Streetcar

[Kerry]

It needs to go to the state capitol because it is a major employment center. OKC has 4 primary areas at its center - downtown, Bricktown, OU Medical, State Capitol. All four need to be connected.

[soonerguru]

It needs to go to the state capitol because it is a major employment center. OKC has 4 primary areas at its center - downtown, Bricktown, OU Medical, State Capitol. All four need to be connected.

This is a great point. I think we may scratch our noggins a bit if we make it all the way to 13th and Lincoln and stop short of the Capitol complex and state office buildings.

Of course, this is only phase one, and if we look at it that way, we can always build it out over time.

[Platemaker]

Agreed... plus the more neighborhoods the streetcar passes would naturally encourage more ridership... right??? Right??

[Urban Pioneer]

Regarding the "hub", keep in mind that we want the streetcar to be the nexus for the future Regional Transit System- commuter rail. So, more than likely that might be somewhere between the new boulevard/convention center and the Bricktown/SanteFe Station.

It might very well be that SanteFe is a incredible asset that could be reconstituted if the Brewers didn't own it. The hub study will re-evaluate that facility.

It would not be that difficult to justify direct linkage to the existing bus station on one of the lines.

[BDP]

BDP - I fear your second point is valid. If they looked at it like the St. Charles line in New Orleans lined by mansions maybe they'd find it charming. Classen and Broadway would definitely work... and maybe Robinson between 13th and 23rd. Also... there doesn't really need to be 'stations' in the HP neighborhoods... one at 13th and no others until 20th.
Walker would be a great option for future extensions to the Paseo.

I would love walker to have a street car. It would have so many great things on it, but, yeah, given the construction/noise factor, I think you're going to get some resistance in HH and Mesta. And HH and Mesta are very proud of their landscape and median work on Shartel, rightfully so. The biggest loss would be to lose a Paseo stop, but, with better sidewalks, maybe a Classen or Western stop on 30th could serve it?? Don't know. One on Western would probably be better received than on Walker and that's not too far from the Paseo and it has a lot of commerce on it as well. But, i guess we'll cross those tracks when we get to it.

(btw, how cool is it that we can have this discussion within the context of something that is actually going to happen)

[soonerguru]

(btw, how cool is it that we can have this discussion within the context of something that is actually going to happen)

It is actually somewhat surreal. I've dreamed for more than a decade that OKC would someday even consider things like this. The fact that we've moved from consideration to action, really in just a few short years, is stunning.

Let no one say we aren't ambitious. It's really quite amazing the confluence of progressive change, vision, and leadership in OKC. It's a different place than it was a decade ago.

[okclee]

(btw, how cool is it that we can have this discussion within the context of something that is actually going to happen)

It is amazing to have this type of discussion!

[Trailrunner]

Regarding the "hub", keep in mind that we want the streetcar to be the nexus for the future Regional Transit System- commuter rail. So, more than likely that might be somewhere between the new boulevard/convention center and the Bricktown/SanteFe Station.

Here's something really cool to think about.

As Urban points out, the rail hub is almost certainly going to be located on the north-south Santa Fe line. Obviously, the terminal area of the hub for commuter rail, Amtrak, High-Speed rail will be located above-grade on the elevated rail area. But what about the streetcar and other possible future light rail?

The unusual nature of having an elevated commuter rail terminal actually would allow for the development of an at-grade light rail (streetcar) terminal under the commuter rail terminal. Streetcars would move through the hub by connecting inside an indoor terminal area. Direct connection between the commuter rail terminal above and light rail terminal below would be provided by escalators and elevators (for ADA complaince) leading up and down from the passenger platforms.

A bi-level terminal like this would be functionally very efficient as a rail transit hub and would open up all kinds of possibilities with regard to transit passenger services. If done right, we could end up with one of the best and most unique rail transit hubs in the region.

[warreng88]

Here's something really cool to think about.

As Urban points out, the rail hub is almost certainly going to be located on the north-south Santa Fe line. Obviously, the terminal area of the hub for commuter rail, Amtrak, High-Speed rail will be located above-grade on the elevated rail area. But what about the streetcar and other possible future light rail?

The unusual nature of having an elevated commuter rail terminal actually would allow for the development of an at-grade light rail (streetcar) terminal under the commuter rail terminal. Streetcars would move through the hub by connecting inside an indoor terminal area. Direct connection between the commuter rail terminal above and light rail terminal below would be provided by escalators and elevators (for ADA complaince) leading up and down from the passenger platforms.

A bi-level terminal like this would be functionally very efficient as a rail transit hub and would open up all kinds of possibilities with regard to transit passenger services. If done right, we could end up with one of the best and most unique rail transit hubs in the region.

I went to the Thunder game Wednesday night, parked under the Cox Convention Center and I got a chance to look at the Santa Fe station. I could see them creating dedicated turn lanes coming north on EK Gaylord to Reno and south from Main to Sheridan so they would not have to completely change the layout of the streets north and south EK Gaylord from Sheridan to Reno. They could then take out the median in that area, expand the station and also take over the parking lot north of the station. Or use the lanes closest to the station for the streetcar.

[Urban Pioneer]

I went to the Thunder game Wednesday night, parked under the Cox Convention Center and I got a chance to look at the Santa Fe station. I could see them creating dedicated turn lanes coming north on EK Gaylord to Reno and south from Main to Sheridan so they would not have to completely change the layout of the streets north and south EK Gaylord from Sheridan to Reno. They could then take out the median in that area, expand the station and also take over the parking lot north of the station. Or use the lanes closest to the station for the streetcar.

We are definitely in a street narrowing mentality post the Jeff Speck report. EK Gaylord is definitely on the hit list.

I have seem some streetcar lines in the Czech Republic where they took out a lane of street and planted lush grass with the rails only visible out of the lawn. Pretty cool streetscaping.

[betts]

We are definitely in a street narrowing mentality post the Jeff Speck report. EK Gaylord is definitely on the hit list.

I have seem some streetcar lines in the Czech Republic where they took out a lane of street and planted lush grass with the rails only visible out of the lawn. Pretty cool streetscaping.

I don't know if I would call it lush, but the St. Charles streetcar in New Orleans runs through the grass in the middle of the boulevard. That's what gave me the idea of running our streetcar along the new boulevard, if it fit in with route plans.

[onthestrip]

I havent looked at a map and scaled anything but going up Classen or Western to 23rd st seems it would be too far, for now. Im not sure even getting to the capitol would be feasible when we only have 6 miles to work with and it being a spoke and hub system.

[brianinok]

Why doesn't the city try to get the state to extend the streetcar up to the Capitol? Just tell them the city can't afford to go that far, and if they want it, to chip in $15-20 million for a mile from OUHSC to the Capitol.

[kevinpate]

Why doesn't the city try to get the state to extend the streetcar up to the Capitol? Just tell them the city can't afford to go that far, and if they want it, to chip in $15-20 million for a mile from OUHSC to the Capitol.

Not likely to happen. From a state perspective, it makes no greater sense to have the state pay for an in city line to the capitol than it would for the state to cover the cost to incorporate the line to OU Health Sciences Complex.

Would it be a good idea to reach to the capitol complex? Sure. You have a large potential ridership that could hop the line, enjoy lunch at BT or the new park, or skip the food and maybe get a whitewater run in. The number of white socks and cross trainers plopped on beneath work clothes there would surprise many, and lots of those folks would love to have somewhere to power walk other than the existing tunnels and parking lots.

[Kerry]

Brianinok - it would be nice if the state kicked in some money to ensure the tracks made it all the way to the capitol. Good idea. It would be a good idea for the capitol complex to be linked to the states only rail transit system. Does anyone kow if there are any state capitol complexes that have a direct rail transit stop?

[betts]

Yes, I was thinking that a line to the capitol would be very good for our downtown restaurants. It would also make living downtown or on the streetcar line more attractive for some of them. I don't know if that would be cost effective for the city, but it would certainly create good press.

[okclee]

Union Station is on SW 7th Street, this is the southermost point and if we were to end the Nortwest point at 13th and Classen, also the Northeast point at 23rd and Lincoln.

Not a bad route at least for discussion purposes. And it gives us our 6 miles of streetcar.

[soonerguru]

This is by far the most significant item in this thread. Our timing is unbelievable.

How much more rail could we get for an additional $25 million?

Streetcar projects eligible for new USDOT grants

Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) announced $280 million is available in federal grants for urban circulator projects, such as streetcar and bus systems.

The money represents the first batch of funding provided by the Obama Administration through the Livability Initiative, a joint venture comprising USDOT, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will provide a maximum of $25 million per streetcar or other urban circulator project using discretionary funds from the New Starts/Small Starts program. The administration will place priority on projects that “connect destinations and foster the redevelopment of communities into walkable, mixed-use, high-density environments,” according to a prepared statement.

The FTA expects to announce grant recipients in early 2010.

[shane453]

How much more rail could we get for an additional $25 million?

A mile, maybe two?

But any little bit of help we can get from fed/state grants will mean more money in the fund for the transit center.

[Midtowner]

The stops on that map omit OCU Law.

I can't imagine that not being a stop.

[jbrown84]

That graphic was made long before OCU announced their plans.

[Urban Pioneer]

That graphic was made long before OCU announced their plans.

I would sincerely hope that developers (even OCU/Jones Family) would consider using TIF for helping extend the streetcar into proposed area/developments.

In the OCU case, I am sure that sort of project would also have an increased attractiveness to Federal supplemental.

Just keep that in mind developers! We have a alot of ground to cover with what we have approved. Help us out!

[mugofbeer]

I was watching the video of McCain and Coburn list out examples of some of the crazy projects federal stimulus money is funding. I wonder how much of the MAPS projects we could get stimulus money to fund and build?

[jbrown84]

I was watching the video of McCain and Coburn list out examples of some of the crazy projects federal stimulus money is funding. I wonder how much of the MAPS projects we could get stimulus money to fund and build?

All eight of them make more sense than these research studies at OU and OSU.

[Kerry]

I don't really care for the loop thru the Health Science Center. It already passes the complex along Lincoln and it is a pretty long detour just to join Lincoln again only one block from where it departed. Maybe they should think about their own people mover system at the complex that connects to a street car station along Lincoln.