lean meat, no cheese and no dressing. I don't very many people that can eat that way except your health food junkies. The problem with fattening foods is that our portions are way too big. You should never eat as much as we eat these days. Years ago a six inch sub or a single patty burger would fill somebody up. Now people are not full unless they eat a 12 inch sub and have two three patties on the burger.

People can do the same thing eating at home. It's a choice and nothing more. You can't force people to eat a certain way.

[bombermwc]

Not to be a downer here, but fast food eateries are there to make money. They're going to push what people buy. So if we're getting fat off of it, it's because we chose to buy it. Nobody forces anybody else to buy a Big Mac or to put 4 kinds of meat on their Subway sub. Take personal responsibility for the actions folks. If you don't want to get fat from it....shock, don't eat it! Every home has this thing in the kitchen that converts the stuff in your fridge to a meal....it's called a stove. Use it.

[OKVision4U]

I would assume Braum's limit on how far out they'll put a restaurant has more to do with quality control than anything since they are a vertically integrated company and freshness is a big concern for them. I just can't understand why they can't get their restaurants figured out. They need to be cleaner and more efficient.

Braums is beyond conservative, they are a cheap organization. Its one of the nastiest places to eat.

Why doesn't Braums build a new corporate HQ in Bricktown? ... That would be a nice start to (re-investing) in your company and bringing your "brand" to the front again.

[dankrutka]

Not to be a downer here, but fast food eateries are there to make money. They're going to push what people buy. So if we're getting fat off of it, it's because we chose to buy it. Nobody forces anybody else to buy a Big Mac or to put 4 kinds of meat on their Subway sub. Take personal responsibility for the actions folks. If you don't want to get fat from it....shock, don't eat it! Every home has this thing in the kitchen that converts the stuff in your fridge to a meal....it's called a stove. Use it.

I totally agree, but... what do you do when people show the inability to make smart health decisions? We have an epidemic in this country that is straining our health system because people are unable to make smart choices for them and their children (which is mindboggling to me) and it's affecting the entire country. Even though I generally eat healthy, the poor decisions of others affect me indirectly because of rising medical costs, etc.

I think the biggest problem is that most people do not know, or think about, what they're eating. They lack consciousness. They're not conscious that if they eat 1,200 calories at lunch, they probably need to run 3-5 miles to work the extra calories off. What would happen if there was a "sin tax" on unhealthy food? Maybe just a penny (no the dollar) tax, but these unhealthy items would be clearly marked, thus forcing people to at least consider what they're putting in their bodies. Even just requiring restaurants to list calories with food could at least help to raise consciousness and assist people in making better decisions. Anyway, I know the "sin tax" probably won't happen, but isn't unhealthy eating as destructive as smoking (which is taxed) for many people? I'm just thinking out loud so please don't make this into a huge partisan slugfest.

[dmoor82]

Braums is beyond conservative, they are a cheap organization. Its one of the nastiest places to eat.

Why doesn't Braums build a new corporate HQ in Bricktown? ... That would be a nice start to (re-investing) in your company and bringing your "brand" to the front again.

1) that's your opinion 2) Sonic already has built a new(ish) corporate hq in Brick town off of Reno Avenue.

[bombermwc]

dankrutha - I can totally appreciate that stance on the whole subject. On one hand I agree that if you tax it, it would force people to think about it. On the other hand, those of us that make good choices then also pay to have a soda. Is that terrible? Probably not, especially since I'm not going to have one often. But the more difficult side of that is the good ole' choice battle. Here in the U.S., if you choose to eat terribly and become a 400 tub-o-lard, that's your right. Unfortunately, the way the medical world is designed in the U.S., that also means we all pay for those poor choices.

What do you think about this to help with the choice incentivation? Go ahead with the use tax you mentioned (if it's >x calories for that one item)...then take it to a new level. Make the tax scale up so for every X calories over the limit, add the tax again. And if it's over other thresholds, double it, and so on. So maybe 25 cents per 50 calories up to 100, then 50 cents....remember this is per item, not for the meal. That way when you order a la carte, you still get it. Now here's the new whopper (forgive the pun) of a change.

Have the insurance companies start charging more in premiums for BMI (or some other index) over a healthy amount. AND give a premium reduction for those paying for a gym membership or can otherwise prove they are exercising.

Just some ramblings.

dmoore - I agree that Braum's is pretty crappy on the corporate side, but I actually like their burgers very much. I don't think they have the corporate staff to need a downtown location though. Their offices are pretty small in comparison to the rest of the facility up on I-35 (warehouse, store, etc). I have a friend that worked for them in the corporate office for a short time....it was not a pleasant experience either.

[OKVision4U]

1) that's your opinion 2) Sonic already has built a new(ish) corporate hq in Brick town off of Reno Avenue.

It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative. So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.

Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region. Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)

[SoonerDave]

I totally agree, but... what do you do when people show the inability to make smart health decisions? We have an epidemic in this country that is straining our health system because people are unable to make smart choices for them and their children (which is mindboggling to me) and it's affecting the entire country. Even though I generally eat healthy, the poor decisions of others affect me indirectly because of rising medical costs, etc.

I think the biggest problem is that most people do not know, or think about, what they're eating. They lack consciousness. They're not conscious that if they eat 1,200 calories at lunch, they probably need to run 3-5 miles to work the extra calories off. What would happen if there was a "sin tax" on unhealthy food? Maybe just a penny (no the dollar) tax, but these unhealthy items would be clearly marked, thus forcing people to at least consider what they're putting in their bodies. Even just requiring restaurants to list calories with food could at least help to raise consciousness and assist people in making better decisions. Anyway, I know the "sin tax" probably won't happen, but isn't unhealthy eating as destructive as smoking (which is taxed) for many people? I'm just thinking out loud so please don't make this into a huge partisan slugfest.

With all due respect, dan, we do not need a federal or state food police to start declaring "food X or food Y" to be "unhealthy," which is a fallacious notion on its face. The choice is the bad one, but whether that choice is bad or good for any one person is, in fact, dependent upon that person, not the responsibility of the government. If I have one soda a month, but run two miles a day, that soda isn't such a big deal. If I have five sodas a day, weigh 300 lbs, then that soda is more problematic - but not as problematic as the person drinking it. And we've already seen self-proclaimed health nazis like Bloomberg try stunts like this, although his steps were even more draconian - government prohibition of certain food sales - which was shot down.

And I say that as someone who's done (and continues to do) the work to eat better, having dropped a little over 70 lbs in the last couple of years. It isn't easy, and there are some foods I eat less of now than I used to, but I also understand that the notion of "unhealthy" food is just so much nonsense in an homage to the whole mantra of the "villain food theology" that has just become the defacto health gospel in the last five years. It is about the people who make the choices to eat, not the food they eat. And the folks who think they're doing something startlingly "healthy" by eating the "egg white mcmuffin" at McD's are arguably an archetype of the concept.

[SoonerDave]

It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative. So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.

Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region. Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)

I've often wondered why Braum's is so lacking and inconsistent in the management of its stores. You have newer stores that are very nice, fresh concepts, etc, that are well maintained, but some of them (not very far apart, either) look like a mess. The primary reason we hit Braum's is for the milk, and the occasional ice cream treat in the summer, but beyond that...not so much.

Don't have any insight as to their corporate organization, so can't really comment on that either way.

[shawnw]

Probably a strange request, but I wish they'd try doing standalone Fresh Markets... as a market experiment to see how it does...

[OKVision4U]

It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative. So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.

Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region. Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)

One major area that Braums must address is the steady streams of competition ( Freddies / Steak & Shake , etc ) that are now here in OKC metro. Braums has a great product that doesn't reach an audience. If they don't (double down) on a significant new branding strategy, they will be Out of Business in 10 years.

[Dustin]

they will be Out of Business in 10 years.

I don't see this ever happening to be honest. Braums is an Oklahoma staple. There would be riots in the streets if people couldn't get their Braums milk and ice cream.

[Easy180]

I don't see this ever happening to be honest. Braums is an Oklahoma staple. There would be riots in the streets if people couldn't get their Braums milk and ice cream.

Yep. People (including our family) will drive past 5 grocery stores to Braum's for milk. They make a ton of money off dairy and their little convenience store setup

[Jake]

I agree. Me and my family enjoy Braum's milk a lot. They could get by just by their tiny stores.

[dmoor82]

It is not an opinion, Braums is incredibly conservative. So much so, they miss opportunities in the market place.

Also, was referring to Braums moving their HQ to Bricktown, it would help their brands' positioning in this region. Sometimes we forget about Braum's and thats their fault. (marketing)

Ok, point taken.

[PhiAlpha]

I've often wondered why Braum's is so lacking and inconsistent in the management of its stores. You have newer stores that are very nice, fresh concepts, etc, that are well maintained, but some of them (not very far apart, either) look like a mess. The primary reason we hit Braum's is for the milk, and the occasional ice cream treat in the summer, but beyond that...not so much.

Don't have any insight as to their corporate organization, so can't really comment on that either way.

I had friends in high school that worked at one of their stores in Edmond and echoed the management issues. It's not just the management of their stores either. My company had a few oil and gas leases on their farm properties that I had to settle surface damages and other issues on. Their farm properties manager wasn't exactly on the ball with things. He was difficult to deal do to either a lack of competentence and/or knowledge of his properties. Hopefully they will figure their stuff out, despite the issues I still enjoy Braums products.

[dankrutka]

You know, bombermwc (and SoonerDave), I could see incentives working better than disincentives... So, maybe health insurance benefits (whatever would be most appropriate) for those who choose to eat healthy would be better than any taxes. Essentially, preventative care, which is part of many health systems worldwide. Now, how you you keep track of this is beyond me...

I am fully supportive of requiring all food providers to clearly label calories for any item clearly. Consumers don't have time to look up nutritional information every time they go through a drive thru, but it's easy for restaurants to do so.

[OKVision4U]

Yep. People (including our family) will drive past 5 grocery stores to Braum's for milk. They make a ton of money off dairy and their little convenience store setup

Easy180, you are 100% correct. This is the example ( they have a great product , MILK ) and many devoted customers know this. They are missing so many more customers now, than they did 10 years ago w/ new competition in the market. They are still using the same commercial from 1984. They are so slow to the consumers position, they miss them. Now, they are losing market-share, when before they weren't.

We all love their milk, but they may not be in business to sell it.

[SoonerDave]

You know, bombermwc (and SoonerDave), I could see incentives working better than disincentives... So, maybe health insurance benefits (whatever would be most appropriate) for those who choose to eat healthy would be better than any taxes. Essentially, preventative care, which is part of many health systems worldwide. Now, how you you keep track of this is beyond me...

I am fully supportive of requiring all food providers to clearly label calories for any item clearly. Consumers don't have time to look up nutritional information every time they go through a drive thru, but it's easy for restaurants to do so.

Exactly right. The problem there is that for prevention, you must create an entirely new kind of structure for pre-emptive enforcement, including things like mandating testing for expensive diseases du jour, or mandating certain drugs to "prevent" various conditions, and that's when you subtract the individual from their personal choices. A particular war I've had to fight with my GP is the use of statins; she's been trying to get me on them for years because my cholesterol used to be high (when I dropped 70 lbs, so did my cholesterol), and I simply refuse to take them (and I was bolstered by the fact that a more recent study showed there's no statistical benefit in statins for an individual with no prior history of CVD, but that's another thread). The point is that I get to make that choice, not the doctor, not the insurance company, and certainly not a theoretical "pre-emptive" government (?) health enforcement agency. What if a generation ago a "helpful" pre-emptive agency "mandated" that pregnant mothers take thalydomide at the risk of losing coverage?

At some point, the thing we all have to realize is that we live in an imperfect human community, and we all have to live to a degree with the good and bad choices of others. We could extend the notion of "their bad choices affect me adversely" argument all the way to the voting booth. We cannot optimize the process of self-government into one consisting exclusively of what someone else thinks is in my best interests.

[Dennis Heaton]

Since y'all brought it up (sort of)...how many Sonic Franchisees in OKC are from East Pakistan (is this the Bangladesh Mafia expanding into Fast-Food)?

CJ-2008-1993

[dankrutka]

Aren't there already tons of laws where someone else mandates what's in the best interest of the individual? To name one, seat belts.

[traxx]

Braums is beyond conservative, they are a cheap organization. Its one of the nastiest places to eat.

Why doesn't Braums build a new corporate HQ in Bricktown? ... That would be a nice start to (re-investing) in your company and bringing your "brand" to the front again.

Braum's is a family company. Problem is, they run it like the small company it started out as but they need to run it like a business. They need to have priorities and expectations for their stores and employees. Cleanliness and speed of service being the top two. They also need to update their marketing and commercials. They're stuck in the 1980s and look amateur and local. Taco Mayo used to have this problem but over the last 10-15 years their advertising has improved and looks professional.

I would assume that Braum's wouldn't want to move their corporate HQ to Bricktown because the corporate types would want to be near the actual operations and be able to walk out the door and be in the middle of the operations.