Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[Snowman]

Canton Lake to be lowered | Outdoors This newsok article claims 30,000 acre-feet of water went to Overholser and Hefner, not the Oklahoma River. Were there two purchases or is Ed Godfrey wrong or is Faulkner from the This Land article wrong? There is a lot of confusion on this issue..

Every release from Canton I have followed, which I think is all them over the last two years, has been to fill Overholser and Hefner. It sounds like This Land Press is not exactly impartial, they are likely against OKC getting the water rights to Lake Sardis specifically or larger cities expanding their water supplies in this manor in general, from the way they want negotiations to happen and uses they favor for the Sardis.

Granted though if it goes into Overholser it will be used by the city, pass through the river eventually or evaporate; so some would have ended up in the river if they want to claim that. There has been at least one releases from Overholser to the river before a large event expressly for that, though that would have only been a small percentage from a prior release at Canton if any of it could be tracked back to a release from Canton. Generally though they just let the river basins fill as rainwater comes in and shifted some from the upper river basin to the boathouse basin if it required more for an event.

[LandRunOkie]

Every release from Canton I have followed, which I think is all them over the last two years, has been to fill Overholser and Hefner. It sounds like This Land Press is not exactly impartial, they are likely against OKC getting the water rights to Lake Sardis specifically or larger cities expanding their water supplies in this manor in general...

They are basically an online magazine, so they are allowed to have their own perspective. Their work on this was interesting and informative.

The Oklahoma River is downstream from Hefner and Draper so it has very little to do with these two lakes water levels. Even if it was upstream it would still have little effect since the volume of water it holds is nothing compared to these lakes.

And those This Land articles claim Sardis is downstream from OKC, which would make it necessary to build a massive uphill pumping operation to get their water. Plus Overholser is the lake that is used to fill the Oklahoma River. Just read the articles.

Of course, initially filling up the Oklahoma River when a dam breaks wastes a lot of water through evaporation and absorbition.

A dam just broke this summer.

[Snowman]

... And those This Land articles claim Sardis is downstream from OKC, which would make it necessary to build a massive uphill pumping operation to get their water. ...

Sardis is at a lower elevation than OKC which requires pumping their was no stream connecting them, both the existing pipeline and the new one are artificial.

These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

Outside of banning agriculture (vast majority of use) and watering lawns all the conservation is a drop in the bucket. Atoka has been at a lower elevation than us since we built the pipeline to it decades ago, it is pretty cheap to move it up the pump stations verses the treatment process we use on cantons water, the 500 million is on building a second pipeline parallel that extends to lake Sardis. The environmental damage they are estimating insinuates we pull a move like LA did, however we have not done anything like that with Atoka, even through the worst of this drought it is still near capacity.

[LandRunOkie]

Outside of banning agriculture (vast majority of use) and watering lawns all the conservation is a drop in the bucket.

You're definitely playing politics with that statement. The city of Seattle dropped its water usage by 20% per person strictly through conservation efforts [link (page 39)]. The same thing could be done in Okc by implementing their policies: -The seasonal rate structure is credited with saving close to 5 mgd since 1990. - Plumbing codes and regulations have saved more than 4 mgd. -Improvements in system efficiency have saved approximately 13 mgd since 1990. -The Home Water Savers Program involved 330,000 customers and saved nearly 6 mgd. It's time to stop pretending that we can bend nature to our will and implement some aggressive water conservation policies in this city.

[HewenttoJared]

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/product...on_drought.gif
Not changing soon. The city needs a longterm water plan.

[BoulderSooner]

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/product...on_drought.gif
Not changing soon. The city needs a longterm water plan.

OKC is in a GREAT water position longterm .. our water utilities trust has done a wonderful job protecting out future

[HewenttoJared]

OKC is in a GREAT water position longterm .. our water utilities trust has done a wonderful job protecting out future

Yea, as long as longterm(multi-decadal) rainfall projections are all wrong...

[BoulderSooner]

Yea, as long as longterm(multi-decadal) rainfall projections are all wrong...

umm no

[HewenttoJared]

umm no

Strongly argued.
How about maths?

Model Projections of an Imminent Transition to a More Arid Climate in Southwestern North America

If these models are correct, the levels of aridity of the recent multiyear drought or the Dust Bowl and the 1950s droughts will become the new climatology of the American Southwest within a time frame of years to decades.

[OKCTalker]

Dale Birchett knows what he's talking about - he's head of Friends of Lake Hefner (and also a good airplane mechanic to boot).

[LandRunOkie]

There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner...

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably. ...

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.

These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

[BoulderSooner]

These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

your definition of "massive" i think would be different then most ... and the environmental disruption is way overstated

[bombermwc]

We're not exactlly in a water shortage....do you really remember much rationing in OKC this summer?

I do, however, feel that local is better. I don't understand why the city doesn't place more effort on the Draper expansion than all this crap with Canton. It seems a no brainer that if the water is closer to the source, and can be piped rather than exposed, less will be lost in the transfer. Not to mention the fact that you could actually put a water treatment facility at Draper at that point because there is so much water right there. That would even save the need to pipe it 15 miles across town.

And people wonder why the city keeps the SE sector...ha.

[Popsy]

Sardis Lake is close to Lake Atoka. OKC already has a line in place from Lake Atoka, so the Sardis line could tie into the existing Atoka line and avoid the expense of a direct line from OKC to Sardis.

[Snowman]

Sardis Lake is close to Lake Atoka. OKC already has a line in place from Lake Atoka, so the Sardis line could tie into the existing Atoka line and avoid the expense of a direct line from OKC to Sardis.

The existing line does not have much capacity to spare, which is what prompted looking into where more water may eventually be stored/drawn from which is what lead to buying the capacity at Sardis, though the new one they have planed parallels the existing one to Atoka.

[UnclePete]

Who were the bright minds that decided on getting water from Canton? Seems like the arid parts of the state may not have much to spare.

[ctchandler]

Who were the bright minds that decided on getting water from Canton? Seems like the arid parts of the state may not have much to spare.

UnclePete,
I'm not sure if you are questioning the wisdom from recent years or the whole concept. Just to address the history, Enid didn't want the storage rights so OKC signed a contract with the Corps of Engineers for the water. As far as recent withdrawals, that was addressed in previous posts, and I believe Ubanized explained it pretty well in post 1926.
C. T.

[OSUFan]

Who were the bright minds that decided on getting water from Canton? Seems like the arid parts of the state may not have much to spare.

Freaking idiots, how dare they take something that belongs to them.

[jn1780]

Who were the bright minds that decided on getting water from Canton? Seems like the arid parts of the state may not have much to spare.

I don't know about Canton, but a lot of the lakes also act as flood control. So its cheaper to also use it to get water.

[BoulderSooner]

i don't think you really understand where our water supply comes from

[HewenttoJared]

i don't think you really understand where our water supply comes from

That information is a valuable online, so I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't know it. Tell me, what source do you think is unaffected by longterm drought?

[RadicalModerate]

i don't think you really understand where our water supply comes from

i guess not . . . i thought you simply opened the valve on the sink fixture and there it (the drinkable water) was!
sort of like how you put a plug into an outlet and there it (the electricity) is!
i can't tell you how thankful i am for your planning in regard to the gravity of the situation.
obviously, our potable water supply is the net result of melting iceburgs thanks to global warming.

[Bellaboo]

It definately does not come from the Colorado River, more like Southeastern Oklahoma.

[Bunty]

It definately does not come from the Colorado River, more like Southeastern Oklahoma.

Speaking of rivers, I don't know if it would be worthwhile, but maybe OKC could bring water down from the Arkansas River, via extending the 3 ft. wide Kaw Lake Pipeline that ends in Stillwater. But I imagine the pipe would be too expensive, and there's only so much water you can get out of a 3 ft. wide pipe.

[bradh]

Speaking of rivers, I don't know if it would be worthwhile, but maybe OKC could bring water down from the Arkansas River, via extending the 3 ft. wide Kaw Lake Pipeline that ends in Stillwater. But I imagine the pipe would be too expensive, and there's only so much water you can get out of a 3 ft. wide pipe.

That Kaw Lake Pipeline is in bad shape and is being evaluated to possibly replace. I'd be all for a 36" pipeline from Stillwater to Hefner but don't see it happening.