Poverty in Oklahoma City

[PWitty]

I know something like this has been posted somewhere in the past, because I posted it, but OKC was found to be the 43rd most segregated metro out of the 51 largest in a recent study posted on The Atlantic.

Cities Where the Poor Are the Most Segregated

[soonerguru]

I know something like this has been posted somewhere in the past, because I posted it, but OKC was found to be the 43rd most segregated metro out of the 51 largest in a recent study posted on The Atlantic.

Cities Where the Poor Are the Most Segregated

What do they base that on? OKC has more income variety than just about any city I've visited. It's one of the things some people have complained about here. Tulsa? Way segregated. Austin? Segregated. Dallas? Segregated. New York? San Fran? Just about any city in the South? Very segregated by income. OKC is not.

[BoulderSooner]

What do they base that on? OKC has more income variety than just about any city I've visited. It's one of the things some people have complained about here. Tulsa? Way segregated. Austin? Segregated. Dallas? Segregated. New York? San Fran? Just about any city in the South? Very segregated by income. OKC is not.

Which is what his link says

[LocoAko]

What do they base that on? OKC has more income variety than just about any city I've visited. It's one of the things some people have complained about here. Tulsa? Way segregated. Austin? Segregated. Dallas? Segregated. New York? San Fran? Just about any city in the South? Very segregated by income. OKC is not.

43rd most segregated = 8th most integrated out of the 51 metros studied.

[soonerguru]

Whoops! Sorry. Need more coffee.

Interesting article. Thanks for posting.

[LandRunOkie]

They set the poverty line at the national level, which is absurd. People allegedly are poorer here but that doesn't take into account the lower cost of living. I could not possibly live as well on our current income back east. Your dollar, especially your housing dollar, stretches much further, here.

Would be interested to see if you could prove that Oklahoma has a lower cost of living for the poor. The ramshackle roads here absolutely destroy vehicles. I recently had to replace two otherwise decent tires just because driving over so many potholes caused one of them to separate inside. It is a truly phantom prosperity that results from lower taxes at the expense of road maintenance. Also the lack of expedient bus service and hodgepodge development patterns necessitate vehicle ownership, lots of driving, and lots of repairs.

[PennyQuilts]

Would be interested to see if you could prove that Oklahoma has a lower cost of living for the poor. The ramshackle roads here absolutely destroy vehicles. I recently had to replace two otherwise decent tires just because driving over so many potholes caused one of them to separate inside. It is a truly phantom prosperity that results from lower taxes at the expense of road maintenance. Also the lack of expedient bus service and hodgepodge development patterns necessitate vehicle ownership, lots of driving, and lots of repairs.

Why do you think the condition of the roads in Oklahoma is any different than any other city of like size and weather? A lot of poor people don't even have cars. Regardless, do you think this is the only place with bad roads and that somehow makes this place have a higher cost of living? I can assure you, it doesn't - plenty of places have just awful roads and this winter has been tough on roads. And Oklahoma certainly isn't the only town that relies on cars to get around - MOST cities this size are in the same boat. In more expensive areas, people can't afford to even live close in - they get shoved out to suburbs or further just to find something they can afford.

But as to "proving," to start out with, the federal government pays people much less in Oklahoma than they do in NYC or DC for the same job. There are reasons for that.

I've lived back east and there is no way I could afford to live as well there as I do here on the same salary. Not even close. I doubt I could even pay my bills. I certainly couldn't afford to have bought my home - it would literally have cost 4-5 times more back east.

Have you lived in places with higher costs of living? It really DOES cost more to live there. I've got family living in tiny apartments in NYC for $3,000 a month. I know poor working people who spend two - three hours a day commuting in because they can't afford to live closer. And as to people who take the bus - do you have any idea how difficult it is to go grocery shopping? If you don't have time to make 3-4 trips to the grocery store (at about 1.5 - 2 hours each trip), you end up buying expensive groceries at the corner deli or hiring a cab.

[JenX67]

Phantom prosperity is a great term. It's right up there with the phantom economic recovery. Ugh. My husband was born and raised in the Bay Area and complains about the roads here tearing up our tires all the time. I thought he was exaggerating, but maybe not. I wonder how much our roads are impacted by the extreme weather we have here compared to other places.

Would be interested to see if you could prove that Oklahoma has a lower cost of living for the poor. The ramshackle roads here absolutely destroy vehicles. I recently had to replace two otherwise decent tires just because driving over so many potholes caused one of them to separate inside. It is a truly phantom prosperity that results from lower taxes at the expense of road maintenance. Also the lack of expedient bus service and hodgepodge development patterns necessitate vehicle ownership, lots of driving, and lots of repairs.

[JenX67]

That would be a great thread. Reminds me of this Ghandi quote.

You are sooooo right on target about this! Unfortunately, it is these people that non-believers look at as "Christians." I guess that is a subject for another thread.

[boitoirich]

Some thoughtful posts in this thread -- I am really enjoying reading this.

I do have some thoughts on the infrastructure concerns someone mentioned above. The lack of sensible development planning absolutely impacts the working poor in OKC much more than in other places. The poor will have to live where it's feasible, and then find a way to commute to work, which may be 15 miles away. This limits their options to 1) purchasing a car they cannot really afford but really need, 2) relying on others for rides to and from work, or 3) using the bus systems, which has well known issues.

Option 1 is expensive, and even if road conditions are perfect, cars still demand costly repairs -- about $3,000/year in upkeep costs for the lowest quintile owners. Replacing certain parts or even entire vehicles place significant burdens on the working poor. Option 2 is inconvenient and even more embarrassing. People require a certain amount of dignity, a powerful factor which keeps people who truly need it from seeking help. Option 3 is a non-starter in Oklahoma City. I don't think I really need to explain why.

With more compact development, it is easier to serve more people (whether they drive or use transit), more people live closer to a greater number of jobs and services, and there is a range of housing options. It also solves the racial and income segregation problem because it brings a variety of different people together.

I met a young woman who lives on the Eastside near the location Buy4Less plans to build a new store. She wants to ditch her car and commute to work, which is a half-mile south of NW Expressway on N Portland Ave. After looking at bus routes, she realized the length of time it would take her to get to work and home from work was unworkable. She decided to look at housing in the area instead. All of the options were unattractive. Even if they were acceptable, she still could not figure out how she would get groceries, see the doctor, go to the lake for exercise, socialize with friends, etc. A city such as this, 626 square miles of unapologetic sprawl and without adequate means for active transportation, turns the car from a means of freedom to a form of burden for the working poor.

[PennyQuilts]

I know something like this has been posted somewhere in the past, because I posted it, but OKC was found to be the 43rd most segregated metro out of the 51 largest in a recent study posted on The Atlantic.

Cities Where the Poor Are the Most Segregated

Not most segregated - least segregated. It is one of the reasons I love this town. It pains me that my grandkids in NYC live in the city where their schools are the most segregated in the nation. Interesting that the most liberal areas are most segregated and the conservative places are least.

As the map shows, the metros where the poor are the most segregated are mostly found along the Eastern Seaboard from New England to the Mid-Atlantic states, across the Midwest and the Great Lakes region, and in parts of Texas, Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado.

Read more: The U.S. Cities Where the Poor Are Most Segregated From Everyone Else - Richard Florida - The Atlantic Cities

Large Metros Where the Poor Are Least Segregated
Rank Metro Index Rank of All Metros
51 Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL 0.274 277
50 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA 0.299 240
49 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 0.319 191
48 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 0.322 184
47 Jacksonville, FL 0.325 179
46 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL 0.327 177
45 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 0.331 171
44 Salt Lake City, UT 0.334 163
43 Oklahoma City, OK 0.336 160
42 Riverside-San Berardino-Ontario, CA 0.338 159

Read more: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/nei...#ixzz2xItNA6wP

Large Metros Where the Poor Are Most Segregated
Rank Metro Index Rank of All Metros
1 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 0.478 2
2 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 0.462 6
3 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 0.455 9
4 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH 0.435 15
5 Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 0.433 16
6 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA 0.428 20
7 Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY 0.416 29
8 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO 0.413 32
9 Baltimore-Towson, MD 0.413 35
10 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 0.410 36

Read more: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/nei...#ixzz2xIttEbSc

I'm not really sure why it is important to try to make the case that Oklahoma City has the most segregated poor. I mean, what is the point, even if it was actually true and not just a misread? The poster was correct - the claim that we had a high level of segregated poor made no sense. If you want to see segregated poor, look to places with high costs of living - that forces the poor into blighted areas because that is all they can afford.

[PWitty]

43rd most segregated. As in there are 42 metros that are more segregated than OKC, and only 8 that are less segregated. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Soonerguru was confused at first too.

[PennyQuilts]

43rd most segregated. As in there are 42 metros that are more segregated than OKC, and only 8 that are less segregated. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Soonerguru was confused at first too.

Of the 51 cities of a million or more, 42 are more segregated than OKC and 8 are less segregated. Pretty proud of that, actually.

[soonerguru]

Not most segregated - least segregated. It is one of the reasons I love this town. It pains me that my grandkids in NYC live in the city where their schools are the most segregated in the nation. Interesting that the most liberal areas are most segregated and the conservative places are least.





I'm not really sure why it is important to try to make the case that Oklahoma City has the most segregated poor. I mean, what is the point, even if it was actually true and not just a misread? The poster was correct - the claim that we had a high level of segregated poor made no sense. If you want to see segregated poor, look to places with high costs of living - that forces the poor into blighted areas because that is all they can afford.

Penny, it was just awkwardly worded. It was correct, though. Would have been more accurate to say OKC is the 8th LEAST segregated metro by income.

[PennyQuilts]

Penny, it was just awkwardly worded. It was correct, though. Would have been more accurate to say OKC is the 8th LEAST segregated metro by income.

Very poorly written article and organization of information, for sure.

To perhaps quibble, it wasn't just "income," - it was limited to a focus on the poor. Based on this article, we know that of the largest cities, our poor are among the least segregated - we have white poor as well as minority poor. I appreciate that if you are poor in OKC, it is less likely to be just about race. Since our minority stats are on par with most of the country, particularly when you add in the large number of Native Americans, that's a nice reality.

However, this article doesn't tell us if our wealthiest are more or less segregated than other places. I suspect NYC, whose poor are among the most segregated, i.e., they have far more minority poor than white poor, might also have a LESS segregated higher income that compared to some other places. I say that because it is a city with many successful people from all over the world. In contrast, I suspect OKC has a pretty segregated higher income group - mostly white.

The take away I get from most of these studies is that if you live in a big city, you tend to have a lot more economic inequality but racial aspects vary widely.

[JenX67]

REPORT on KGOU: Grapes of Wrath is 75 today, But Its Depictions of Poverty Are Timeless Here's Doug Dawg's piece from 2007 that addresses how the Dust Bowl was felt in OKC. Click: The Dust Bowl.

[onthestrip]

Would be interested to see if you could prove that Oklahoma has a lower cost of living for the poor. The ramshackle roads here absolutely destroy vehicles. I recently had to replace two otherwise decent tires just because driving over so many potholes caused one of them to separate inside. It is a truly phantom prosperity that results from lower taxes at the expense of road maintenance. Also the lack of expedient bus service and hodgepodge development patterns necessitate vehicle ownership, lots of driving, and lots of repairs.

Not to mention our highest in the country property insurance rates, which affects owners and renters alike. We also dont enjoy very much temperate weather, such as summers in Minnesota or winters in Arizona or all year long in San Diego, which means high heating and cooling costs throughout the year.

Seems like most of these COL studies always place too much on median home prices and not enough on other important things.

[TheTravellers]

...

Seems like most of these COL studies always place too much on median home prices and not enough on other important things.

Living in a few different states over the past couple of decades, I totally agree with this. OK is always said to be a great place to live because the COL is so low. BS, it's not. Housing is lower cost than in other states, gasoline is a bit lower, but groceries cost about the same, insurance (auto, renter's) is about the same, car repairs cost the same, cars cost the same, utility costs are pretty much the same, almost everything costs about the same here in OK (OKC, specifically, actually, since that's the only place in OK I've lived, so I'm not talking about rural OK) as it does in other states.

One other thing to note is that the COL comparison websites' data can be 9 months out of date, so if anybody uses them, make sure you know when the data is from, we got screwed by that big-time when we moved to WA.

[JenX67]

Perhaps we'll have more definitive answers soon. The Gaylord College of Journalism will receive a $35,000 grant to work with the nonprofit investigative journalism organization Oklahoma Watch, students and faculty, and university and community partners on a project focused on poverty in Oklahoma City. Read more via Norman Transcript.

[JenX67]

BRIDGES OUT OF POVERTY Aims To End Generational Poverty via KSWO, Lawton. Click here to see the story.

Excerpt: "The group of more than 100 people, from several organizations, attended Thursday's "Bridges out of Poverty" training course sponsored in part by the Salvation Army of Lawton-Fort Sill. They're trying to launch a statewide program called "Getting Ahead" to help families and individuals get off of welfare by giving them a chance to succeed."

[ylouder]

I believe it. Really when you drive all over town is not uncommon to are a trailer house right down the street from a 300k house.

[PennyQuilts]

Living in a few different states over the past couple of decades, I totally agree with this. OK is always said to be a great place to live because the COL is so low. BS, it's not. Housing is lower cost than in other states, gasoline is a bit lower, but groceries cost about the same, insurance (auto, renter's) is about the same, car repairs cost the same, cars cost the same, utility costs are pretty much the same, almost everything costs about the same here in OK (OKC, specifically, actually, since that's the only place in OK I've lived, so I'm not talking about rural OK) as it does in other states.

One other thing to note is that the COL comparison websites' data can be 9 months out of date, so if anybody uses them, make sure you know when the data is from, we got screwed by that big-time when we moved to WA.

Not all col are lower but with lower housing costs, you have much better likelihood that the rich and poor will be rubbing elbows at schools, grocery stores, local churches, etc. in terms of chances for upward mobility because rich and poor kids have a much better chance to mingle, this is huge. I personally love a diverse economy with low housing costs because it doesn't have such a rigid economic caste system.

[JenX67]

A report on poverty in Oklahoma from OPI via KTUL. Click here to read hear the story.

Also, there's this from OPI: Paying a poverty tax: The high cost of being poor in Oklahoma

Yesterday, my friend M. posted the following on his FB page:

"Looking at some of the statistics in the 2013 school report card that _______ (his kid) brought home today:

The percentage of hispanic students in OKCPS (47%) is equivalent to the combined percentages of white and black students. Not surprising at all, if you spend time in any neighborhoods south of NW 23rd Street.

86% of OKCPS students are eligible for free/reduced lunch.

45% of OKCPS families are single parent, and 26% live at or below poverty line.

The OKCPS district has an unemployment rate of 9%, which is interesting since our civic leaders proudly touted an unemployment rate less than 5% for Oklahoma City last fall."

Does anyone have a source on that last stat of 9 percent?

[JenX67]

The New York Times has won the the Best Data Story at the 2014 Data Journalism Awards for this 2013 infogram: “In Climbing Income Ladder, Location Matters.” According to this data, if a child in Oklahoma City is raised by parents in the 10th percentile for income they will end up on average in the 31st percentile.

[Dubya61]

The New York Times has won the the Best Data Story at the 2014 Data Journalism Awards for this 2013 infogram: “In Climbing Income Ladder, Location Matters.” According to this data, if a child in Oklahoma City is raised by parents in the 10th percentile for income they will end up on average in the 31st percentile.

Please enlighten me on that datum: Does that mean that the child will end up on average in a higher income bracket? or a lower income bracket?