60 floor concepts on new Devon tower site.

[downtown20]

So Metro... You are yet another Oklahoman clinging tight to "tradition" rather than innovation, that's too bad. Great cities have skylines that make statements and many great skylines don't blend well. That being said... due to the space requirement for the Devon Tower, it's not going to grossly tower over the rest of the skyline... but that doesn't mean it cannot stand out. I guess since you have discussed this issue of design before... that means it is on people's minds... so why not continue discussing it? Just because you have put it behind you doesn't mean it is finished. I would like to see OKC move beyond traditional and boring architecture. You mentioned only building modern if we had more coming... but, where does it start? You have posted very rudely back to me twice now (maybe you had a bad day yesterday?)... thanks for the warm welcome!!

[OKCMallen]

Urban core sprawl? That would be a hard sale.

The priciple remains intact in my opinion, Kerry. Silly to have empty buildings downtown and build more.

[JWil]

I've heard rumors that once Devon moves, American Fidelity will take Devon's place in the building with the Devon name on it (first national? I forget).

My thing is... once companies like that move downtown and the Sonics get here and OKC becomes more of a national presence... I can see companies who are looking to relocate consider OKC after all that.

[Kerry]

OKCMallen - you are assuming all building are created equal. I would like to see FNC fill up also but I honestly think it would be better as a residential building. I just don't see how it can compete with a new class A office building. However, there is a demand for old residential properties. There is an old building similar to FNC that was converted to residential in Kansas City and it looks very cool. They would have to gut one of the additions to the FNC and mak it a parking garage but that should be do-able. The new Devon building will also contain more floor space than all 3 FNC buildings combined. It wouldn't make sense to move in to a building only to run out of space in 2 years.

[OKCMallen]

OKCMallen - you are assuming all building are created equal. I would like to see FNC fill up also but I honestly think it would be better as a residential building. I just don't see how it can compete with a new class A office building. However, there is a demand for old residential properties. There is an old building similar to FNC that was converted to residential in Kansas City and it looks very cool. They would have to gut one of the additions to the FNC and mak it a parking garage but that should be do-able. The new Devon building will also contain more floor space than all 3 FNC buildings combined. It wouldn't make sense to move in to a building only to run out of space in 2 years.

Kerry, I am more than aware that there are different grades of office space. You're backing up your point with a personal dream (i.e.- FNC would become residential). I'm backing mine up with logic- empty buildings and half-empty buildings downtown is a bad thing when they can be brought up to par more cheaply than building a brand new skyscraper. You start with OKC's downtown, and I'll start with the same, and if we hypothetically made choices in line with our viewpoints, I guarantee mine will be more vibrant and economically successful.

[metro]

So Metro... You are yet another Oklahoman clinging tight to "tradition" rather than innovation, that's too bad. Great cities have skylines that make statements and many great skylines don't blend well. That being said... due to the space requirement for the Devon Tower, it's not going to grossly tower over the rest of the skyline... but that doesn't mean it cannot stand out. I guess since you have discussed this issue of design before... that means it is on people's minds... so why not continue discussing it? Just because you have put it behind you doesn't mean it is finished. I would like to see OKC move beyond traditional and boring architecture. You mentioned only building modern if we had more coming... but, where does it start? You have posted very rudely back to me twice now (maybe you had a bad day yesterday?)... thanks for the warm welcome!!

downtown20, not in the least bit. I know your new, but I encourage you to read some of my old posts. I'm actually a young twentysomething trying to change the old image of OKC. I LOVEEEEEEE Dubai, Shanghai and that type of architecture. I am hoping Devon WILL do something like that. If you re-read my post, I simply summarized the last several years worth of posts on the new Devon Tower (pre-announcement speculation as well), that most posters on this site want something iconic, but not futuristic. I am a futurist 100%. I encourage you to go back and look at the other threads on Devon. I posted some renderings I'd like to see from NYC to Dubai to Shanghai. Sorry for the "bluntness" of my post. I was just trying to get to the point. I thought I did give a welcome in the "Introductions" section of the site. Maybe it didn't go through. Anyhow, I'm glad to hear about your comments from NYC and Tulsa and how you love and moved back to OKC! Welcome and you seem like you'll be a welcome addition to the site.

[Spartan]

JWil, reading most posts from a lot of users and myself, it's a good possibility more could be on the way. Paycom recently put their Memorial Rd. new HQ on hold (hopefully they could be convinced that far far west Memorial Rd. is not sustainable and that downtown would be a better fit). Also American Fidelity has already stated they want to be downtown and they have a decent size workforce. There are a few other companies considering it also. I imagine they are more followers than leaders and want to see Devon get down there, see if the NBA comes and possibly Core To Shore start. Once they see all the going-ons downtown will offer in the near future, I imagine many more companies will finally realize downtown is where it's at for quality of life options for employees.

Paycom is building like not even 50,000 SF out on Memorial. Paycom is also a really small company, it's beyond me why you keep bringing them up. In fact Crusader Energy Corp and AAA are building a lot more office space on Memorial than Paycom is. There will be hundreds of thousands of SF of office space in QSV and at the Kilpatrick and Broadway (actually at 122nd). The far north OKC office submarket is growing and Paycom is actually one of the smaller projects up there, so it's strange, really, that you keep bringing Paycom up over and over. Paycom is just a company that has been suburban its whole life, it's workers live on the north side, it's President is most comfortable with Memorial, so they think it's a good fit to them. You can talk till you're blue in the face about style and sustainability but some people just want what they're most familiar and comfortable with, especially smaller companies.

[rondvu]

I found this blip on a rotating building. Can you image the ruckas a building like this would cause? It in its self would be a tourist attaction.

Yahoo!

[dismayed]

I'm concerned Oklahoma may be too conservative a place to come up with anything really innovative. I mean when we think "big" we apparently think of building gigantic oil derricks. What the hell is that all about. Apparently we have a lot of architecture students and professionals here... maybe one of you can tell me that we have a firm here who is doing ground-breaking work and give me some hope.

[Spartan]

Yes, there are firms in OKC that are doing ground-breaking work. TAParchitecture is a collaboration between Anthony McDermid and Hans Butzer (who teaches at OU), and they do a lot of really edgy urban design--they did most of the Triangle projects. Rand Elliott is pioneering his own style of Okie modernism by mixing elements that are native to Oklahoma with cutting edge contemporary design. There are several smaller guys who have an outstanding reputation for smaller projects. Brian Fitzsimmons is well known throughout the community for projects akin to his house in Midtown or his project at Lincoln and 7th (I think). Randy Floyd is very small scale, but she is well-respected as a good preservationist. There is a lot of creativity in OKC, a lot more than people who even live here and can't get past the "conservative city" stigma would imagine.

I'm a very conservative guy. A lot of architects are. A lot of very creative types are. So I don't really appreciate the innuendos of conservative bashing that exist when people bemoan the fact that we are "conservative city." Howabout when I'm out on my own and in charge of my own firm, I just take all of my ground-breaking projects to Houston, eh? jk..

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Spartan, I don't see this as a values thing . . . conservative vs liberal . . . wtfever that means. I agree that there is plenty of good architectural talent here in Okie City . . . some of it gets well showcased and some doesn't. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of really bad architecture being done. Far too often, clients are just seeking to get "their project concept" committed to paper rather than subscribing to a purposeful architectural process that considers use, zoning, site, economics, context etc.. They just want their dumb assed project built and they don't allow much creativity to creep in. btw, some of your info is out of date or inaccurate; Hans is now working in the same office as David Wanzer . . . J3 on Film Row . . . . very nice office space in the historic Oklahoma Theater Supply Building. Also Wanzer did the house at 7th and Lincoln and the other modernist project a few blocks west on Oklahoma. David Wanzer was recently appointed to the OKC Board of Adjustment replacing Donald Criswell, whose term had expired. Until the last few years, the OKCBOA was a "candy jar" for good-ol-boys wanting variances from zoning and regulation that stood between them and making a little money . . . often at the expense of good planning and appropriate land use . . . city politics at its worst.

Things in OKC are improving on many fronts . . . little by little . . .

[CuatrodeMayo]

Yes, there are firms in OKC that are doing ground-breaking work. TAParchitecture is a collaboration between Anthony McDermid and Hans Butzer (who teaches at OU), and they do a lot of really edgy urban design--they did most of the Triangle projects. Rand Elliott is pioneering his own style of Okie modernism by mixing elements that are native to Oklahoma with cutting edge contemporary design. There are several smaller guys who have an outstanding reputation for smaller projects. Brian Fitzsimmons is well known throughout the community for projects akin to his house in Midtown or his project at Lincoln and 7th (I think). Randy Floyd is very small scale, but she is well-respected as a good preservationist. There is a lot of creativity in OKC, a lot.

Not to mention the firm that designed of one of the first LEED certified buildings in Oklahoma and is doingthe Flatiron project...

[okiebadger]

PUN OF THE DAY

Architects doing ground breaking work

[sroberts24]

if the Devon tower looks anything like any of these, i wont be disappointed

[dismayed]

Yes, there are firms in OKC that are doing ground-breaking work. TAParchitecture is a collaboration between Anthony McDermid and Hans Butzer (who teaches at OU), and they do a lot of really edgy urban design--they did most of the Triangle projects. Rand Elliott is pioneering his own style of Okie modernism by mixing elements that are native to Oklahoma with cutting edge contemporary design. There are several smaller guys who have an outstanding reputation for smaller projects. Brian Fitzsimmons is well known throughout the community for projects akin to his house in Midtown or his project at Lincoln and 7th (I think). Randy Floyd is very small scale, but she is well-respected as a good preservationist. There is a lot of creativity in OKC, a lot more than people who even live here and can't get past the "conservative city" stigma would imagine.

I'm a very conservative guy. A lot of architects are. A lot of very creative types are. So I don't really appreciate the innuendos of conservative bashing that exist when people bemoan the fact that we are "conservative city." Howabout when I'm out on my own and in charge of my own firm, I just take all of my ground-breaking projects to Houston, eh? jk..

Conservative as in conserving the status quo, keeping things the same style, not branching out into some radical new type of architecture.... I wasn't being political, I was being nomenclature accurate.

I'm happy that TAP and Triangle are out there doing what they do. I don't really find anything they do that ground-breaking though. I very nearly purchased one of their downtown condos recently. Unfortunately I just didn't care for how the project turned out.

Who's the guy that did the modern modular home on Lincoln? I do like that a lot. Is that the Fitzsimmons' house that you speak of? I know one is for sale, or at least was about a month ago.

Do any of you architectural types read Cosmopolitan Home or Dwell Magazine? I really like some of the things that they highlight.

As far as office buildings and public space goes... an example there of something I consider really bold and innovative is the Seattle Public Library. Google it up. I think the Transamerica Building in San Fran is very interesting and definitely a unique piece of that city's skyline even though its design was not all that radical. The Smurfit-Stone Building in Chicago is pretty interesting too and yet also gives off a somewhat conservative (read: blending in with the older surrounding buildings) vibe as well.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Rem Koolhaas did the Seattle library. If you want to see ground-breaking, google his name or "OMA" his firm. Also, UN Studio. Both are dutch firms.

Right there with ya, dismayed. That's my kind of design.

[metro]

dismayed: I'm happy that TAP and Triangle are out there doing what they do. I don't really find anything they do that ground-breaking though. I very nearly purchased one of their downtown condos recently. Unfortunately I just didn't care for how the project turned out.

Who's the guy that did the modern modular home on Lincoln? I do like that a lot. Is that the Fitzsimmons' house that you speak of? I know one is for sale, or at least was about a month ago.

Do any of you architectural types read Cosmopolitan Home or Dwell Magazine? I really like some of the things that they highlight.

dismayed, couldn't agree more. TAP and others do a good job, but it's not exactly "ground breaking innovation". You've seen it before in other cities. Rand Elliott has done some nice stuff though.

Brian Fitzsimmons home is on NW 7th and Francis. There are several modern modular homes going up in the area.

I'm not an "architect" or "architect type" but I do have a fairly good eye for architecture and read Dwell Magazine as well as others. They do highlight some nice stuff, more stuff I'd like to see in OKC. One of these days when I hit the jackpot, I'll build something like you see in that magazine, but it will have to be sustainable with geothermal, solar panels, etc. I'm going off grid.

[OKCMallen]

I'm going off grid.

Nice!

[dismayed]

Rem Koolhaas did the Seattle library. If you want to see ground-breaking, google his name or "OMA" his firm. Also, UN Studio. Both are dutch firms.

Right there with ya, dismayed. That's my kind of design.

I just got done Googling OMA, and yeah that is some cool stuff. Not surprised it's from the Dutch, I think some of the most incredible architecture anywhere is in Amsterdam and The Hague.

[dismayed]

dismayed, couldn't agree more. TAP and others do a good job, but it's not exactly "ground breaking innovation". You've seen it before in other cities. Rand Elliott has done some nice stuff though.

Brian Fitzsimmons home is on NW 7th and Francis. There are several modern modular homes going up in the area.

I'm not an "architect" or "architect type" but I do have a fairly good eye for architecture and read Dwell Magazine as well as others. They do highlight some nice stuff, more stuff I'd like to see in OKC. One of these days when I hit the jackpot, I'll build something like you see in that magazine, but it will have to be sustainable with geothermal, solar panels, etc. I'm going off grid.

I love the products that Dwell and Cosmopolitan Home offer. I have bought so many things from the vendors listed at the back of those magazines. It's amazing how modern you can make the inside of even a traditional house look with the right touches. I just recently caved in and bought a modernfan.com if you've seen them advertise in there. Can't wait to put it up.

[solitude]

I just recently caved in and bought a modernfan.com if you've seen them advertise in there. Can't wait to put it up.

Which one did you get? I like several of them, but the Velo would fit nicely in my house. Thanks for the link!

[metro]

Actually Lowe's has two fans similar to the Velo, I ended up buying one for our bedroom, but they had an even cooler one even closer to the Velo but had sharp metal blades and wouldn't be good for a short ceiling directly over the bed if you know what I mean.

[dismayed]

Which one did you get? I like several of them, but the Velo would fit nicely in my house. Thanks for the link!

I went with the Pharos:

http://modernfan.com/images/products_pharosMN.jpg

[mturner]

Yes, there are firms in OKC that are doing ground-breaking work. TAParchitecture is a collaboration between Anthony McDermid and Hans Butzer (who teaches at OU), and they do a lot of really edgy urban design--they did most of the Triangle projects. Rand Elliott is pioneering his own style of Okie modernism by mixing elements that are native to Oklahoma with cutting edge contemporary design. There are several smaller guys who have an outstanding reputation for smaller projects. Brian Fitzsimmons is well known throughout the community for projects akin to his house in Midtown or his project at Lincoln and 7th (I think). Randy Floyd is very small scale, but she is well-respected as a good preservationist. There is a lot of creativity in OKC, a lot more than people who even live here and can't get past the "conservative city" stigma would imagine.

I'm a very conservative guy. A lot of architects are. A lot of very creative types are. So I don't really appreciate the innuendos of conservative bashing that exist when people bemoan the fact that we are "conservative city." Howabout when I'm out on my own and in charge of my own firm, I just take all of my ground-breaking projects to Houston, eh? jk..

It's interesting where good design comes from. IMHO good design is more than just the envelope, it's also thoughtful itneriors, placement of the mundae ( vents) good detailed drawings that lets the builder know what the designer has in mind. In Oklahoma there's some real talent. Not all good designers are architects, so they're confined to residential and small pre existing buildings. Not all Designers though are good. Not to get the debate riled up here, but I agree that not all all ARchitects deliver good design. I think Oklahoma is lucky to have licensed Architects, as mentioned before (Elliott, Fitzsimmons, TAP) who do try interesting work and execute it well (drawings construction administration, working with clients etc). Wanzer is a designer, Butzer (no longer with TAP BTW)who has a great Architecture background and work history isn't licensed, so again these guys are confined to projects that don't require licensure. Floyd does do excellent work. She's also done some work on our state capitol building.
I'm waiting to see what else comes up around Oklahoma City.

[Just the facts]

I was just looking at this old thread that showed pictures of what a Devon Tower could look like. I wish they had gone with a more urban design like this one. Not the design of the tower necessarily, but pushing the buildings out to the street and creating positive interior space instead of negative exterior space.