State Capitol Building

[sethsrott]

More pictures...conference room is nearing completion...

[TAlan CB]

Hey we didn't build the dome originally so no reason we can't go back and build the arch.

The closeups sketches I've seen of the Arch were quite nice (they use to have them on display in the capital building). Though, it was designed as a memorial to WWI, understandable at the time - the War to end all wars. Now it may seem a little much for one historic (though significant) war. I guess it could just be a classical structure with historic themes representing Oklahoma history - that would be appropriate.

[KayneMo]

How many square feet is the State Capitol? The Texas State Capitol claims to be the largest state capitol at 360,000 sq. ft., although I've seen several sources state that the Oklahoma State Capitol is over 400,000 sq. ft. Unless that's including additional buildings at the complex?

[sethsrott]

Photo of the 2nd Floor committee room. This used to be the chambers of the Court of Criminal Appeals. The Senate built the lower dais and took out the railing and replaced the carpet.
(Photo courtesy of Senator Brian Crain)

[Plutonic Panda]

Historic lamp moved to new permanent home.

Oklahoma City, OK - Twelve tall bronze lamps stood in the Senate Chamber of the state Capitol after it was built in 1917. There is no record of when the lamps were removed, but one returned to its original home by a Norman man almost a century later.
About 40 years ago, Coy Green purchased a tall floor lamp for $25 at an Oklahoma City swap meet. After that day, the lamp stood in his barn until he noticed a 1918 photograph of the chamber in a newspaper article printed last summer. The article with the photograph was about a discovery a Senate staffer had made while working in the Capitol building's attic. The staff member had found 11 antique wall sconces that once hung in the Senate chamber. Green recognized the floor lamps in the photograph and realized he had one to match.

"When I saw the picture, I knew it was a Senate lamp," Green said when he and his wife, Debbie, returned the lamp last July. "We were very happy, and it's good to be able to do this; it needs to be home."

Chair of the Capitol Preservation Commission, Trait Thompson, said they are grateful to have the lamp back in the Senate chamber.

"This beautiful piece is a direct tie to the history of the State Capitol," said Thompson. "It serves to remind us of those who blazed the trail to create our wonderful state over 100 years ago."



- Historic Lamp Returns To Senate Chamber - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[TAlan CB]

How many square feet is the State Capitol? The Texas State Capitol claims to be the largest state capitol at 360,000 sq. ft., although I've seen several sources state that the Oklahoma State Capitol is over 400,000 sq. ft. Unless that's including additional buildings at the complex?

Honestly, I don't know what the sqft. is, but this has been an issue since the building was built. I did a history report on design and construction of the building, learned a couple of intresting 'tidbits'. One was that the original contract was for 3 stories, but the new legislature wanted more space so they added an 'basement' (ground floor) and' attic' (5th floor) to get around the wording written - and funded - by the earlier legislature. This is why there was no funding to finish the dome when originally built. The dome was always part of the plan as the pediment for the weight of the dome was part of the original building. I thought this humorous turn of events during the construction was very appropriate as it clearly illustrated the nature of Oklahoma.

[warreng88]

Here is a link to the Journal Record article that has information on $160 million in bonds for capitol repairs passed by the Senate if anyone has a sign in and would like to post the article:

Restoring the people?s house: Senate committee OKs $160M bond for Capitol repairsThe Journal Record | The Journal Record

[warreng88]

Here is the Oklahoman article on it and as usual, there are some comments that are gems at the bottom...

Oklahoma state Capitol repairs bond issue clears committee | News OK

[gopokes88]

Here is the Oklahoman article on it and as usual, there are some comments that are gems at the bottom...

Oklahoma state Capitol repairs bond issue clears committee | News OK

Oh dear Lord that's brutal.
Potential republican tax cuts for the rich are to blame for decades of neglect towards the capitol. Yeah...that's totally it.
Vote anyone who votes for any debt whatsoever out of office? Yeah because the pay as you go road funding is brilliant solution that doesn't cost more and take longer. If that guy didn't buy his home in cash he needs to rethink his views. He should probably learn about the difference between good debt and bad debt, low interest rates and high interest rates.

[HangryHippo]

Oh dear Lord that's brutal.
Potential republican tax cuts for the rich are to blame for decades of neglect towards the capitol. Yeah...that's totally it.
Vote anyone who votes for any debt whatsoever out of office? Yeah because the pay as you go road funding is brilliant solution that doesn't cost more and take longer. If that guy didn't buy his home in cash he needs to rethink his views. He should probably learn about the difference between good debt and bad debt, low interest rates and high interest rates.

Richard Kennedy sounds like a jackass.

[warreng88]

That is why Steve Lackmeyer has said multiple times to never, ever read the comments at the bottom of articles. It just makes you dumber.

[Plutonic Panda]

So glad to something is being done about this.

$160 million approved for Capitol
James Coburn
The Edmond Sun

EDMOND — The state Senate today approved legislation that would issue $160 million of bond money to renovate the state Capitol building.

Problems for the 96-year-old building have been a safety hazard in recent years with pieces falling along the exterior. Yellow barricades placed in front of the building are a reminder of the safety risks to visitors and staff.

“Many thanks to the senators who voted to support this measure, which would pay for much-needed repairs to the state Capitol,” said Gov. Mary Fallin. “It’s our responsibility to maintain and preserve our seat of government. A bond issue is the best, most realistic option for restoring the people’s House.”

Also, the Senate formed a Senate Capitol Construction Oversight Select Committee to monitor cost issues, said Senate President Pro Tempore Brian Bingman. State Sen. Greg Treat, R-Oklahoma City, will chair the committee of six members including state Sen. A.J. Griffin, R-Edmond.

“As a state, we have an obligation to take care of our assets, especially the seat of our government, our state Capitol,” said Bingman, R-Sapulpa, who is author of the bill.

- See more at: $160 million approved for Capitol » Local News » The Edmond Sun

[HangryHippo]

So glad to something is being done about this.

Jumping the gun a little, plupan. The house (of idiots) is probably going to stonewall this because, rather suddenly in their eyes, the prison workers system is nearing a crisis.

Our "leaders" have become so debt averse that we're going to watch our state crumble. We go from crisis to crisis, but refuse to let bonds be sold so that we can get ahead of anything. The bridge between Lexington and Purcell, other highway bridges, the Capitol, DHS, the prison system, etc. Eventually there are going to be too many crises to deal with like we do now.

[CaptDave]

There a lot of people who really think you can handle the finances of a local, state, or federal government like kitchen table family finances. Simply doesn't work that way. I think it is pretty funny to ask the people like that if they have a mortgage (9/10 of the time they do) and then ask them why they are so fiscally irresponsible.

[Plutonic Panda]

Jumping the gun a little, plupan. The house (of idiots) is probably going to stonewall this because, rather suddenly in their eyes, the prison workers system is nearing a crisis.

Our "leaders" have become so debt averse that we're going to watch our state crumble. We go from crisis to crisis, but refuse to let bonds be sold so that we can get ahead of anything. The bridge between Lexington and Purcell, other highway bridges, the Capitol, DHS, the prison system, etc. Eventually there are going to be too many crises to deal with like we do now.

That sucks. I guess it will take a piece of limestone that falls and kills someone before something is done about this.

[Larry OKC]

The mortgage analogy is humorous but misses the point (and it is odd that someone would say that "kitchen table family finances" don't apply and then bring it up). The reason most folks have a mortgage is they don't have the cash to pay for it up front. There are times when you need to borrow the money because you just don't have it. Granted there are times when NOT borrowing money can end up costing you more in interest when you do NEED to eventually borrow money, so it is better to make sure this is something that you NEED to borrow money for to do. it isn't. The State has it (I'm not advocating for it, but one possible source is the Rainy Day Fund which according to this recent report has $535.2 million in it).

We aren't talking about taking about a 25 year mortgage to build a new Capitol (which one early estimate said we could do for the same amount), or even buy the Capitol, we are talking about taking out a 25 year loan for repair work to a building we already own. And yes, sometimes you may need to borrow the money to get your roof replaced or to do a major remodel. But if you have the cash to do so, why in the world would you want to take out a 25 year loan to do it???

My opposition to using bonds is that it IS borrowed money, that no matter how low the interest rate is, that is money that has to be paid back at some point. Why not pay cash (if you can) for something? Hello, anyone around here heard of MAPS? Take the money that you are saving in interest and build it for less or make the project better.

Lawmakers debate how to fund Capitol repairs - Tulsa World: Capitol Report

"...estimated that at current interest rates, debt service on a $160 million bond issue for the Capitol would be just $10.1 million a year over 25 years."

While I am unclear if that 10.1 million/yr includes the principal or just the interest, even if it does include the principal, that means a $160 million project now costs $252.5 million...a waste of over $90 million. Money that could be spent on other needed things. As others have pointed out, we seem to have a never-ending list of "needed things".

[gopokes88]

The mortgage analogy is humorous but misses the point (and it is odd that someone would say that "kitchen table family finances" don't apply and then bring it up). The reason most folks have a mortgage is they don't have the cash to pay for it up front. There are times when you need to borrow the money because you just don't have it. Granted there are times when NOT borrowing money can end up costing you more in interest when you do NEED to eventually borrow money, so it is better to make sure this is something that you NEED to borrow money for to do. it isn't. The State has it (I'm not advocating for it, but one possible source is the Rainy Day Fund which according to this recent report has $535.2 million in it).

We aren't talking about taking about a 25 year mortgage to build a new Capitol (which one early estimate said we could do for the same amount), or even buy the Capitol, we are talking about taking out a 25 year loan for repair work to a building we already own. And yes, sometimes you may need to borrow the money to get your roof replaced or to do a major remodel. But if you have the cash to do so, why in the world would you want to take out a 25 year loan to do it???

My opposition to using bonds is that it IS borrowed money, that no matter how low the interest rate is, that is money that has to be paid back at some point. Why not pay cash (if you can) for something? Hello, anyone around here heard of MAPS? Take the money that you are saving in interest and build it for less or make the project better.

Lawmakers debate how to fund Capitol repairs - Tulsa World: Capitol Report

While I am unclear if that 10.1 million/yr includes the principal or just the interest, even if it does include the principal, that means a $160 million project now costs $252.5 million...a waste of over $90 million. Money that could be spent on other needed things. As others have pointed out, we seem to have a never-ending list of "needed things".

It means in 25 years the total amount they would pay is $170.1 million versus draining $160 million in cash. That's extremely cheap capital.

The problem with pay as you go is simple, especially for roads.

Over the length of time it takes to raise that money the labor, materials cost, and it reduces the state's bargaining power for the total cost, it would cheaper to just issue a bond and pay as you go on the bond.

Labor costs increases every year.
Material cost increases every year.
The bargaining power is reduced because you are tying up the construction company for a longer period of time. Take the 235/44 interchange. It is going to take a ridiculous 7 years to complete. That's 7 years of tying up the construction companies workers, managers, engineers etc. The company is going to charge more because of this. Instead if it was fully funded with a bond and completed in two years the company would do it for less and move onto other projects. (buying in bulk). It's an insane way of funding things. I understand not wanting to overextend, but this is taking it to the extreme.

[Plutonic Panda]

It means in 25 years the total amount they would pay is $170.1 million versus draining $160 million in cash. That's extremely cheap capital.

The problem with pay as you go is simple, especially for roads.

Over the length of time it takes to raise that money the labor, materials cost, and it reduces the state's bargaining power for the total cost, it would cheaper to just issue a bond and pay as you go on the bond.

Labor costs increases every year.
Material cost increases every year.
The bargaining power is reduced because you are tying up the construction company for a longer period of time. Take the 235/44 interchange. It is going to take a ridiculous 7 years to complete. That's 7 years of tying up the construction companies workers, managers, engineers etc. The company is going to charge more because of this. Instead if it was fully funded with a bond and completed in two years the company would do it for less and move onto other projects. (buying in bulk). It's an insane way of funding things. I understand not wanting to overextend, but this is taking it to the extreme.

Agreed. I hate the pay as you go method. It ends up costing more.

[HangryHippo]

It means in 25 years the total amount they would pay is $170.1 million versus draining $160 million in cash. That's extremely cheap capital.

The problem with pay as you go is simple, especially for roads.

Over the length of time it takes to raise that money the labor, materials cost, and it reduces the state's bargaining power for the total cost, it would cheaper to just issue a bond and pay as you go on the bond.

Labor costs increases every year.
Material cost increases every year.
The bargaining power is reduced because you are tying up the construction company for a longer period of time. Take the 235/44 interchange. It is going to take a ridiculous 7 years to complete. That's 7 years of tying up the construction companies workers, managers, engineers etc. The company is going to charge more because of this. Instead if it was fully funded with a bond and completed in two years the company would do it for less and move onto other projects. (buying in bulk). It's an insane way of funding things. I understand not wanting to overextend, but this is taking it to the extreme.

Exactly!

[onthestrip]

Weird that Mr conservative fiscal hawk TW Shannon approved capitol renovations where window treatments alone were several thousand dollars apiece. I guess he's one of those do as I say not as I do types.

[Larry OKC]

It means in 25 years the total amount they would pay is $170.1 million versus draining $160 million in cash. That's extremely cheap capital.

How do you figure $170.1 million? 10.1 million/yr x 25 years = $252.5 million

The problem with pay as you go is simple, especially for roads.

Over the length of time it takes to raise that money the labor, materials cost, and it reduces the state's bargaining power for the total cost, it would cheaper to just issue a bond and pay as you go on the bond.

Labor costs increases every year.
Material cost increases every year.
The bargaining power is reduced because you are tying up the construction company for a longer period of time. Take the 235/44 interchange. It is going to take a ridiculous 7 years to complete. That's 7 years of tying up the construction companies workers, managers, engineers etc. The company is going to charge more because of this. Instead if it was fully funded with a bond and completed in two years the company would do it for less and move onto other projects. (buying in bulk). It's an insane way of funding things. I understand not wanting to overextend, but this is taking it to the extreme.

Not sure if it works the same way for the State but on the City level it doesn't make any difference in total time frame if something is paid for with Bonds or a primarily pay-as-you-go method as with MAPS. Total time for either method for large-scale programs from voter approval to completion is 10 to 12 years.

I agree with you on extended construction schedules but if you have the money in-hand and interest free it can be built right away without paying that long-term debt back. But even if you use Bonds, it is my understanding that they aren't sold all at once (that the State would have all $160 million in hand). Plus how many of the repair projects are "shovel ready"? How many of the projects no matter what method they choose are perhaps several years away from being completed.

Agreed. I hate the pay as you go method. It ends up costing more.

Did you vote for MAPS? it is a primarily pay-as-you-go method. According to the City it says money because they aren't paying any interest (and in some cases, they earn interest, which can offset any increase costs in labor materials etc.

[Plutonic Panda]

Did you vote for MAPS? it is a primarily pay-as-you-go method. According to the City it says money because they aren't paying any interest (and in some cases, they earn interest, which can offset any increase costs in labor materials etc.

That is completely different than road projects and projects like renovating the state capitol that need done NOW.

[kevinpate]

Weird that Mr conservative fiscal hawk TW Shannon approved capitol renovations where window treatments alone were several thousand dollars apiece. I guess he's one of those do as I say not as I do types.

Aren't most all (and yes, most all, irrespective of party.)

[Plutonic Panda]

Oklahoma House Panel To Consider $160M Capitol Bond - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

http://www.news9.com/story/25197657/...ed-places-list

[Plutonic Panda]

More great news... first the AICC then this!!!!!!!!!!!

Oklahoma House defeats bond issue for state Capitol repairs | News OK