Missile or Jet Off California Coast

[BBatesokc]

Waiting for FOX News to break the story?

Nope, because only the loons are hanging on to this conspiracy theory.

While I guess some people can argue a foreign country launched a missile off our coast and the President lied and covered it up for a whole host of reasons. But you can't argue that if that actually happened what you couldn't cover up is the response our military would have had if they really thought a foreign military was off our coast firing a missile - regardless what they told the public. They could easily scramble jets and say they were just being 'cautious, but it turned out to be a plane.'

If a drunk gets unruly on a commercial jetliner military jets are scrambled to escort it to a landing. Are you actually going to believe there wouldn't at least be a single report of us scrambling jets in response to this missile contrail you are so willing to believe?

Furthermore, all WND is offering is more speculation and zero evidence in the form of something measurable. There are plenty of independent analysis to be found on credible websites where they use science and math and not "golly gee I've seen airplanes before and that didn't look like no darn airplane to me" as proof.

Regardless, the best evidence is our government's lack of response regardless of any public statements.

[BBatesokc]

Combine the total lack of response by our government with this very detailed analysis. http://contrailscience.com/los-angel...d-in-pictures/

[jmarkross]

Nope, because only the loons are hanging on to this conspiracy theory.

While I guess some people can argue a foreign country launched a missile off our coast and the President lied and covered it up for a whole host of reasons. But you can't argue that if that actually happened what you couldn't cover up is the response our military would have had if they really thought a foreign military was off our coast firing a missile - regardless what they told the public. They could easily scramble jets and say they were just being 'cautious, but it turned out to be a plane.'

If a drunk gets unruly on a commercial jetliner military jets are scrambled to escort it to a landing. Are you actually going to believe there wouldn't at least be a single report of us scrambling jets in response to this missile contrail you are so willing to believe?

Furthermore, all WND is offering is more speculation and zero evidence in the form of something measurable. There are plenty of independent analysis to be found on credible websites where they use science and math and not "golly gee I've seen airplanes before and that didn't look like no darn airplane to me" as proof.

Regardless, the best evidence is our government's lack of response regardless of any public statements.

Hmmm--I think that is not very perceptive of things as they are...

[BBatesokc]

Hmmm--I think that is not very perceptive of things as they are...

How's that exactly? I'd argue my perspective is spot on with reality.

[jmarkross]

How's that exactly? I'd argue my perspective is spot on with reality.

Scrambling jets would be useless if a missile were launched--I mean--what would they do? I just think--in my opinion only--things that are complicated get buried for a while--or--forever. That it was a missile launched off the coast seems pretty much to be what they who should know seem to think. The dilemma seems to be the exact launch point...which seems to be off the coast...

[BBatesokc]

You actually want people to believe that if the US government thought there was a foreign military vessel not only capable of firing a missile but actually firing a missile just off our coast we'd just sit back and ignore it - because, as you put it, "what could they do?"

I guess the president just sat back and hoped the military war submarine would just go away and was all by itself and not even send jets or ships to look things over?

That it was a missile launched off the coast seems pretty much to be what they who should know seem to think.

As long as you choose to ignore the comments and science and evidence of those you know better.

[jmarkross]

It is not at all inconceivable diplomatic contact might have been made apprising the USA of what it was and essentially saying--what are you going to do about it? It is, after all, how these things are often done...America has never been weaker than it is today...

[BBatesokc]

It is not at all inconceivable diplomatic contact might have been made apprising the USA of what it was and essentially saying--what are you going to do about it? It is, after all, how these things are often done...America has never been weaker than it is today...

Oh yeah, I forget, you ARE "in the know" right? You do realize the show 24 is for entertainment right?

[jmarkross]

Oh yeah, I forget, you ARE "in the know" right? You do realize the show 24 is for entertainment right?

It is just an opinion...you may take it for what it is worth to you...

[MadMonk]

Combine the total lack of response by our government with this very detailed analysis. http://contrailscience.com/los-angel...d-in-pictures/

Just now took a look at this site. It's explains it very well.

[sacolton]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/general-...%E2%80%9D.html

However, Retired Airforce Lt. General Tom Mcinerney, with no reservations stated that this object was clearly a missile saying:
“Well first of all, I do not agree with the assertion Sean. And your question is, we should get a definitive answer. You’re absolutely correct. Look, this is not an airplane because of the plume, and the way you see that plume. Airplanes do not con at sea level or 5000 ft like that. I spent 35 yrs flying fighters, and I never saw an airplane con like that. That is a missile – it’s launched from a submarine, and you can see it go through a correction course, and then it gives a very smooth trajectory meaning that the guidance system has now kicked in, it’s going at about a 45 degrees away from you that’s why you’re not seeing a lot of vertical velocity.”
When Sean interrupted Lt. Mcinerney, asking ” are you 100% certain? Mcinerney answered with 100% conviction:
“Sean… I’ve watched that film 10 times, I’ve watched 15 other Trident films, SM 3.. Standard missile threes, and T Lam launches…. I am absolutely certain that that is not an aircraft.”

[Roadhawg]

It is not at all inconceivable diplomatic contact might have been made apprising the USA of what it was and essentially saying--what are you going to do about it? It is, after all, how these things are often done...America has never been weaker than it is today...

Just how is America weaker today?

[jmarkross]

Just how is America weaker today?

Lack of resolve and non-existent leadership from the "Commander" in chief...for starters...I see that North Korea understands this quite clearly...they sank a ship in March, now today's events...perception is everything...

[Kerry]

The President was woken at 4AM this morning because North Korea was firing at South Korea where we have 36,000 troops. Have you seen a response from the White House or the US military? Just because the US government doesn't respond doesn't mean it didn't happen. I thought we learned this lesson after the USS Cole, Mogadishu, The US embassies in Africa, Kobar Towers, etc. We didn't respond to them, but they did happen.

I am sure it was North Korea that did this. They are planning an attack on South Korea and fired a warning shot at the US that lets us know they can reach the US mainland if they want to. However, if you feel more comfortable closing your eyes and hoping that by ignoring it that it will just go away, then more power to you.

I wonder what Obama did when they woke him up this morning. I wonder if he even cares.

...here is my answer...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101123/...us_north_korea

Though the White House had strong words for North Korea, the administration was tempering Obama's direct involvement by planning a written statement from the president instead of having him speak publicly

Nothing will shut Obama up like a missile being fired off the coast.

I'll let you guess which character is Obama.

[BBatesokc]

You're nuts if you think a missile being fired off the LA coast is even closely comparable to North Korea firing at South Korea. You're also delusional if you think we wouldn't have scrabbled aircraft and war ships if we even suspected an armed foreign military vessel was just off our coast.

[Jersey Boss]

Lack of resolve and non-existent leadership from the "Commander" in chief...for starters...I see that North Korea understands this quite clearly...they sank a ship in March, now today's events...perception is everything...

How then do you explain a US Army officer murdered by the Soviets in East Germany on Reagan's watch with no repercussions?

[Kerry]

You're nuts if you think a missile being fired off the LA coast is even closely comparable to North Korea firing at South Korea. You're also delusional if you think we wouldn't have scrabbled aircraft and war ships if we even suspected an armed foreign military vessel was just off our coast.

I would like to think that, but what makes you think they didn't know it was there. One thing I found very interesting is that the 'airplane' crowd says the aircrafy was flying east, while the 'missile' crowd says it is going northwest, and NORAD initially said "it didn't pose a threat to the mainland" while they were still saying they didn't know what it was. The only way that is possible is if it was flying away from the coast. That makes the airplane story impossible.

[Edmond_Outsider]

It is often useful to think of Occam when trying to understand things.

1. A crisis is great for politics. Obama could guarrantee his reelection if there was a real foreign power launching missles off LA.
2. Contrails make for great optical illusions. Try looking at them sometimes.
3. A few years ago, there were three "mysterious" "hovering" lights west of Phoenix. Some folks said "Aliens." Others said "illuminating parachute flares from Yuma prooving grounds." Which do you suppose is the simpliest explanation and which turned out true?

[kevinpate]

Whoa, they lit up alien paratroopers over Yuma with flares?
Kinda Kewl.

[Kerry]

It is often useful to think of Occam when trying to understand things.

1. A crisis is great for politics. Obama could guarrantee his reelection if there was a real foreign power launching missles off LA.
2. Contrails make for great optical illusions. Try looking at them sometimes.
3. A few years ago, there were three "mysterious" "hovering" lights west of Phoenix. Some folks said "Aliens." Others said "illuminating parachute flares from Yuma prooving grounds." Which do you suppose is the simpliest explanation and which turned out true?

1. Not if Obama's (and Hillary's) bungling of diplomacy are to blame. From the looks of Wikileaks, bungling is a kind word.
2. Contrail do make for great illusions. Take the missile contrail that some people still think is airplane for instance. Do you seriously have any doubt that this is anything other than North Korea?
3. Really? You want to relate a missile sighting with alien sightings. BTW, who was responsible for the Phoenix flares? You guessed it, the military. For your analogy to be correct USAir would have had to drop the flares.

[Edmond_Outsider]

Oh, of course it's Obama's bungling and of course it was north korea. Do they even have a Navy? You seriously believe our military notified the President the North Korean Navy fired a missle off the coast of California and the president said, the PResident said, "Golly, just let them go and make up a story about it being a contrail. I'm too scared to offend them."

Geeze. You'll believe anything.

Kerry, Obama doesn't want to you to buy my beach front property in Gotebo. He's afraid you'll get a great bargain if you buy it from me. But you're to smart to fall for that. Just send me $20,000 and you'll foil his attempts to keep you down!

[jmarkross]

1. Not if Obama's (and Hillary's) bungling of diplomacy are to blame. From the looks of Wikileaks, bungling is a kind word.
2. Contrail do make for great illusions. Take the missile contrail that some people still think is airplane for instance. Do you seriously have any doubt that this is anything other than North Korea?
3. Really? You want to relate a missile sighting with alien sightings. BTW, who was responsible for the Phoenix flares? You guessed it, the military. For your analogy to be correct USAir would have had to drop the flares.

I wish Jodie Foster had never made that movie with Occam's razor mentioned in it...fleets of folks who haven't a clue what it is all about now get all excited finding some oscrure place to pull the trigger on using it...it is what I mean when I say 90% of today's world--and about 96% of Americans under 40 get ALL their history and knowledge from Hollywood...a sort of "intellectual snipe hunt"...

[Edmond_Outsider]

JMR, I haven't the slightest clue what movie you are talking about. But, since you are clearly the smartest person on this forum and untainted by "hollywood," please explain why choosing the least likely explanations requiring the most rediculous and unprovable assumptions are most likely in explaining this common contrail.

Go ahead, impress us yet again with your vastly superior intellect.

[Kerry]

EO - between a missile and airplane, the airplane is the least likely. It doesn't even look like an airplane. A commercial aircraft has at least 2 engines and this object clearly leaves only one vapor trail at the point of origin. Go outside an watch any aircraft flying by. Even if the contrail morphs into one, you can still see two just behind the aircraft at the point of origin.

BTW - yes North Korea does have a navy. The fact that you don’t know that indicates you might not be playing with full knowledge about North Korea. A North Korean submarine just sunk a South Korean ship in March. Here is a story about how Hillary didn't want to accuse Kim Jong Il so as not to 'play into his hands'. I even got the story from the NYT so you will believe it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/wo...a/23korea.html

So far, at least in public, both American and South Korean leaders have been careful never to link Mr. Kim to the sinking of the Cheonan in March, which killed 46 sailors. Officials said that was in part because of the absence of hard evidence — difficult to come by in the rigidly controlled North — but also largely because both countries were trying to avoid playing into Mr. Kim’s hands by casting one of the worst attacks since the 1953 armistice as another piece of lore about the Kim family taking on South Korea and the West.

Do you think it is possible that Hillary/Obama might not publicly accuse Kim this time so as to 'not play into his hands'? That is the problem with lying - once you start you can't stop.

[Edmond_Outsider]

EO - between a missile and airplane, the airplane is the least likely. It doesn't even look like an airplane. A commercial aircraft has at least 2 engines and this object clearly leaves only one vapor trail at the point of origin. Go outside an watch any aircraft flying by. Even if the contrail morphs into one, you can still see two just behind the aircraft at the point of origin.

BTW - yes North Korea does have a navy. The fact that you don’t know that indicates you might not be playing with full knowledge about North Korea. A North Korean submarine just sunk a South Korean ship in March. Here is a story about how Hillary didn't want to accuse Kim Jong Il so as not to 'play into his hands'. I even got the story from the NYT so you will believe it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/wo...a/23korea.html

Do you think it is possible that Hillary/Obama might not publicly accuse Kim this time so as to 'not play into his hands'? That is the problem with lying - once you start you can't stop.

Good lord. This is crazy even by your standards.

As much as you'd like to give Hillary magic powers and supernatural abilities, she's just not that big or scary. She doesn't have the liberal superpowers you are wetting your pants about nor could she single handedly bury information like you suggest. If she could, she'd know you are on to her and kill you with her super liberal mind bullets.

As appealing as that idea might be, she hasn't and she can't.

Tell me this, Kerry:
What is the nature of the North Korean Navy? Is it green water or blue water? Is it visible or invisible?

When did they get the ablility to sail undetected to the california coastline?

When did they get the ability ot cruise outside thier own coastline?

You're trying hard to make an ordinary event into wild eyed sci-fi. Keep going and let me know when you get to the nuclear unicorn theory.

Here's a good place for you to start. I got it from world net daily so you would believe it.