Is there any real truth to the rumor that UCO is going division 1 in football

[Rover]

I fear for OCU and the various smaller colleges, especially the relatively undistinguished private varieties.

Tuition has become crazy expensive and there are so many more appealing choices. In the information age, applicants care a ton about ratings and return on their investment.

Even the distinguished small private schools are struggling. My wife is an alum of one that has a great earned reputation and many distinguished alum and it is struggling to stay open too. It suffers from lack of physical care, money for new programs, etc., etc.

[Pete]

There probably needs to be some serious consolidations but that completely sucks for any alum of a particular school.

[citywokchinesefood]

There probably needs to be some serious consolidations but that completely sucks for any alum of a particular school.

It suck for the alumni, but the schools have been digging their own grave for the last three decades. Tuition costs and all other related costs to going to school have become absolutely insane. It was bad enough in the early 00s when I was going to school. I was very fortunate that my family was able and actually did put more than enough aside for me to get through four years without loans. I had to work throughout school for fun money and to help cover bills, but it wasn't that bad. Kids these days are getting absolutely bent over for a worse quality of education.

[Rover]

It suck for the alumni, but the schools have been digging their own grave for the last three decades. Tuition costs and all other related costs to going to school have become absolutely insane. It was bad enough in the early 00s when I was going to school. I was very fortunate that my family was able and actually did put more than enough aside for me to get through four years without loans. I had to work throughout school for fun money and to help cover bills, but it wasn't that bad. Kids these days are getting absolutely bent over for a worse quality of education.

Don't know about the broad brush "worse quality". I went to OU and it was relatively inexpensive vs now, but the quality of the school is much better and the school is much more respected. Earning power of new grads is generally good unless they received in fields of low demand. That's on the student and their parents, or whoever advises them. But, that's always been the case. All degrees are not the same and of the same earning potential. Running up big debts for degrees that earn you $36,000 a year when you get out is pretty hard to justify in the real world. Better have a good life plan.

[Pete]

OU's average class size is way smaller than when I graduated in 1982.

[citywokchinesefood]

I think the Covid year kids have a lot to say about the value/quality of the education they recieved. Also, the degrees we all received were substantially more marketable at the time. The job market is absolutely more difficult for fresh grads now than the past 40 or 50 years previously.

[BoulderSooner]

I think the Covid year kids have a lot to say about the value/quality of the education they recieved. Also, the degrees we all received were substantially more marketable at the time. The job market is absolutely more difficult for fresh grads now than the past 40 or 50 years previously.

only depends on what degree you get .... just like always ..

[citywokchinesefood]

Your ability to be reductive is always impressive.

[Midtowner]

I fear for OCU and the various smaller colleges, especially the relatively undistinguished private varieties.

Tuition has become crazy expensive and there are so many more appealing choices. In the information age, applicants care a ton about ratings and return on their investment.

It boggles the mind as to how OKCU could be having money troubles, but they are. But the above comment is correct. Lots of these schoolsÂ’ bottom lines depend on a certain level of enrollment and when you charge undergrads 35k+ for degrees which will be of similar or better quality at state schools, youÂ’re not going to find many takers.

OKCU is hard to justify the expense for with just about any of its programs, same for TU, except they are still better deals than your for-profit schools, but most of those are gone nowadays.

Which back to the point of this thread, kind of bodes well for a school like UCO which is conveniently located and can charge less than a third of what these other schools charge for similar or better quality programs.

But that said, UCOÂ’s enrollment is down about 3,000 from what it was when I was an undergrad there.

[scottk]

Recent article in Non-Doc that was written by former UCO VP of Enrollment, Myron Pope:

https://nondoc.com/2024/03/02/day-of...-universities/

Lots of good information about the recent history of higher education in Oklahoma and the issues being faced, one that stands out to me is regarding the rising costs of tuition at the directional/regional universities seems to be in relation to less state appropriations.

"During my tenure at UCO in the early 2000s, I witnessed firsthand the institution’s reliance on state funding, which constituted approximately 65 percent of its budget initially, dropping to 50 percent by 2008, and now hovering around 25 percent as of the latest report in 2023. This shift toward increased reliance on tuition and fees has placed a heavier financial burden on students" - Myron Pope

Related to the topic of the post, what's the overall benefit to UCO going D1? Would it actually lead to increased enrollment, or just increase additional non-academic operating costs? I think Wichita State University would be a good comparison as they probably serve similar demographics of students as UCO. Wichita State is D1 and received a lot of national attention with their basketball program in recent years, but they have not had a football program for almost 40 years.

[Swake]

It boggles the mind as to how OKCU could be having money troubles, but they are. But the above comment is correct. Lots of these schoolsÂ’ bottom lines depend on a certain level of enrollment and when you charge undergrads 35k+ for degrees which will be of similar or better quality at state schools, youÂ’re not going to find many takers.

OKCU is hard to justify the expense for with just about any of its programs, same for TU, except they are still better deals than your for-profit schools, but most of those are gone nowadays.

Which back to the point of this thread, kind of bodes well for a school like UCO which is conveniently located and can charge less than a third of what these other schools charge for similar or better quality programs.

But that said, UCOÂ’s enrollment is down about 3,000 from what it was when I was an undergrad there.

Tulsa has a large enough endowment to be able to give enough aid to any accepted student for the school to be affordable. The top line tuition cost is for the wealthy, only.

Tuls'sa endowment is $1.36 billion, OCU's is $95 million.

[Pete]

^

The way private schools work is they give a ton of aid to the best students.

But they pay the bills by lesser students paying full freight.

I went to Pepperdine and you could tell who was who right from the jump (I was a scholarship kid).

[Midtowner]

Tulsa has a large enough endowment to be able to give enough aid to any accepted student for the school to be affordable. The top line tuition cost is for the wealthy, only.

Tuls'sa endowment is $1.36 billion, OCU's is $95 million.

The tuition without scholarships there is insane.

~$278K for a 4-year undergrad degree with housing and fees.

Tution at UCO was just $75/credit hour when I started as an undergrad there. Today it's north of $275.

I'd agree at these prices, a 4 year degree is getting hard to justify.

https://www.collegetuitioncompare.co...tulsa/tuition/

[fortpatches]

The tuition without scholarships there is insane.

~$278K for a 4-year undergrad degree with housing and fees.

Tution at UCO was just $75/credit hour when I started as an undergrad there. Today it's north of $275.

I'd agree at these prices, a 4 year degree is getting hard to justify.

https://www.collegetuitioncompare.co...tulsa/tuition/

Also, something like 90%+ of undergrad students at TU have scholarships. I had a full tuition scholarship and stipend for law school there. I only knew one person paying full price.

[Pete]

Also, something like 90%+ of undergrad students at TU have scholarships. I had a full tuition scholarship and stipend for law school there. I only knew one person paying full price.

That number seems very high but even so, it's not like they all get a full ride.

There is a steep sliding scale depending on merit and plenty of parents pay for a private school because their kids can't get into a good public school, or they want a more protected experience at a smaller college. Financial aid was an open discussion when I was at Pepperdine, as I'm sure it is at every school.

Tulsa would have to give more scholarship money than the prestigious private schools, as there are plenty of families that pay the freight to go to a 'good' university.

[Swake]

That number seems very high but even so, it's not like they all get a full ride.

There is a steep sliding scale depending on merit and plenty of parents pay for a private school because their kids can't get into a good public school, or they want a more protected experience at a smaller college. Financial aid was an open discussion when I was at Pepperdine, as I'm sure it is at every school.

Tulsa would have to give more scholarship money than the prestigious private schools, as there are plenty of families that pay the freight to go to a 'good' university.

Most truly prestigious schools today guarantee that if accepted, you can attend without taking our any loans based on your family income. Harvard, Yale, Duke etc are all do it. Tulsa comes pretty close to being able to make that pledge.

My daughter went to Swarthmore, one of the baby ives outside Philadelphia. She got a full ride for everything but living expenses. The full rate tuition at Swat being $62,000 a year. But, 59% of students there get a total aid amount averaging $51k a year. Only the trust fund babies pay the full rate.

[Pete]

^

There are still, obviously, a lot of kids paying a ton of tuition at those colleges otherwise they couldn't stay in business.

Lots of aid for sure but there are still a bunch of students paying hundreds of thousands in tuition alone. I knew plenty of them at Pepperdine.

[Pete]

BTW, even OU is stupid expensive these days.

About $10K/year for in-state plus another $14K/year room and board. That's $100K for a 4-year degree.


BTW, according to US News, the average first year tuition at TU (including those who receive financial aid) is $27K, so still almost triple OU or OSU.

[fortpatches]

BTW, even OU is stupid expensive these days.

About $10K/year for in-state plus another $14K/year room and board. That's $100K for a 4-year degree.


BTW, according to US News, the average first year tuition at TU (including those who receive financial aid) is $27K, so still almost triple OU or OSU.

Checking out US News, there really isn't much of a median federal loan debt difference between the three of them. TU is about $1k more on median federal loan debt but less on Private loan debt:
At University of Tulsa, the median federal loan debt among borrowers who completed their undergraduate degree is $21,500. Additionally, 6% of graduating students at University of Tulsa took out private loans. Students with private loans had an average of $35,942 in private loan debt at graduation. Average Total Indebtedness of 2022 Graduating Class $25,789.

At University of Oklahoma, the median federal loan debt among borrowers who completed their undergraduate degree is $20,654. Additionally, 10% of graduating students at University of Oklahoma took out private loans. Students with private loans had an average of $42,760 in private loan debt at graduation. Average Total Indebtedness of 2022 Graduating Class $32,312.

At Oklahoma State University, the median federal loan debt among borrowers who completed their undergraduate degree is $20,500. Additionally, 9% of graduating students at Oklahoma State University took out private loans. Students with private loans had an average of $36,344 in private loan debt at graduation. Average Total Indebtedness of 2022 Graduating Class $25,642.

[Pete]

^

Since average tuition is so much higher at Tulsa, that merely tells you their students are borrowing less, not paying less.

[fortpatches]

^

Since average tuition is so much higher at Tulsa, that merely tells you their students are borrowing less, not paying less.

Yea, TU is more expensive. But OU isn't that far behind. The least expensive is OSU by a decent margin. (According to College Board)

University of Tulsa costs $26341 after scholarships and grants, with 60% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $55207.

University of Oklahoma costs $22022 after scholarships and grants, with 46% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $16243.

Oklahoma State University costs $14603 after scholarships and grants, with 50% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $16486.

[Pete]

^

Those numbers do not match US News which is the authority on all this.

[fortpatches]

^

Those numbers do not match US News which is the authority on all this.

From what I can tell, US News does not provided that data or provides it behind a paywall. They do not appear to provide a total school aid number (including both need-based and non-need-based) that is also separated out from Federal Aid.

For example, the only $27k numbers I can find are $26,781 which is the Net Price after aid for those that got federal loans (i.e., would exclude those that got a full ride since they would not be federal loan recipients). The other is the average cost for families making 75-110k/yr. Neither of those indicate what the costs after scholarships and grants would be. Assuming the $27k you previously cited is the "Net price for federal loan recipients" entry from US News, that is hardly "almost triple OU [$19,867] and OSU [$13,188]."

Also, according to TU (not the authoritative US News), 100% of First year students receive aid. Tuition & Aid - The University of Tulsa (utulsa.edu)

[Pete]

^

In-state annual tuition & fees for OU is $9,312.

[fortpatches]

^

In-state annual tuition & fees for OU is $9,312.

Gotcha, I was trying to compare the same numbers for each university from US News. According to US News, for OU:
Net price for federal loan recipients (2020-2021) $19,867

I am just trying to compare Apples to Apples and assumed that was the line item you mentioned for the $27k TU number.