Access Oklahoma Turnpike Projects

[josefromtulsa]

Whatever the case is the actual counts were higher than initially projected and I guarantee if you are already biased against roads in general or just these projects(not saying you are) and using these numbers as a “see this road shouldn’t have been built” argument you will be nowhere to be found when they inevitably jump to 50+ thousand cars a day which will happen. Plenty of roads are built and see low traffic volumes for sometime and prove to be valuable in the future. That’s called planning.
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I know what planning is. Its what I do for a living. No need to be condescending when presented with data.

[Plutonic Panda]

I know what planning is. It’s what I do for a living. No need to be condescending when presented with data.

You plan for a living but don’t understand the concept of the traffic growth? You also don’t realize this is part of a larger project either? So if you understand it why scrutinize it? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you. . .

[jn1780]

You see more of an impact when it comes to freight. Saving 15 to 30 minutes to avoid the city during rush hour traffic is a bigger deal when you have deadlines to meet.

[SEMIweather]

You see more of an impact when it comes to freight. Saving 15 to 30 minutes to avoid the city during rush hour traffic is a bigger deal when you have deadlines to meet.

Yeah my belief is that the biggest benefit of the Kickapoo will be to take a good chunk of the I-35 --> I-40/I-44 truck traffic (and vice versa) out of the city once the south extension to I-35 is completed.

[gopokes88]

You see more of an impact when it comes to freight. Saving 15 to 30 minutes to avoid the city during rush hour traffic is a bigger deal when you have deadlines to meet.

Yep using this to get to 44/Turner from 35 is going to be a massive benefit

[Mesta Parker]

Regarding who currently uses the Kickapoo, I know people in Shawnee that use it when traveling to the Memorial area of OKC to avoid traveling through the center of the city.

[bombermwc]

I'm not a fan of toll roads, but i will say that it makes it a lot easier to get up to the Harrah area than stopping every mile going up Anderson or something.

Honestly, i think once the southern spur is connected, you'll see a LOT more traffic on this east side. For I-44 traffic, you'll have the ability to totally bypass OKC. Now, i dont have any idea how many trucking companies allow their drivers to use toll roads when there's an alternative, but it'll be there for those that can use it.

No it's not a main artery right now, but I expect that if they add more exist (there really aren't many today), then you'll see more development spurred at those areas.

[Plutonic Panda]

From The Journal Record:

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority intends to adjust its route for a toll road located west of Lake Thunderbird if the state Supreme Court allows it to sell bonds for the project.

As prompted by the court, the authority last week filed a response to the pending bond validation proceeding for its $5 billion Access Oklahoma plan. The court asked the agency to explain why it allowed the approval of $500 million in bonds for the plan to expire and whether realignment of a southern extension toll road should be addressed before the validation proceeding completes.

If the state Supreme Court decides to validate the bonds, the OTA will resubmit an application to the Council of Bond Oversight and work with the Bureau of Reclamation to change the alignment of the planned south extension, which runs north and south just west of Lake Thunderbird, according to an OTA release.

Opponents of the OTA’s extension proposal raised various concerns.

Michael Nash, who will take over as the councilor for Ward 5 in east Norman next month, said a south extension toll road in the Lake Thunderbird watershed is not legislatively authorized, referencing a law implemented in 1987 that allowed for certain turnpike expansion routes.

“The OTA believes the Supreme Court should approve whatever they put forward,” Nash said. “It’s the most brazen act of disregard for the public and for any process that we’ve established in our state government. It’s just outright disrespectful to the people that live here.”

State Rep. Danny Sterling, R-Tecumseh, said he’s unsure how the OTA can adjust the route for the southern extension toll road.

There’s just not that much room to go further west,” Sterling said. “You’re getting into the heart of east Norman residential areas.”

Sterling said he believes a need for additional infrastructure exists in east Norman, but residents in the area of the new route deserve more transparency in the process than what was given to those in the path of the originally proposed plan.

State Sen. Mary Boren, D-Norman, said following the February 2022 rollout of the OTA’s plan, Norman residents knew they were going to have to take care of their legal rights.

“They knew they weren’t going to be able to trust the OTA to respect and honor their property rights,” Boren said.

The court required the OTA’s response following its ruling that reversed a district court decision that the authority violated the Open Meetings Act when it unveiled turnpike expansion plans at the tail-end of a February 2022 board meeting without sufficiently disclosing its details in a meeting agenda.

The Bureau of Reclamation in January denied the OTA’s initial request for usage of federal land and easements across east Norman title land to connect its proposed south extension to an east-west connector road.

Following the denial, the OTA believes a route is possible in another area across its easements.

Reclamation told the OTA in January that it doesn’t object to the authority routing the turnpike across Norman Project Pipeline and flowage easements if the crossings are designed in a way that doesn’t interfere with “Reclamation’s easement interests or impact operation, maintenance and replacement” of Norman pipeline infrastructure.

- https://journalrecord.com/2023/06/21...anda@gmail.com

[Plutonic Panda]

From the map you can just transformative this is going to be the south metro. This will be an absolute game changer and will spur TONS of new development. Buckle up and I can’t wait to see the massive stack interchange at I-35.

[shavethewhales]

It will generate tons of new sprawl for sure. I'm not hugely excited about seeing endless tracts of copy-paste houses, gas stations, and the same handful of fast food joints every few miles. Still, the silver lining is that getting to DFW and Norman from Tulsa will be easier, not to mention the obvious metro benefits for OKC.

I just wish growth didn't equal mindless sprawl.

[Plutonic Panda]

I love sprawl because it’s fun to drive really fast on freeways and plus you find these cool and quirky mom and pop shops in the endless strip malls every now and then and it allows for affordable housing. Cities that establish urban growth boundaries has higher housing costs.

I wish we had a metro rail system to connect all of this before it gets filled in with sprawl.

[cinnamonjock]

This is from the city of norman's website:
https://ago-item-storage.s3.amazonaw...b9af16b5907185

[stlokc]

It will generate tons of new sprawl for sure. I'm not hugely excited about seeing endless tracts of copy-paste houses, gas stations, and the same handful of fast food joints every few miles. Still, the silver lining is that getting to DFW and Norman from Tulsa will be easier, not to mention the obvious metro benefits for OKC.

I just wish growth didn't equal mindless sprawl.

I absolutely agree with you in theory about sprawl. But I don't see this generating a lot of sprawl because one you get north of Norman it is so far removed from any existing development. Who are the people that want to live in close contact to that highway as opposed to a highway in a part of town that is much closer to things?

I-35 has been in place my entire lifetime and there has not much growth along it in North OKC with the exception of some industrial and highway-related uses. If there isn't cut-and-paste sprawl there, I fail to see it popping up that far east.

Maybe I just feel ornery about this whole highway in general. But I just don't see it.

[macfoucin]

**removed**

[macfoucin]

This is from the city of norman's website:
https://ago-item-storage.s3.amazonaw...b9af16b5907185

I'm getting an access denied error when picking the link and the images are too small to see. Any way to get a better quality image added?

[cinnamonjock]

I'm getting an access denied error when picking the link and the images are too small to see. Any way to get a better quality image added?

Oh sure. The PDF is linked on this page under PlanNorman: https://www.normanok.gov/your-govern...nning-projects

The maps are on pages 97 and 99. They refer to Norman's urban growth boundary. Though not official, all of the area in grey is meant to remain rural in character and have properties ten acres or more in size.

[bombermwc]

In regard to sprawl, i think it comes down to if they plan on including exists or not. On the northern leg, they do not have but a couple of exits on the entire path. If you have to drive a few miles to get to the onramp/offramp, it will put a damper on the growth near the road. And remember, these things are going where there is no frontage rd either. So its only at those mile grids where there's even an option right now. Unless someone chooses to develop a frontage, there's very little in the way of commercial opportunity on this entire stretch.

[jdross1982]

In regard to sprawl, i think it comes down to if they plan on including exists or not. On the northern leg, they do not have but a couple of exits on the entire path. If you have to drive a few miles to get to the onramp/offramp, it will put a damper on the growth near the road. And remember, these things are going where there is no frontage rd either. So its only at those mile grids where there's even an option right now. Unless someone chooses to develop a frontage, there's very little in the way of commercial opportunity on this entire stretch.

Which further benefits the pass through traffic as there is little exiting or merging traffic slowing trucks down.

[bombermwc]

So that's either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your take.

If you're looking for it to offload local traffic or help spur development, well it's not currently set up to do that.
If you're looking for it to only offload through traffic, well it appears that this is going to be it's #1 job.

[stlokc]

So that's either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your take.

If you're looking for it to offload local traffic or help spur development, well it's not currently set up to do that.
If you're looking for it to only offload through traffic, well it appears that this is going to be it's #1 job.

Yes, I think it's number 1 job will be to take through-traffic going from Tulsa to Norman, or Tulsa to Texas. Or vice versa. For those people, it will shave time off their travel. Which is good for them, and will marginally improve the traffic situation on I-35 for a few years. It will not be that great for OKC's economy and for travel-related businesses along I-35 but the highway will serve a purpose.

[jdross1982]

So that's either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your take.

If you're looking for it to offload local traffic or help spur development, well it's not currently set up to do that.
If you're looking for it to only offload through traffic, well it appears that this is going to be it's #1 job.

I think initially it will be built mostly for pass-through. It will be available for more than that once development dictates it.

[macfoucin]

I see many benefits to the South Extension. For anyone South of Norman along or near I-35 travelling east on I-44, I-40, or going to Thunderbird it will be a great option. And of course vice versa. I can even see this being used as an alternative route to Tinker during peak traffic times.
Noble/Slaughterville will have direct access to 1-35. Another S Canadian river crossing has been badly needed for years and this helps with that as well.

[Pete]

The ACCESS Oklahoma turnpike expansion will be allowed to proceed following a split ruling Tuesday by the Oklahoma Supreme Court to validate the $5 billion toll road expansion plan.

Looks like it's all systems go for the turnpike plan.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...d/70506013007/

[Plutonic Panda]

Awesome news!

[jedicurt]

agreed. this is great news. hopefully we will now get an updated timeline and project order. i'm really hoping for the bridge across the river from 44 to 35 being done quickly.