Penn Square Mall

[Questor]

Very interesting. Cool to see some names there that 'couldn't possibly happen' in okc...

[bombermwc]

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

New parking garages are going to be a must if they ever expand anything though. That place isn't super friendly to park at on a weekend, much less near a holiday. And when they filled up the outparcels, it got even worse. I'm curious if the infrastructure of the building would allow for a 3rd level?

[rcjunkie]

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

New parking garages are going to be a must if they ever expand anything though. That place isn't super friendly to park at on a weekend, much less near a holiday. And when they filled up the outparcels, it got even worse. I'm curious if the infrastructure of the building would allow for a 3rd level?

Nothing, but some associate price with quality and elite status.

[soonerliberal]

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

Quality of brands. You aren't going to get Burberry, Diesel, or True Religion (for example) at a JcPenney, but you can at a Nordstrom.

While this is not official, I tend to view the department stores as follows:
Tier 1: Sears
Tier 2: JcPenney and Kohls
Tier 3: Lower end Macy's and Dillards, Lord and Taylor
Tier 4: Mid-level Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales
Tier 5: High-end Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Barney's, Saks Fifth Avenue

[metro]

Bomber, it could be outward expansion, not upward.

[BG918]

Quality of brands. You aren't going to get Burberry, Diesel, or True Religion (for example) at a JcPenney, but you can at a Nordstrom.

While this is not official, I tend to view the department stores as follows:
Tier 1: Sears
Tier 2: JcPenney and Kohls
Tier 3: Lower end Macy's and Dillards, Lord and Taylor
Tier 4: Mid-level Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales
Tier 5: High-end Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Barney's, Saks Fifth Avenue

Even the nicest Macy's are still pretty much like Dillard's, and most of them are not even as nice. The Penn Square Dillard's is much nicer than the Macy's IMO. I would put Bloomingdales and Barney's on the highest level just because they are not in very many cities, while most large cities have either a Saks, Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus, or all three.

[soonerliberal]

Even the nicest Macy's are still pretty much like Dillard's, and most of them are not even as nice. The Penn Square Dillard's is much nicer than the Macy's IMO. I would put Bloomingdales and Barney's on the highest level just because they are not in very many cities, while most large cities have either a Saks, Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus, or all three.

Fair enough. Regardless, the quality of products contained at a Nordstrom, Saks or Bloomingdales is much different than that at JcPenney.

[Patrick]

I'm curious though....what's the difference in having Nordstrom's, Saks, etc. as department stores in Penn that makes them so much better than what's currently there? I honestly don't know because I've never been in those stores. From the outside, it seems like it would be like adding a Kohl's in comparison to Penny's....Same basic store, different name.

New parking garages are going to be a must if they ever expand anything though. That place isn't super friendly to park at on a weekend, much less near a holiday. And when they filled up the outparcels, it got even worse. I'm curious if the infrastructure of the building would allow for a 3rd level?

No, the infrastructure will not support a 3rd level. Look at the picture I attacked. Plans are to expand the mall outward. And the parking problem at Penn Square is the same as the parking problem in Bricktown: it's all perception. There's plenty of parking at the mall. I always go straight ot the garage in the back, and I never have a problem. The folks having problems are those trying to get a close parking space in the front of the mall.

Nordstrom doesn't even compare to what's currently offered at Penn Square or any other center in the city. The clothes at Nordstrom are far superior in quality, materials, workmanship, etc. than clothes sold at Dillards. And, you can't even compare a Nordstrom to a JC Peney or Kohls, much less a Dillards. They're in completely different leagues. JC Penney and Kohls sell cheap, low to mid level clothing. They're only a step above Wal-Mart/Target.

[Patrick]

Nothing, but some associate price with quality and elite status.

Well for the most part, with men's clothes, you do get what you pay for. No way you can even begin to compare a Polo Ralph Lauren shirt from Dillards to a Croft and Barrow shirt from Kohls or a Stafford shirt from JC Penney. I wear business clothes every day, and I used to buy stuff from JC Penney and Kohls, but I'd only have to replace it after a few times of wearing and washing. I'm now buying clothes from Brooks Brothers, Dillards, Macy's, Nordstrom, Jos A. Bank, etc. and those clothes are far superior in quality and workmanship. No comparison.

[Patrick]

Quality of brands. You aren't going to get Burberry, Diesel, or True Religion (for example) at a JcPenney, but you can at a Nordstrom.

While this is not official, I tend to view the department stores as follows:
Tier 1: Sears
Tier 2: JcPenney and Kohls
Tier 3: Lower end Macy's and Dillards, Lord and Taylor
Tier 4: Mid-level Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales
Tier 5: High-end Macy's, Neiman Marcus, Barney's, Saks Fifth Avenue

Yeah, I completely agree with your tier system. If it wasn't for Lands End holding them up, Sears would be nothing more than an over-priced Target or Wal-Mart. Their clothes are about on the same level. And JC Penney and Kohls are pretty fairly even. They cater more to the working class, lower to mid middle class.

And Macy's stores do vary depending on the store. The Oklahoma stores are more tier 3, but stores in New york City, LA, etc. obviously fall into Tier 5.

[Patrick]

Fair enough. Regardless, the quality of products contained at a Nordstrom, Saks or Bloomingdales is much different than that at JcPenney.

Agree completely. There's no comparison.

[betts]

There are (or were) Tier 5 Dillards as well. I've shopped at one in Scottsdale in the past.

[MikeOKC]

Yeah, I completely agree with your tier system. If it wasn't for Lands End holding them up, Sears would be nothing more than an over-priced Target or Wal-Mart. Their clothes are about on the same level. And JC Penney and Kohls are pretty fairly even. They cater more to the working class, lower to mid middle class.

And Macy's stores do vary depending on the store. The Oklahoma stores are more tier 3, but stores in New york City, LA, etc. obviously fall into Tier 5.

Sears is successful with its dry goods. Hardware, washers & dryers, lawnmowers, etc. I agree their clothes aren't top-notch. But they have some great stuff...Sears exclusive brands that have great respect in their respective lines....

Craftsman
Kenmore
DieHard
Coldspot

[Patrick]

I don't think Kenmore is as well respected as it used to be. But, yeah, I will admit that Craftsman tools are still pretty top-notch.

[rcjunkie]

I don't think Kenmore is as well respected as it used to be. But, yeah, I will admit that Craftsman tools are still pretty top-notch.

Kenmore is, and has always been, one of the best selling appliance's, Kenmore products are made by Whirlpool.

[bombermwc]

Just for the record, my comment about going UPward was in addition to the OUTward expansion. I can obviously read a map...but you can't add that much small retail with the Outward model the way that diagram has it.

So if there's this much of a question about Penn needing/wanting stores like this, is there maybe a better location? Seems like we're a stones throw away from being a Galleria at that point.

[Larry OKC]

Well we DID have the spot for that all picked out and planed but didn't happen, now you will have to talk to Devon if you want to build it there. LOL There is always CrossRoads!

[NoOceanHere]

No, the infrastructure will not support a 3rd level. Look at the picture I attacked. Plans are to expand the mall outward. And the parking problem at Penn Square is the same as the parking problem in Bricktown: it's all perception. There's plenty of parking at the mall. I always go straight ot the garage in the back, and I never have a problem. The folks having problems are those trying to get a close parking space in the front of the mall.

Nordstrom doesn't even compare to what's currently offered at Penn Square or any other center in the city. The clothes at Nordstrom are far superior in quality, materials, workmanship, etc. than clothes sold at Dillards. And, you can't even compare a Nordstrom to a JC Peney or Kohls, much less a Dillards. They're in completely different leagues. JC Penney and Kohls sell cheap, low to mid level clothing. They're only a step above Wal-Mart/Target.

How dare you compare JC Penney to Target and Wal Mart! That's a slap in the face of Target and Wal Mart. I think people are more embarassed to say they purchased something from Penneys than from Target - they are not the Penney's they were in the 70s.

[bbhill]

How dare you compare JC Penney to Target and Wal Mart! That's a slap in the face of Target and Wal Mart. I think people are more embarassed to say they purchased something from Penneys than from Target - they are not the Penney's they were in the 70s.

I've always found Target's clothes overpriced and of much lower quality than those of Kohl's/JCPenney. . .

[bombermwc]

Agreed.

[Patrick]

How dare you compare JC Penney to Target and Wal Mart! That's a slap in the face of Target and Wal Mart. I think people are more embarassed to say they purchased something from Penneys than from Target - they are not the Penney's they were in the 70s.

Let's see: JC Penney carries quality name brands like Dockers, Van Heusen, Izod, Clairborne, and fairly decent store brands like St. John's Bay and Stafford. I think all of those are better quality than Wal-Mart's best brand, George, which doesn't begin to compare, and then there's their cheaper brands like Puritan and Faded Glory which are complete garbage. And Target's clothes aren't that much better than Wal-Mart. I agree that JC Penney isn't the same store it was back in the day, but the quality of their clothes, while nowhere near Brooks Brothers, Jos A. Bank, Ralph Lauren, Boss, Nautica, Calvin Klein, Kenneth Cole, etc., is far better than clothes at Target and Wal-Mart.

More embarassed to say they purchased something from Penney's than Target? Really? If embarassment is an issue, I'd be more embarassed to tell someone I was wearing a pair of Merona pants than a pair of Dockers.

[kevinpate]

I don't buy many clothes (why deprive kiddos and the lovely of easy peasy gift giving?) But I was very happy the first time I received a St. John's Bay polo from JCP, and happier that they actually carry sizes that fit folk like me, and that they do so in more than white and black. Not everyone does.

[Patrick]

I'm a physician, so I have to wear dress clothes on a daily basis, so I put a lot of wear and tear on clothing. I've actually been pretty impressed with Stafford Super Shirts over the years, especially for the price. I don't think they're as good as my Brooks Brothers or Polo Ralph Lauren shirts, but they're above average. Definitely better than anything Target or Wal-Mart sells. And St. John's Bay isn't too bad.

[metro]

I'm a physician, so I have to wear dress clothes on a daily basis, so I put a lot of wear and tear on clothing. I've actually been pretty impressed with Stafford Super Shirts over the years, especially for the price. I don't think they're as good as my Brooks Brothers or Polo Ralph Lauren shirts, but they're above average. Definitely better than anything Target or Wal-Mart sells. And St. John's Bay isn't too bad.

Ever read Millionaire Next door, millionaire mind or any of Dr.Thomas J. Stanleys or Dave Ramseys books? This very reason is why on average plumbers and auctioneers have higher net worth on average over doctors. Plumbers and auctioneers make good money, but no one expects them to buy expensive clothes, homes, cars, etc, but they do for doctors and lawyers.

[Larry OKC]

True and plumbers, auctioneers etc don't have the multi-years of expensive college education to pay for either.