Toll Every Interstate

[Jersey Boss]

Why wouldn't you just raise the gas tax? It's a fixed amount per gallon that's the same today as it was 20 years ago. You don't have to be an economist to know if you dont adjust it for inflation then of course it's going to be insufficient 20 years later unless you cut spending by an equal amount as consumed by inflation which in this case is about 35%. Sure, toll roads could be used to generate the money but it would incur some amount of initial outlay and also on going operating costs that far exceeds the cost of simply raising the existing tax. Either way the costs will be paid by the motorists so what difference does it make. It seems like a no brainer but then again I'm not an expert on the subject. I'm sure there's a sprawl factor I'm not considering.

Its just somewhat saddening that within my lifetime the richest nation ever known on this planet has come to the point where roads are seen as an unaffordable luxury.

I think just raising the fuel tax is not a long term solution. Electric vehicles, increased mileage of gas and diesel engines as well as alternate fuel sources make this a bit impractical. Taxing tires, or auto parts, taxing based on gvw everytime a vehicle changes hands or other constants would provide a smoother way. Of course tolls also, as drivers directly using the system should pay more than those who do not.

[Stew]

I think just raising the fuel tax is not a long term solution. Electric vehicles, increased mileage of gas and diesel engines as well as alternate fuel sources make this a bit impractical. Taxing tires, or auto parts, taxing based on gvw everytime a vehicle changes hands or other constants would provide a smoother way. Of course tolls also, as drivers directly using the system should pay more than those who do not.

Raising the gas tax is impractical but retrofitting the nations 45,000+ miles of interstate to account for millions of trips per day and creating a system to bill millions of customers isn't? Okay, I'm from misouri on this one, show me. Electric cars aren't even a blip on the usage radar and won't be for decades (if even then) and higher average MPH could simply be factored into the gas tax rate. Also, lets be real here. There is no way the "toll the entire freeway system" is going to happen anytime soon.

[HangryHippo]

Raising the gas tax is impractical but retrofitting the nations 45,000+ miles of interstate to account for millions of trips per day and creating a system to bill millions of customers isn't? Okay, I'm from misouri on this one, show me. Electric cars aren't even a blip on the usage radar and won't be for decades (if even then) and higher average MPH could simply be factored into the gas tax rate. Also, lets be real here. There is no way the "toll the entire freeway system" is going to happen anytime soon.

The difference is that there is a significant upfront cost to tolling the interstate system, but tolling the roads is actually quite practical once you get past the initial investment. Raising the gas tax just isn't practical for the reasons shared above.

[Stew]

The difference is that there is a significant upfront cost to tolling the interstate system, but tolling the roads is actually quite practical once you get past the initial investment. Raising the gas tax just isn't practical for the reasons shared above.

Let me get this straight. It's impractical because of electric cars and modest improvements in the nations overall MPG? I don't see it.

[kwhey]

Do you have a better idea? The problem doesn't go away just because the proposed solution is stupid.

So I have to have a better idea to say something huh? Excuse me Kim Jong-un. I just think it is stupid idea. I will just stay off the interstates.

[Mel]

The weight of the vehicle should be a factor also. The heavier it is the more it tears up the road. Your road pass would be issued with that info and should be affixed to your windshield like the pike pass is.

[venture]

So I have to have a better idea to say something huh? Excuse me Kim Jong-un. I just think it is stupid idea. I will just stay off the interstates.

That would also be a positive outcome. Reduced traffic on the interstates means less of a need to keep adding lanes and reduce overall maintenance costs.

As far as the rest. Message boards live and die by having quality contributions added to them to further the discussion. Just food for thought.

[mugofbeer]

Why not just tax milage when you pay for your license tag and eliminate the gas tax? That's what several states have already been proposing.

[venture]

Raising the gas tax is impractical but retrofitting the nations 45,000+ miles of interstate to account for millions of trips per day and creating a system to bill millions of customers isn't? Okay, I'm from misouri on this one, show me. Electric cars aren't even a blip on the usage radar and won't be for decades (if even then) and higher average MPH could simply be factored into the gas tax rate. Also, lets be real here. There is no way the "toll the entire freeway system" is going to happen anytime soon.

Creating a system? The systems are already there. Just turn all the interstates over to the states' turnpike commissions and let them go to town. Majority of all the systems already talk to each other anyway. PikePass is one of the exceptions where it doesn't talk with the E-ZPass system or K-Tag. So that would be a situation where the Oklahoma PikePass system would need to be either scrapped or updated to work with the other states. The system could also be setup to where you get your toll road device or sticker when you get plates for the car or the next time you renew...making it mandatory to get. The billing then would be setup to a credit card or bank account. If the person doesn't have one, then they need to pre-pay $50 at the time of receiving it and then recharge another $50 when only $10 is left on it.

Also, depending on the state, many already have the abilities in place to handle construction, snow removal, etc. It would also make the state's responsible for their own highways and remove any federal responsibilities.

[Plutonic Panda]

Stupid idea and not happening anytime soon. It is so funny how some say suburbia is disappearing, and car sales are decreasing, and blah blah blah. It is not happening. Car sales are highest in 4 years and there is major growth happening in Edmond, Norman, Moore ect.

We need to stop the wasteful spending like funding 500,000 dollars to put shrimp on treadmills and wasting it on unnecessary wars like Syria. The interstates have already been paid for by tax dollars and they don't need to be tolled.

[venture]

Stupid idea and not happening anytime soon. It is so funny how some say suburbia is disappearing, and car sales are decreasing, and blah blah blah. It is not happening. Car sales are highest in 4 years and there is major growth happening in Edmond, Norman, Moore ect.

We need to stop the wasteful spending like funding 500,000 dollars to put shrimp on treadmills and wasting it on unnecessary wars like Syria. The interstates have already been paid for by tax dollars and they don't need to be tolled.

Umm what? Why is it stupid? The interstate system is not something that you can just pay once for and call it good. They are requiring recurring maintenance, which hasn't been happening in many areas, and has caused much of it to deteriorate. Do we forget Minneapolis so easily? How about the old Crosstown? The system is deficient in many areas.

Are auto sales up? Of course. Source: US Auto Sales (Monthly) and Calculated Risk: U.S. Light Vehicle Sales increased to 15.9 million annual rate in June, Highest since November 2007

However they probably keep going much higher. Historically they will begin to plateau around 17 million a month, which is about a million more than where we are now.

Suburban Sprawl has bean happening for years...no one say anything about suburbia disappearing - just being repurposed in some areas. Please be sure you are getting the statements correct. I'm not really sure what shrimp on treadmills has to do with this. Comments like that start to lead down the path of canned talking points from some wacko extremist fringe trying to find the worst examples of frivolous spending.

Again...the interstates aren't something you can just pay for once and call it good...unless you goal is for a gravel road at some point. States don't have the money to fix roads fast enough right now. Highway 9 is one of the deadliest roads in the state, but due to funding issues it will take 7 years for them to 4-lane the highway and improve safety standards. I-35 has taken how long now to to finally upgrade through Norman. The I-35/240 interchange, one of the worst in the system, is pushed off until at least 2017 (I believe) due to no money. All opinions are appreciated, just please make sure you are actually educated on the facts behind your claims.

[bluedogok]

Compared to a car - yes trucks do more damage, but compared to the amount of destruction done by mother nature both vehicles pale in comparison. Just look at crumbing sidewalks as an example. The heaviest thing on them is a person.

Sidewalks aren't built to the same standards as roads.

I was a contractor, I worked for half the pay until 7 pm, as they filed out early. But what I'm referring to was in DC at the time. It's hard to miss as the file right by you.

Government waste ? You ever heard about the $500 hammer....?

They have to have some way to pay for those NSA facilities.....

So because other countries with a more balanced transportation system with more options for consumers have higher pump prices, it does not affect them as much?

Most of those countries are smaller in area than Texas and have much a higher population density, makes it easier to afford mass transit when the people are "massed together" in the same place.

The weight of the vehicle should be a factor also. The heavier it is the more it tears up the road. Your road pass would be issued with that info and should be affixed to your windshield like the pike pass is.

A pickup has minimal more effect on a (properly built) road than a small car, the large trucks and improperly built roads are what leads to road damage. Too many contractors are building crap for top dollar and the state/counties/cities are allowing it to happen.

They have closed all the tollbooths in the Austin are and up here in Denver, it is all electronic and it happened much quicker than they expected because of advancements in technology and specifically license plate recognition. Some of the big toll plazas in Austin were in use less than a year and they are looking at changing the abandoned plazas on E-470 into gas stations. Makes it cheaper when when don't need the right-of-way to build them, saving on land, construction and employee costs.

When I was in Japan the highway we took from Tokyo to Yokohama was a toll road, the local architect said all highways were toll roads there. Back in 1996 they still had booths, you could buy a book of tickets and hand them to the person in the booth. They now have similar systems to the US toll technology.

[Plutonic Panda]

Umm what? Why is it stupid? The interstate system is not something that you can just pay once for and call it good. They are requiring recurring maintenance, which hasn't been happening in many areas, and has caused much of it to deteriorate. Do we forget Minneapolis so easily? How about the old Crosstown? The system is deficient in many areas.

Are auto sales up? Of course. Source: US Auto Sales (Monthly) and Calculated Risk: U.S. Light Vehicle Sales increased to 15.9 million annual rate in June, Highest since November 2007

However they probably keep going much higher. Historically they will begin to plateau around 17 million a month, which is about a million more than where we are now.

Suburban Sprawl has bean happening for years...no one say anything about suburbia disappearing - just being repurposed in some areas. Please be sure you are getting the statements correct. I'm not really sure what shrimp on treadmills has to do with this. Comments like that start to lead down the path of canned talking points from some wacko extremist fringe trying to find the worst examples of frivolous spending.

Again...the interstates aren't something you can just pay for once and call it good...unless you goal is for a gravel road at some point. States don't have the money to fix roads fast enough right now. Highway 9 is one of the deadliest roads in the state, but due to funding issues it will take 7 years for them to 4-lane the highway and improve safety standards. I-35 has taken how long now to to finally upgrade through Norman. The I-35/240 interchange, one of the worst in the system, is pushed off until at least 2017 (I believe) due to no money. All opinions are appreciated, just please make sure you are actually educated on the facts behind your claims.

Like every thing, you have to maintain. I understand that. Tolling the interstates is a stupid in my book. It is unlikely to happen, so I'm not worried about it. Just put in my 2 cents

The funding issues with highway 9 is something that is allowed to happen by whoever is in charge of that, which I'm assuming ODOT. Texas is reconstructing a multi billion dollar, 24 lane highway in something like 5 years. A four lane highway could easily become a 6 lane in about a year if ODOT really had the will to do so.

[bluedogok]

Like every thing, you have to maintain. I understand that. Tolling the interstates is a stupid in my book. It is unlikely to happen, so I'm not worried about it. Just put in my 2 cents

The funding issues with highway 9 is something that is allowed to happen by whoever is in charge of that, which I'm assuming ODOT. Texas is reconstructing a multi billion dollar, 24 lane highway in something like 5 years. A four lane highway could easily become a 6 lane in about a year if ODOT really had the will to do so.

Every funding model is different and Dallas gets more money from TxDOT than most other cities do and a road like 635 would have a higher priority than TX71 because of the amount of traffic. Just like work on 35 would have a higher priority than Hwy 9. It has taken 20 years to make Texas 71 (Ben White) in Austin into a limited access highway, about 8 miles worth. I think part of 635 will be tolled HOV lanes, that funding helps in that it is advanced monies due to bonds. Typical USDOT funding is a set amount per year and they can only build to that amount because you always risk next years funding being cancelled.

[Just the facts]

JTF, why do prices > than 4 bucks/gallon tank our economy but not those of other industrialized countries?

Because every income segment of our society depends on the automobile. It doesn't matter if you work at the mall or are a CEO, you have to drive. In nearly every other country public transit is available or neighborhoods are mixed use - and usually both. When fuel prices go up the people at the bottom get affected first and it doesn't take long for that price point to affect a lot of people. Europe doesn't have near the car ownership levels we have so most of their people don't care what gasoline costs - they don't use it, and if they do use it they can just choose not to drive if prices get to high. They can keep the wheels of commerce turning; we can't.

[Plutonic Panda]

Every funding model is different and Dallas gets more money from TxDOT than most other cities do and a road like 635 would have a higher priority than TX71 because of the amount of traffic. Just like work on 35 would have a higher priority than Hwy 9. It has taken 20 years to make Texas 71 (Ben White) in Austin into a limited access highway, about 8 miles worth. I think part of 635 will be tolled HOV lanes, that funding helps in that it is advanced monies due to bonds. Typical USDOT funding is a set amount per year and they can only build to that amount because you always risk next years funding being cancelled.

Texas is also much bigger and there are a TON of construction projects going on. ODOT could tackle more projects in OK if they wanted to. Maybe they need to change the way they fund things.

[Just the facts]

Sidewalks aren't built to the same standards as roads.

I know - but they don't carry any weight and yet after few winter/summer sequences they start to deteriorate. If a single car/truck never drove on the old crosstown it would have still needed replacement.

[venture]

Like every thing, you have to maintain. I understand that. Tolling the interstates is a stupid in my book. It is unlikely to happen, so I'm not worried about it. Just put in my 2 cents

The funding issues with highway 9 is something that is allowed to happen by whoever is in charge of that, which I'm assuming ODOT. Texas is reconstructing a multi billion dollar, 24 lane highway in something like 5 years. A four lane highway could easily become a 6 lane in about a year if ODOT really had the will to do so.

So how would you fix the funding issue in order to get interstates up to standards?

[bluedogok]

Texas is also much bigger and there are a TON of construction projects going on. ODOT could tackle more projects in OK if they wanted to. Maybe they need to change the way they fund things.

TxDOT is a mess, a much bigger mess than ODOT, especially if you tried doing projects for them. A few years ago they had a $1 Billion accounting error that almost caused TxDOT to be terminated by the Sunset Commission. Big projects get a huge majority of the money and everyone else is left wanting, they don't operate any better than ODOT. It still comes down to too many projects for the amount of money allocated, something that affects all states. A large part of the problem is USDOT and them skimming money off the gas taxes paid in by the states.

[Just the facts]

The easiest first step should be an immediate tolling of all rural interstates. It isn't hard to do with existing PikePass/EasyPass/IPass systems in place over much of the country already. The urban portions would be a little tougher.

Tolling the rural interstates would be a piece of cake.

[Plutonic Panda]

So how would you fix the funding issue in order to get interstates up to standards?

The first step this country needs to take, is getting its finances in order, that does not include tolling every interstate. These "stupid extremist" examples, are true. They are spending millions on stupid **** that they shouldn't be. We spend billions just giving money to other countries, to try and nation build. Cut the crap, stop spending absurd amounts of money on pointless wars and fix corruption, then you can worry about what to do with our infrastructure.

[venture]

The first step this country needs to take, is getting its finances in order, that does not include tolling every interstate. These "stupid extremist" examples, are true. They are spending millions on stupid **** that they shouldn't be. We spend billions just giving money to other countries, to try and nation build. Cut the crap, stop spending absurd amounts of money on pointless wars and fix corruption, then you can worry about what to do with our infrastructure.

Uhhh huh. So you just want us to ignore the crumbling infrastructure, which will further hamper economic recovery, to focus on things that likely will never get fixed?

Do you even know how much is spent on foreign aid? Around $50 billion or roughly 1.3% of the federal budget. Sure we can cut all that out, but it is still a drop in the bucket. Now if we take it all and put it towards transportation that would help...but still wouldn't do anything to get our financial house in order. To not take this too far off course, I agree we need to stop being the police of the world...but we also have special interests in certain areas to keep things stable. Regardless, I'll stop there because we are going to far down the path of getting this thread banished to Politics.

[Just the facts]

To bring out interstate system up to standards will cost between $1.2 trillion and $1.5 trillion. We aren't going to get that by cutting money for coal plants in Brazil or scaling back on African dung beetle research trips.

[Mel]

I too would like to see more American Money spent on America and Americans. We should improve our living and working standards before we worry about everyone else. Transportation is key to a Nation's life. Be it air, rail or road. The system is broke. Somebody needs to fix it.

[bradh]

I don't know exact specifics, and I apologize if it was already posted, but I'm pretty sure they are working to make advancements in pavement (I know, sounds exciting right) so roads are tougher and last longer.