Convention Center

[kevinpate]

... The city will have to chip in. And there's zero funding for that.

Not really. There are ways to make a hotel happen and still stay out of the primary M3 collections. The city intends to, or perhaps the process is already underway, reimburse the use tax for what was spent on PS in the FY now ending. Best as I recall, the M3 use tax is not specifically dedicated to anything, at this time. If I do recall correctly, the use tax would generate enough to cover a 50-60 million incentive for a hotel, with money left over. Or, perhaps the city could borrow the funds, if needed sooner than can be raised via the use tax, and repay the lender from the use tax. Not suggesting that's the game plan, but it is a possibility.

[Popsy]

In my opinion at least one of the projects will be world class and that is the river project. In fact, it is almost world class right now and once completed it will be the most outstanding venue for paddle sports on the planet. The quicker it is finished the better and I say this knowing I will never use any of it.

[Tier2City]

And that space with the OG&E thingy. Maybe they'll be able to move it with MAPS 4?

[dankrutka]

Please show me where someone said an arena should only last 10 years or where the Mayor said it would last only 5 years after renovations. There is no way Stern or Cornett said those things. Might want to check you facts, LarryOKC. Arenas should last about 25 years or so. MAPs 4 might be a good time to build a world class arena with the goal of it being completed by around 2030.

[Larry OKC]

Larry, I can't imagine the Oklahoma City Arena being replaced within five years after completion of the renovations. That would be a HUGE waste of money. I don't see why it couldn't last at least twenty years, preferably longer. I don't understand why so many people push for things to constantly be torn down and replaced. As long as the building is upgraded and remodeled every five to ten years at least, I see no reason to tear it down.

Please show me where someone said an arena should only last 10 years or where the Mayor said it would last only 5 years after renovations. There is no way Stern or Cornett said those things. Might want to check you facts, LarryOKC. Arenas should last about 25 years or so. MAPs 4 might be a good time to build a world class arena with the goal of it being completed by around 2030.

So this thread can stay on topic, have responded to the above here: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...802#post442802

[HOT ROD]

I think at least 15-20 years, with periodic updates.

also, I would think we'd start talking about MAPS IV not when all of the current projects are finished, but instead when the tax is about to expire. The idea is basically to keep the tax going, because once you stop it - it may be hard to turn it back on.

[Popsy]

I keep asking myself how you can start a convention center without the hotel being ready to start at the same time. In an ideal situation doesn't the two interface and connect? With the committee wanting to move the start date up on the CC, I cannot help but think something must be in the works with a hotel group. The committee does not consist of stupid people. They are not niave as some in this forum appear to be if they think a group will come in and build a hotel without city participation. With the city having limited appeal to the average convention attendee I would not be surprised if the required participation is not more than the norm.

[Just the facts]

You aren't going to go 'conspiracy theory' on us are you Popsy. If the Convention Center group has inside info on a convention hotel group and they are using that info to push it to the front on the line then they need to share that info with everyone. I would laugh my back side off if someone on the CC group was a potential investor in a new convention hotel or proposed an existing hotel become the convention hotel.

[Popsy]

No conspiracy, just what I like to think is common sense. One does not start a convention center without the commitment of a hotel being in place. I disagree that the public has to be told until the documents are ready to be signed.

[G.Walker]

To think that the city has not been in talks with major hotel groups is absurd. And I wouldn't be surprised if they are talking with someone who has already established a hotel in Oklahoma City.

As for construction, if the cc subcommittee get their way, construction for the new CC will probably start mid 2013, and I would suspect the CC hotel would take 2 years to complete, so I would but the cc hotel starting mid 2014.

[Rover]

No conspiracy, just what I like to think is common sense. One does not start a convention center without the commitment of a hotel being in place. I disagree that the public has to be told until the documents are ready to be signed.

I doubt they will have to wait til the hotel is arranged for. It doesn't always happen that way but would be nice if it could be. The hotel developer and operator will most likely want to see the level of the CC and the city's commitment.

The public may not know about all the behind the scenes negotiations. I doubt the city wants all the potential operators to have open knowledge of how negotiations with other companies are going. It is a practical thing. Whatever is "leaked" will be done so in a strategic way, most likely. If there are multiples wanting to negotiate on the rights for the hotel the city would be wise to make a limited amount of info available while creating the pressure on individual developers to get a deal done. If there is just one, or just a few, we may not hear anything until ratification is required.

[G.Walker]

Austin doesn't stop, they have plans for new 1,035 room CC hotel, next to their convention center...this is called competition...ouch...

http://www.hospitalitybusinessnews.c...vention-center

Key qoute from article:

"We have looked carefully at many hotel sites in the Austin market and concluded this site is by far the very best with its immediate location adjacent to the Convention Center." Manchester stated, "With our many years of developing world-class hotels, we concluded our patrons would find it unpleasant during the summer heat and winter cold to walk several blocks to access important exhibits and meetings at the Convention Center.”

[Rover]

Austin doesn't stop, they have plans for new 1,035 room CC hotel, next to their convention center...this is called competition...ouch... [/I]

This is what we are saying... We are either in the game or left behind. And I don't think OKC is ready to cede its position as an emerging important American city.

[Just the facts]

Here is a list of all the convention at the Austin Convention Center for the month of July. If OKC puts together a class A facility with a kick-butt hotel, how many of these conventions do you think we can lure to OKC? Answer - none (well maybe the Soroity meeting).

City of Austin - Planning & Development Review Department
Imagine Austin Comprehensive Plan Prioritization Meeting

Texas PTA
Texas PTA Summer Convention


Four On The Floor, LLC
TXRD Lonestar Rollergirls - July

Police Activities League of Austin
PAL Summer Boxing Clinic


University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston
2011 Texas Early Childhood Leadership Summit

Austin Texas Rollergirls, Inc.
Texas Rollergirls Bout 6

Vintage Market and Event Company
City-Wide Garage Sale

City of Austin - Planning & Development Review Department
Imagine Austin Comprehensive Plan Prioritization Meeting

Department of State Health Services
Texas Behavioral Health Institute

Association of Texas Professional Educators
ATPE Summit

Delta Sigma Theta Sorority
SW Regional Conference

City of Austin - Planning & Development Review Department
Imagine Austin Comprehensive Plan Prioritization Meeting -

Four On The Floor, LLC
TXRD Lonestar Rollergirls

Body Mind Spirit Expos
Body Mind Spirit Expo

Texas Board of Law Examiners
2011 Texas Bar Examination

Texas Affiliation of Affordable Housing Providers
2011 Texas Housing Conference Luncheon

National Instruments
NIWeek 2011

Just for giggles - do you want me to post the August conventions as well, because it is more of the same.

[Rover]

Here is a list of all the convention at the Austin Convention Center for the month of July. If OKC puts together a class A facility with a kick-butt hotel, how many of these conventions do you think we can lure to OKC? Answer - none (well maybe the Soroity meeting).

City of Austin - Planning & Development Review Department
Imagine Austin Comprehensive Plan Prioritization Meeting

Texas PTA
Texas PTA Summer Convention


Four On The Floor, LLC
TXRD Lonestar Rollergirls - July

Police Activities League of Austin
PAL Summer Boxing Clinic


University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston
2011 Texas Early Childhood Leadership Summit

Austin Texas Rollergirls, Inc.
Texas Rollergirls Bout 6

Vintage Market and Event Company
City-Wide Garage Sale

City of Austin - Planning & Development Review Department
Imagine Austin Comprehensive Plan Prioritization Meeting

Department of State Health Services
Texas Behavioral Health Institute

Association of Texas Professional Educators
ATPE Summit

Delta Sigma Theta Sorority
SW Regional Conference

City of Austin - Planning & Development Review Department
Imagine Austin Comprehensive Plan Prioritization Meeting -

Four On The Floor, LLC
TXRD Lonestar Rollergirls

Body Mind Spirit Expos
Body Mind Spirit Expo

Texas Board of Law Examiners
2011 Texas Bar Examination

Texas Affiliation of Affordable Housing Providers
2011 Texas Housing Conference Luncheon

National Instruments
NIWeek 2011

Just for giggles - do you want me to post the August conventions as well, because it is more of the same.

No your point is taken. You are of the opinion it is hopeless. OKC will never be successful in the market. We cannot compete. Let us save ourselves into prosperity.

It always amazes me the people who think we can make this a great city by crawling in a hole. If we don't built it, they won't come. If we make it a crappy place to live we won't have to build streets and schools for all those people who might move here either.

Again, we are either in the game, or not.

[Just the facts]

No your point is taken. You are of the opinion it is hopeless. OKC will never be successful in the market. We cannot compete.

No, you missed the point. When you say OKC needs to compete, what are we competing for and who is the competition? 95% of the time, the only city we are competing against is Tulsa because nearly all conventions are local and/or state. There is the occaisonal regional conference but OKC is already in that rotation. Large national tradeshow conventions will never come to OKC. They will also never go to Austin, Kansas City, or Denver. Maybe once every 50 to 75 years one of those cities might see a national political convention but that is it. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a nice convention center, but we don't need a porsche to go to the grocery store.

[progressiveboy]

No your point is taken. You are of the opinion it is hopeless. OKC will never be successful in the market. We cannot compete. Let us save ourselves into prosperity.

It always amazes me the people who think we can make this a great city by crawling in a hole. If we don't built it, they won't come. If we make it a crappy place to live we won't have to build streets and schools for all those people who might move here either.

Again, we are either in the game, or not.

Agree! As I always say, the inhabitants of a city is what makes a city successful, vibrant and alive. The biggest problem I had when living in OKC was the residents for the most part just did not believe in their city. I saw a huge complacency and lack of pride. I was guilty of this as well. Now that OKC is evolving, I strongly believe the city does need a new CC along with a signature hotel for convention business. If the residents continue saying, it will never work, I just don't see this happening in OKC? Well, we have whats called a self defeating attitude and as long as one has that mind set then I see this as the biggest setback the city will encounter.

[dmoor82]

Just the facts?You sound like just opinions!

[hoya]

We need an "ignore" button.

[Pete]

We need an "ignore" button.

Go to "Settings" at the top of the page, then "Edit Ignore List" on the left side of the next screen and type in the names of anyone you want to ignore.

[HOT ROD]

I undertand what JTF is try ing to say, most conventions are local/state - Austin's cc calendar already looks like OKC's.

So what competition is OKC expecting to get into that the city isn't already in? OKC is already in the regional rotations and with a new cc we could expect to be in the comp with other Tier 2 cities (??).

Anyways, I agree we need a new cc and the voters did vote for it. But will it really be an economic boon for the city? Other, more attractive cities have tried and built bigger/better facilities than OKC's proposed (I assume) and their calendars look like Austins, which looks like OKC's ALREADY.

The argument that I assume JTF is trying to make, is there may not be a huge need to move the cc ahead in M3 calendar - we need a new cc but we dont need it now nor at the expense of higher scoring M3 projects because the convention business nationwide is in a slump and the ONLY competition would come from getting a big convention - which Chicago, Orlando, and Las Vegas have those sealed; how can OKC expect to compete against those cities when more desirable cities (Denver, KC, Austin) in OKC's league can't. ??

[Kerry]

I undertand what JTF is try ing to say, most conventions are local/state - Austin's cc calendar already looks like OKC's.

So what competition is OKC expecting to get into that the city isn't already in? OKC is already in the regional rotations and with a new cc we could expect to be in the comp with other Tier 2 cities (??).

Anyways, I agree we need a new cc and the voters did vote for it. But will it really be an economic boon for the city? Other, more attractive cities have tried and built bigger/better facilities than OKC's proposed (I assume) and their calendars look like Austins, which looks like OKC's ALREADY.

The argument that I assume JTF is trying to make, is there may not be a huge need to move the cc ahead in M3 calendar - we need a new cc but we dont need it now nor at the expense of higher scoring M3 projects because the convention business nationwide is in a slump and the ONLY competition would come from getting a big convention - which Chicago, Orlando, and Las Vegas have those sealed; how can OKC expect to compete against those cities when more desirable cities (Denver, KC, Austin) in OKC's league can't. ??

Thank you - that is exactly what I meant. We'll have the nicest convention center in the state and the 2020 schedule of event will look exactly like the 2011 schedule of events, but we will be out $400 million. I guess some people see that as 'winning'.

[ljbab728]

Thank you - that is exactly what I meant. We'll have the nicest convention center in the state and the 2020 schedule of event will look exactly like the 2011 schedule of events, but we will be out $400 million. I guess some people see that as 'winning'.

Kerry, it's so nice to have your positive input back. We've missed you. LOL

[Rover]

Thank you - that is exactly what I meant. We'll have the nicest convention center in the state and the 2020 schedule of event will look exactly like the 2011 schedule of events, but we will be out $400 million. I guess some people see that as 'winning'.

This seems like the same mentality of the people around the city who don't mow their lawns and let the weeds grow up. What the heck...if you mow it it just grows again, so let's not bother. Who cares of the neighborhood runs down, our kin folk will still come see us, right? They have to, they are related. Well, guess what, when the kids leave the neighborhood and learn you don't have to live with run down and unkempt, they don't come back.

[Pete]

Back to the hotel, if the CC committee is lobbying to move up it's completion based on economic impact, then if there are active negotiations with a hotel operator, that's information the MAPS 3 committee and city council need to know in order to assist in prioritizing projects.

And if they know, then it would be public knowledge.

In the past, such negotiations have been hinted at and I'm quite sure if they had anything promising in the works, they would promote that as well. Rather, I suspect they aren't very far along in this area which is why there hasn't been much other than very vague references.