Trader Joe's

[bchris02]

Hmm, I was under the assumption that the distributors handled all percentages and their only limiting factor was the brands they carried. Perhaps they have the market cornered (for now) but that sure seems to be putting all their eggs in one basket.

The lack of brewpubs IMO in OK is due to the inability to produce beer in excess of 3.2ABW, if they plan on self-distributing anyway. If they go through a distributor they could produce higher abv beers but there are hoops to jump through that cost more time, money, hassle, etc.

I have to wonder how much influence (if any) TX distributors may have on legislation being stalled here in OK. North Texas, not to mention other surrounding states, could stand to loose a lot of revenue if laws were changed here in OK. Not only are there groups of craft beer fans traveling out of state for beer unavailable here there are just as many (if not more) BMC fans doing the same so they can get their hands on some 'Texas Six Point!'. Those guys in TX certainly love that misunderstanding and how gullible people are that they wouldn't spend 5 minutes online to verify what they are getting isn't twice as strong. Of course most of those same people think higher abv=better beer too.

Oh man, it saddens me when I think of how much our state still has to learn, especially if we ever expect to get any of these archaic laws changed or abolished.

Most "6 point" beer isn't 6 point. Most of your mass produced domestics in other states are around 4.0 or a little higher and craft beers are between 5.0 and 6.0. In Oklahoma, if you are drinking Bud, Bud Light, Coors, etc, you aren't getting a much different product at 3.2 abw than you are in other states. Where you can really tell the difference is imports/microbrews.

[bille]

Most "6 point" beer isn't 6 point. Most of your mass produced domestics in other states are around 4.0 or a little higher and craft beers are between 5.0 and 6.0. In Oklahoma, if you are drinking Bud, Bud Light, Coors, etc, you aren't getting a much different product at 3.2 abw than you are in other states. Where you can really tell the difference is imports/microbrews.

Correct. Although in my previous posts about 'Texas six point' I didn't mention I was being facetious, I was hoping that was obvious. I'm well aware of the alcohol contents of most beer styles (regardless of where they are brewed) due to being a brewer for over five years now, as well as just being a beer geek in general, whether it's drinking beer, talking about it or reading about it and it's history, I'm very much interested. Moreover, a pet peeve of mine is people that speak incorrectly of beer or beer laws so chances are, if there's a beer thread here I'm lurking waiting to chime in when I feel compelled.

[GaryOKC6]

I just heard that Trader Joes is probibly going into the Crescent Market space at Nichols hills Plaza. One of the merchants there told me this.

[mcca7596]

I wonder how Whole Foods will feel about Chesapeake bringing in direct competition (I acknowledge there is a slightly different price point/focus for TJ vs. WF, but still). It must speak to Trader Joe's confidence in the market though if they go there and feel like they can get the same market share as opposed to if they went up on Memorial or down in Norman, etc...

[Pete]

This may be Aubrey's last hurrah...

He's set to step down very soon and perhaps he wanted to make this deal as one of his last bits of legacy.

If they are going into that spot, you can be sure they were given significant incentives, as was Whole Foods.

[foodiefan]

Sprouts, WF, and TJs. . .this really "packs" that area with the kind of stores so much of the city is clamoring for. . .just glad I'm pretty close.

[mcca7596]

It would be better if they were more spread out, so as to expose themselves to a wider range of people.

[sooner88]

True, but like Pete said he has little time left and this is probably his last chance to "right the wrong" that was done to NH Plaza and NH in general.

[GaryOKC6]

I talked to someone at Chesapeake this morning. He confirmed that the deal has fallen apart since AM resigned. TJ's is looking at other locations.

[adaniel]

I talked to someone at Chesapeake this morning. He confirmed that the deal has fallen apart since AM resigned. TJ's is looking at other locations.

By other locations, did they mean just somewhere else in the area?

[Mr. Cotter]

Wouldn't it be a great tennant in The Rise?

[betts]

Yeah, I heard today that Crescent Market is thinking about going back into their old space and that Trader Joe's is probably not an option there.

[OKCTalker]

Yeah, I heard today that Crescent Market is thinking about going back into their old space and that Trader Joe's is probably not an option there.

I'm not buying this because Crescent previously required a "subsidy" from Chesapeake Land through a break in rent, and they won't be as generous with subsidies now that Aubrey is leaving. Also, Crescent wasn't successful before Whole Foods moved into the neighborhood - they wouldn't stand a chance now.

[betts]

I'm not buying this because Crescent previously required a "subsidy" from Chesapeake Land through a break in rent, and they won't be as generous with subsidies now that Aubrey is leaving. Also, Crescent wasn't successful before Whole Foods moved into the neighborhood - they wouldn't stand a chance now.

I'm not saying it's a smart business move, but I did have an extremely reliable source tell me that. I also didn't say it's a done deal, but rather that the Crescent owners are thinking about it.

[Rover]

Crescent would have to step up their game big time to actually compete. Crescent had become stale but looked good vs. Homeland or WalMart. Against Whole Foods, Sprouts, or even the new Crests they aren't special.

[Pete]

Much tougher for Crescent now as 1) a brand new and heavily subsidized Whole Foods is a block away; 2) no doubt they will be charged more rent and 3) they don't have the drug store and lunch counter next door to help draw traffic.

[Teo9969]

Wouldn't it be a great tennant in The Rise?

OMG yes

[TAlan CB]

I was going to write up my feelings about Trader Joe's and why I think WF or even WMNM would be a better choice but I found this online. It sums up what I would have said way better than I could have: Cart Snob

The story is very misleading (it's a load of 'c--p'). Ironically, I have shoped and lived near both of the stores quoted in the story. I lived in Cary and then moved to N. Raleigh. After 7 years we moved to Alpharetta GA, and the closest TJ is a few miles away in Rosewell - where I will be going after writing this. Over time we have come to discover our health is now depended on eating non-processed, low sodium, or gluten free foods (for my sons health). We are pleased to see local Walmart grocery stores introduce gluten free, and otherwise offer more healthy choices. This also true of Kroger. But, in both cases, it is much CHEAPER to get the same or similar products at TJ. And, there are many products not availabe at WM or Kroger that we can only get at TJ. Traders bases it's buisness on healthy, enviormentally friendly, and 'exotic' foods. This combined with wine is the core of their buisness. Whole pineapples are as cheap at TJ as at Walmart - and almost half the cost of at Publix or Kroger. Since a lot of processed food is high in salt, when Traders carries it it is due to it being exotic - my son loves his Tika Masala (made in Canada). I am happy that I can find a gluten-free frozen pizza for him for under $4. If healthy, alternative foods are not your thing, you can find cheaper places. But, like myself - who grew up shopping at Crest because it was cheap, you will find yourself forced to shop at a TJ or Whole Foods - for the repair of your health. There are one of the original Whole Foods down the street even closer than Traders. We often shop there because they offer a greater variety of healthy, and exotic foods - but you sure pay for it. Trader is cheaper because they make direct contracts with the producer in their area. So, in N. Carolina strawberries and blueberries are cheaper because they are local - and you pay more for the product that is shiped across the country. That is true of all their stores. Having said this, Trader will not be the best for everyone, but it does get a lot of young professional, multi-cultural, and health concious buisness. A 1/4 of any Traders store is Wine - and I've shopped at least 5 stores (Cary and central Raleigh - Atlanta, Sand Springs, and Rosewell) and they are all layed-out this way. Just like their food, they act as wholesalers or direct-ship vendors, so the prices are very cheap for good products. I suspect this is very important to their buisness plan - and so I don't see them moving into Oklahoma unless the laws are changed.

[ljbab728]

Traders bases it's buisness on healthy, enviormentally friendly, and 'exotic' foods. This combined with wine is the core of their buisness.

Is their wine healthy, environmentally friendly, and exotic?

[bluedogok]

A 1/4 of any Traders store is Wine - and I've shopped at least 5 stores (Cary and central Raleigh - Atlanta, Sand Springs, and Rosewell) and they are all layed-out this way. Just like their food, they act as wholesalers or direct-ship vendors, so the prices are very cheap for good products. I suspect this is very important to their buisness plan - and so I don't see them moving into Oklahoma unless the laws are changed.

Trader Joe's can only sell wine in one (1) store in the state of Colorado but they are going to open up stores here anyway, just like what that Whole Foods has done. The only Whole Foods with wine (and "high point beer") is in Boulder, the Trader Joe's with wine will be in a redevelopment area east of Downtown Denver.

Washington is the only state that does not require a three-tier distribution system in which they could not act as their own distributor or is has a alcoholic beverage control jurisdictions in which the state acts as the distributor. Even their own private label wine has to go through a distributorship (or state agency) in those states that require it.

[bchris02]

Somebody told me that Trader Joe's was trying to get a local partner to open up a liquor store next door to sell their beer and wine. Is this possible under the Oklahoma liquor laws?

[bluedogok]

As long as they have been an Oklahoma resident for the previous 10 years and do not currently own a store (for a new licensee), then they can. An existing store could possibly relocate to a space like that, it would just have to meet relocation approval. This is how the liquor stores in Costco/Sam's stores in Texas and Colorado are handled, they build a space next to but completely separate from the main store and lease the space to a licensed operator. In Texas Costco only sells beer/win, in Colorado only 3.2 beer, the adjacent liquor stores sell the rest.

[soonerguru]

The Colorado example is a little misleading. Sure, Colorado may have similarly restrictive liquor laws, but it also has a lot more health-conscious shoppers than the typical state.

[bluedogok]

What does "health conscience" have to do with it liquor laws and how stores operate around them? Colorado is also the "Napa Valley of Craft Beer" and The Great American Beer Festival here sold out in about 30 minutes. You can't walk or around downtown without passing a high number of brewpubs and there are quite a few of them out here in the burbs and multiple ones in pretty much every decent sized mountain town. I was merely stating the falsehood that liquor laws were preventing stores from opening up from opening up in OKC and/or Tulsa. We all know that OKC demographics are skewed but many national retailers don't seem top have a clue that OKC seems to operate from a completely different set of parameters than many other cities. I think the liquor laws here and in Oklahoma are screwed up but they really aren't that much worse than many so-called "liberal states" like Massachusetts (the last time that I was there a few years ago they still only sold beer/wine/liquor in package stores) or the 18 states which still have state owned liquor stores and some of those include beer/wine in that.

Many of those so called "health-conscious" people that I knew in Austin (and here) are some of the biggest partiers/drinkers that I knew. They are "health-conscious" to balance out what they do with the rest of their life, they haven't hit the age yet where their behavior has caught up with them.

[soonerguru]

What does "health conscience" have to do with it liquor laws and how stores operate around them? Colorado is also the "Napa Valley of Craft Beer" and The Great American Beer Festival here sold out in about 30 minutes. You can't walk or around downtown without passing a high number of brewpubs and there are quite a few of them out here in the burbs and multiple ones in pretty much every decent sized mountain town. I was merely stating the falsehood that liquor laws were preventing stores from opening up from opening up in OKC and/or Tulsa. We all know that OKC demographics are skewed but many national retailers don't seem top have a clue that OKC seems to operate from a completely different set of parameters than many other cities. I think the liquor laws here and in Oklahoma are screwed up but they really aren't that much worse than many so-called "liberal states" like Massachusetts (the last time that I was there a few years ago they still only sold beer/wine/liquor in package stores) or the 18 states which still have state owned liquor stores and some of those include beer/wine in that.

Many of those so called "health-conscious" people that I knew in Austin (and here) are some of the biggest partiers/drinkers that I knew. They are "health-conscious" to balance out what they do with the rest of their life, they haven't hit the age yet where their behavior has caught up with them.

Wow. Seems I struck a chord. My point was that Colorado is an attractive market for Trader Joe's regardless of its liquor laws, because Coloradans are likely shoppers. No biggie.