$465 million in aid to Oklahoma includes lightrail!!!

[soonerguru]

Needless to say, if we are going to get the money no matter what...light rail from Midwest City to Bricktown is not anything that will help in a widespread way. The money can be spent in a much better way.

Then ODOT, not Congress, is responsible. ODOT is who submitted the project. Personally, I'm thrilled to see ODOT endorse rail at all. I'm not aware they've done so ever for commuter purposes. I agree with all, however, that it seems like a low-priority line.

The issue here is that the city shouldn't be waiting to get plans in place. If we had blueprints on some rail projects they might be in the mix right now.

[PennyQuilts]

I don't think we should get more than a city that is of equal size but worse off. Yes we have bridge and highway problems in this state. I'm sure we could get into a whole discussion on funding for that at the state and federal level and where funds are perhaps spent on pork projects rather than what we need.

Well stated.

[sgray]

Well, I think none of us want to blow money or pay more taxes, but the fact remains: "use it or lose it". That's the deal. The money will be spent either in our town, or in someone else's. We are gonna pay a share of it whether we use it or not, so the logical thing to do is take advantage of our share of it.

Regardless of the situation with the MWC/TAFB-BRICKTOWN line, I think it's a terrible thing for people to see that now, in 2009, OKC has no plans good enough to even make them "shovel-ready" for transit. And I mean TRANSIT--not just rail! This issue is not just about money. OKC and OK in general have refused to take this issue out of the shoebox on the shelf and touch it at all! It keeps getting talked about..and talked about..and talked about. We need engineered plans--on paper--not just google maps and estimates, which is what they've paid for so far. Then we can know what we're up against. We can bite pieces off as we can fund it. Our little bus system is something we could be fixing now and could have been fixing years ago. Yet the problems remain. And day-after-day we talk, and look, and talk, and look. The leaders in charge of that system come to work and go home, day after day after day. Nothing. It's there now and even what we do have isn't efficiently implemented. Our local bus station (newly built) is not only in the middle of a tight downtown block, but it is not even close to the regional bus station and that is something the planners knew about before they built it. Why can't I ride the bus to the terminal and transfer to Greyhound without walking a mile or taking yet another mis-allocated bus just to the union bus station?

(takes breath)

As metro and others have stated, it is true that since this little demo project in MWC is the only real thing on paper, we really must start with that line. It sucks, cause that's gonna be a less-efficient start-up as opposed to Norman and Edmond, downtown, and the airport...but in the big picture, it is a piece of the pie that must be completed. So while it is not an optimal start, it is part of the pie. Because we will be starting there, the cost-benefit numbers on daily operations for that line are gonna skew quite a bit until we get a full system up and people can connect to that leg of the system. That part, I fear, may get used against us by anyone wishing to prevent mass transit implementation here. They could say "look how much this is costing us to operate!" and they wouldn't be lying. Unlike Norman or Edmond, until the rest of the system is up and going, that MWC leg is gonna cost more than it brings in to operate.

I hope that it gets selected and implemented and that the best-case scenario occurs and it fuels a massive fire in this community to kick-start the proper design and buildout of a functional transit system.


DISCLAIMER: unrelated, crazy-a** idea below.

Don't you folks think that it is about time that OKCTalk implements a picket line and/or organizes a strong vocal position at the "decision-making" meetings? I know we already have that individual right, but this forum really is a great platform and IMO I think it would have a two-fold benefit of attracting people 1) to the issues before the decisions are made; and 2) attract more folks to OKCTalk as the central hub to discuss all issues "OKC".

[SouthsideSooner]

...

Jobs for Oklahomans

Gary Ridley, director of the state Transportation Department, has been working for three months on a list of state road and bridge projects that will be ready to go when the money is in the pipeline.

Ridley said the money will have use-it-or-lose-it conditions, but he doesn’t expect any other restrictions that would prevent the highway commission from approving bids on projects that have been part of the department’s backlog for years.

"We’re focused on the fact that we need to move quickly on this,” Ridley said. "It means jobs for Oklahomans.”

Most of the road and transit money is expected to go through the funding formula used since 2005 to distribute gas tax revenue to states for construction. Oklahoma is expected to get about $500 million for roads, bridges and transit projects.

The state actually has more "shovel-ready” projects than would be funded by that amount. Ridley said he expects the commission to divide the projects among its eight divisions statewide.

http://www.newsok.com/stimulus-bill-...rticle/3342528

[dismayed]

They won't have TIME to go.

I saw this in your original post, no need to yell. I just don't think that is the case. Yeah sure the blue collar types at the base are on a strict schedule, but not the white collar workers. Almost all of them have flexible schedules. I think it would be possible to draw a measly 5% across to Tinker, don't you? That is a very conservative number. And like I said the math adds up to $1 million new dollars per year at that level.

Whether or not we should be getting this project is out of scope for this thread, but if we get it I think it actually would have a net positive impact. I think it is pretty easy to come up with numbers that support that.

[benman]

We would have a ton of money if the government was not trying to spend it on the most worthless liberal agendas. $465 million is is not going to get us very far. Also, a light rail between tinker and downtown is a terrible idea in my opinion. Use the money to clean up some areas around the city or build something worthwhile.

[metro]

Not to mention if you consider this as a starter line (or by the time it's implemented maybe it's not), and if MAPS3 has mass transit (which I would almost guarantee), this line could tie into other lines proposed in MAPS3, then voila ---we have more than one line in operation at about the same time, and we got the feds to pay for part of it that otherwise we might have had to foot all the bill on. I'm not sure why people are so upset at this or think it's optional/ up for discussion, as sgray stated, it's take it or leave it, either way we're paying for it, might as well route money to our state for a change. Some of these posters sound like the politicians we've had for decades having no problem routing money we should be getting to other states instead.

[bretthexum]

^^ Totally agree. The first line is never going to please everyone. At least it's a start towards light rail in the city. Start small, and build from there.

[TaoMaas]

The first line is never going to please everyone. At least it's a start towards light rail in the city. Start small, and build from there.

I agree with this, but I question Tinker-to-downtown as a the right starting point. I used to live in Edmond and worked downtown. I would gladly have taken a light rail option, if it had been available. Since I took Broadway Ext. normally, I never knew if my commute was going to take 20 minutes or 1 1/2 hrs. It could vary anywhere in between the two, depending on whether there was an accident or not. That commute was 17 miles each way, btw. These days, I still work downtown, but I live in Midwest City, so I'm a prime candidate for using the proposed rail line. But I live about 6 miles from downtown and 3 miles from Tinker. So using a rail system now only gains me a 3 mile advantage, whereas before it would have given me a 12-15 mile advantage. Since I drive a car that gets about 30 mpg and I sometimes work weird hours, gas would probably have to approach $7-$10/gal before the cost/nuisance factor would equal out enough for me to consider using the light rail option.

[OKCMallen]

This line has been talked about for years. I don't think "Bricktown" is the major key to this line. I believe the thought is to get people from Tinker to DOWNTOWN in general and vice versa, not so much give tourist rides to Bricktown for the troops/workers. It would also make it a viable option for people who work at Tinker to be able to live the urban lifestyle without having to rely on a car. I agree, it may not be the best starter line, but those are the two biggest employment centers in the city.

This. Give me a route down 235 to downtown and I'd take it on a fairly regular basis for work AND play.

[Richard at Remax]

If I can ride the rail to and from the thunder games I think I can help myself to a few more beers

[bretthexum]

I agree with this, but I question Tinker-to-downtown as a the right starting point. I used to live in Edmond and worked downtown. I would gladly have taken a light rail option, if it had been available. Since I took Broadway Ext. normally, I never knew if my commute was going to take 20 minutes or 1 1/2 hrs. It could vary anywhere in between the two, depending on whether there was an accident or not. That commute was 17 miles each way, btw. These days, I still work downtown, but I live in Midwest City, so I'm a prime candidate for using the proposed rail line. But I live about 6 miles from downtown and 3 miles from Tinker. So using a rail system now only gains me a 3 mile advantage, whereas before it would have given me a 12-15 mile advantage. Since I drive a car that gets about 30 mpg and I sometimes work weird hours, gas would probably have to approach $7-$10/gal before the cost/nuisance factor would equal out enough for me to consider using the light rail option.

Don't get me wrong - I live in Edmond and would love that too. I really wish we could start with that also, but it sounds like the easiest and cheapest start would be the MWC - DT line because a lot of the prerequisites are already in place. I think Metro stated the case pretty well above.

My point is that I guess beggers can't be choosers. Let's take what we can get to start the project since they are helping with the costs. Then with MAPS 3 we can expand from there.

[TaoMaas]

My point is that I guess beggers can't be choosers. Let's take what we can get to start the project since they are helping with the costs. Then with MAPS 3 we can expand from there.

I agree with you. I'll take what we can get and hope we expand from there. I was doing some "armchair quarterbacking".

[hoya]

Let's get the MWC line started, because someone else is going to be paying for it. Would I prefer that we had the Norman to OKC line ready to go? Of course. But it's not.

This city needs to start somewhere. If MWC is all that is prepped, then so be it. That's where we'll start. This is ultimately a matter of either taking money to pay for a project that may not be ideal, or not getting free money at all. If my rich old uncle Herbert (or in this case, Uncle Sam) wants to give me a million dollars to build a garden in my backyard, I'll take it, even though I don't really want a garden.

[venture]

Free money? Someone else paying for it? Yeaahhhhhh.

[Superhyper]

I wonder if someone could find the average traffic density numbers between MWC and Bricktown...that could be enlightening.

[sgray]

I wonder if someone could find the average traffic density numbers between MWC and Bricktown...that could be enlightening.

You can piece together some of what you're looking for here: ACOG traffic counts Although this won't show where folks are headed, it does show the load on the arteries between those two points.

The numbers are not a surprise at all...keep in mind, as others have stated, this was the only 'transit' project that was on paper enough to be "shovel ready", which is sad.

[dismayed]

Not to mention if you consider this as a starter line (or by the time it's implemented maybe it's not), and if MAPS3 has mass transit (which I would almost guarantee), this line could tie into other lines proposed in MAPS3, then voila ---we have more than one line in operation at about the same time, and we got the feds to pay for part of it that otherwise we might have had to foot all the bill on. I'm not sure why people are so upset at this or think it's optional/ up for discussion, as sgray stated, it's take it or leave it, either way we're paying for it, might as well route money to our state for a change. Some of these posters sound like the politicians we've had for decades having no problem routing money we should be getting to other states instead.

Yeah totally agree. How exciting would it be if that actually happens, and then the next step is to run lines from Edmond to Bricktown and Norman to Bricktown? Folks could get downtown or out to Tinker from the two largest suburbs in the metro.

[blangtang]

My perspective from living in Norman, top destinations:

Norman to WRWA; Norman to downtown OKC transit station

Bricktown is maybe 4th on my list.

bus rapid transit or regular bus service with increased frequency would be a great substitute or precursor for rail on similar routes.

[sgray]

Hey blangtang,

How is the intra-Norman bus service doing? I know it started up, what, a couple years back? I have yet to use it, but I am curious as to how it's doing.

It's operated by the University, isn't it?

[Superhyper]

Based on my own experience (I also live in Norman) CART works quite well. The buses are generally clean, on time, and safe. My experience my not represent everyone's though.

[blangtang]

Hey blangtang,

How is the intra-Norman bus service doing? I know it started up, what, a couple years back? I have yet to use it, but I am curious as to how it's doing.

It's operated by the University, isn't it?

yep, mostly funded by the Uni, since the late 80's, with a little bit thrown in by City of Norman-sad state of affairs. Although the City of Norman funded a recent study, which gave an upgrade/blueprint on how to carry on in the future-all depending on a city funding source.

CART(cleveland area rapid transit--"rapid" ha ha), yeah its mainly an OU based and funded service that interfaces with the OKC COTPA b.s.

the routes in Norman are decent, but mainly geared toward OU students (since its mainly funded by OU student fees). The City of Norman piggybacks.

the service drops off when classes are out-summer, xmas break, holidays, etc.

the thing that chides my hide, is how CART can get me up to OKC on a Fri afternoon, but I can't get back to Norman till Monday morning on the current schedule.

For example: i catch the last bus from Norman leaving around 5 pm up to downtown OKC for the Friday night NBA Thunder game. All is good and well, i get dumped downtown. Well i'm stuck in OKC till monday morning around 7 a.m. to catch a bus back to the OU campus in Norman.

COTPA + Cart=Major Suck!

I have nothing postive to say, the whole thing needs to be scrapped. COTPA is more focused on wasting money on river cruises and parking garages.

Long live the individual automobile!

[Superhyper]

While I can't say I agree with your overall sentiment, I have to agree that not having the Sooner Express route run on the weekends confuses me. I would think there would be quite a bit of demand for it, especially if it ran to bricktown at night!

[dmoor82]

Let's keep this thread on page one!I live in MWC and would like to see a light rail sys. built here!I would park my car around town center and take the train into bricktown anytime I needed! like for a thunder game and a movie or a night out!

[Superhyper]

Apparently the stimulus is very close to being passed, and they made no mentioned of the transportation money being taken out: Crunch time: Final stimulus details in the works - CNN.com