Holiday Inn Norman loses its flag, now "Hotel Norman"

[Jersey Boss]

Appreciate that. I do not know exactly the full extent of what they can do from a legal perspective to be totally honest, but I think it is something that they should be focusing more of their efforts on publically in order to pressure the owner to resolve as soon as possible.

Take their Mask Mandate for example. They don't have the authority to actually enforce it, but they have spent a lot of time and effort through social media and other outlets to publicize it and to encourage compliance. I may be mistaken, but I have not seen or heard any public remarks from Mayor Clark or anyone on the Council about this issue. If they have, it certainly hasn't made headlines.

The bolded part of your post is false.

[Midtowner]

The bolded part of your post is false.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

[Video Expert]

The bolded part of your post is false.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

Sorry guys, but you've entered my wheelhouse now. The bolded part is NOT False at all.

If you actually read the Majority Opinion, the 1905 SCOTUS decision you reference (Jacobson v. Massachusetts) was a 10th Amendment (States Rights) and a 14th Amendment (Due Process) case based on enforcing an existing Massachusetts State Statute mandating vaccinations (due to Smallpox at that time) and a particular local government (City of Cambridge) attempting to enforce that law within its boundaries. What it was not based on, was a temporary or indefinite Ordinance or Proclamation passed solely by a Local/Municipal Government or Council without the "Supreme Authority" and/or "Lawful Backing" of the State in which the Municipality is located. The key wording in the decision was this..."States have the authority to enact reasonable legislative regulations to protect public health and safety which the Massachusetts statute sought to achieve."

The State of Oklahoma never passed a compulsatory Mask Mandate Law of any kind at any time during the COVID19 Pandemic that the City of Norman was trying to enforce within its boundaries. The City of Norman is not a State...it lies inside the State of Oklahoma. As a result and absent an Oklahoma State Law as the precursor, Jacobson v. Massachusetts isn't applicable in this case.

[jedicurt]

Sorry guys, but you've entered my wheelhouse now. The bolded part is NOT False at all.

If you actually read the Majority Opinion, the 1905 SCOTUS decision you reference (Jacobson v. Massachusetts) was a 10th Amendment (States Rights) and a 14th Amendment (Due Process) case based on enforcing an existing Massachusetts State Statute mandating vaccinations (due to Smallpox at that time) and a particular local government (City of Cambridge) attempting to enforce that law within its boundaries. What it was not based on, was a temporary or indefinite Ordinance or Proclamation passed solely by a Local/Municipal Government or Council without the "Supreme Authority" and/or "Lawful Backing" of the State in which the Municipality is located. The key wording in the decision was this..."States have the authority to enact reasonable legislative regulations to protect public health and safety which the Massachusetts statute sought to achieve."

The State of Oklahoma never passed a compulsatory Mask Mandate Law of any kind at any time during the COVID19 Pandemic that the City of Norman was trying to enforce within its boundaries. The City of Norman is not a State...it lies inside the State of Oklahoma. As a result and absent an Oklahoma State Law as the precursor, Jacobson v. Massachusetts isn't applicable in this case.

but they didn't need to... even in the case of Jacobson V Massachusetts... they state of Massachusetts did not pass law that required vaccinations... it passed a law that stated
Revised Laws of the Commonwealth, c. 75, § 137

the board of health of a city or town if, in its opinion, it is necessary for the public health or safety shall require and enforce the vaccination and revaccination of all the inhabitants thereof and shall provide them with the means of free vaccination. Whoever, being over twenty-one years of age and not under guardianship, refuses or neglects to comply with such requirement shall forfeit five dollars

and then it was the City of Cambridge that passed an ordnance requiring said vaccinations based upon it's opinion. that was the ruling of the court. if a State in it's 10th amendment reserved powers, mandated, or gave the ability to mandate.

now lets look at Mask Mandates.

in March 2020, the Oklahoma Legislature granted Gov. Kevin Stitt emergency powers to set Covid policy for the State. then, with this power granted him (and affirmed as a power that they had to be able to give him via Jacobson V Massachusetts, like you agreed with above), he then established a policy that while no State wide mandate would be issued, individual Cities could enact such mandates if, in those cities opinions, they deemed it necessary. So except for the part of giving a Governor Emergency powers to set the policy. The Supreme Court affirmed that the State has the ability to set that policy legislatively, in this case the legislature passed off through an also upheld legal precedent to our Governor, who then established a policy that allowed cities to enact these mandates. And since that policy was in place, much like the statue was in place in Massachusetts, that allowed for a city to enact it, per Jacobson v Massachusetts Majority Opinion, the City does have a right to then follow said policy and enact it at a municipal level.

So yes, Jacobson V. Massachusetts in this case does show the Supreme Court stating that Cities in Oklahoma could enact and Enforce Mask Mandates.

[mattjank]

Work looks like it has been ongoing recently. They have scaffolding up around the southern side of the building. Interior lights have been on for a while also.

[dford2]

I don't understand why the City of Norman continues to let this eyesore set with no or minimal work. I drive by this hotel 5--6 times a week and almost never see anyone there working.

[BoulderSooner]

I don't understand why the City of Norman continues to let this eyesore set with no or minimal work. I drive by this hotel 5--6 times a week and almost never see anyone there working.

what would you like them to do?

[mugofbeer]

what would you like them to do?

Reopen or repurpose it? Secure it? Close it up so tarps and wires aren't flapping in the wind? Take it down completely? The longer it sits there the more of a toll nature will take on getting it back in operation.

Once OU joins the SEC, far more fans will travel to OK to watch games so, at least on football weekends, any decent Norman hotel will sell out.

[chssooner]

Reopen or repurpose it? Secure it? Close it up so tarps and wires aren't flapping in the wind? Take it down completely? The longer it sits there the more of a toll nature will take on getting it back in operation.

Once OU joins the SEC, far more fans will travel to OK to watch games so, at least on football weekends, any decent Norman hotel will sell out.

They sell out games now. They aren't adding more seats, so I doubt that many people will be coming. They don't need to make this a Baymont Inn. They need to make this a top-notch flag. So until that happens, I think it is ok.

[GoGators]

They have been getting bid estimates on this place for several months now compiling a budget for an insurance claim. Likely wont see any movement on this until that is all finalized. Could be a long process.

[mugofbeer]

They sell out games now. They aren't adding more seats, so I doubt that many people will be coming. They don't need to make this a Baymont Inn. They need to make this a top-notch flag. So until that happens, I think it is ok.

I guess you don't remember Nebraska and how many they traditionally brought to games. Look at any SEC game among the majors. They bring hundreds and sometimes thousands to the opposing teams field.

[Urbanized]

Yeah, I’d expect SEC schools will average 5-10K (or more) fans per game. They travel incredibly well as a conference. IIRC the opposing school is allotted something like 3K (maybe more) - which will nearly always sell out to SEC schools - and the rest will certainly be able to find tickets via StubHub, Ticketmaster etc.

[Dob Hooligan]

I wonder how much we are really talking about? With Texas moving with us, we are still gonna lose 1/2 conference home game per year. And the SEC isn't going to go to more than 9 conference games, are they? Add in Missouri, Texas A&M and Arkansas as annual games, plus Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Kentucky and Mississippi State as occasionals. How many "big bump" games are we looking at?

[BoulderSooner]

I wonder how much we are really talking about? With Texas moving with us, we are still gonna lose 1/2 conference home game per year. And the SEC isn't going to go to more than 9 conference games, are they? Add in Missouri, Texas A&M and Arkansas as annual games, plus Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Kentucky and Mississippi State as occasionals. How many "big bump" games are we looking at?

all of the schools you listed (with the exception of Vandy) will sell out all of their visitor allotment .. each and every year .. no one in the big 12 is guaranteed to do that each year .. (including osu)

[dford2]

what would you like them to do?

Tear it down and sod/landscape the disturbed land. Would rather see grass and trees then this eyesore!

[BoulderSooner]

Tear it down and sod/landscape the disturbed land. Would rather see grass and trees then this eyesore!

the city doesn't own the building they can't "tear it down"

[Plutonic Panda]

the city doesn't own the building they can't "tear it down"

condemn the building and seize it.

[Jersey Boss]

Tear it down and sod/landscape the disturbed land. Would rather see grass and trees then this eyesore!

As of today there was work being performed.
The property is owned by Delta Marriot.
The city won't be seizing anything from them.

[DowntownMan]

As of today there was work being performed.
The property is owned by Delta Marriot.
The city won't be seizing anything from them.

I noticed workers Friday when driving by as well

[JDSooners]

So this eye sore is slowly getting cleaned up.

Do we know what hotel brand is going in?

When they were giving away rooms in the place it seemed like the rooms were very small, are they making the rooms bigger?

[zcamaro70]

A couple of weeks ago I saw a hotel in Wichita Falls that looked like its twin. Any update on this? It is really dead in that area with the hotel and theater closed. wichitafalls.JPG

[FighttheGoodFight]

A couple of weeks ago I saw a hotel in Wichita Falls that looked like its twin. Any update on this? It is really dead in that area with the hotel and theater closed. wichitafalls.JPG

They worked on it a little while then slowed down again. The movie theatre is getting redone. They have been working on that a while. Changing it over to a theatre with the heated reclining seats and all that.

[CaptDave]

And nothing has been done for several months again. It seems as if the owner does just enough to make it look like there is some intent to make the structure usable. I think it's just a ploy to stall for time until some developer offers a huge sum for it.

That entire area certainly could be used for something that would be wildly successful. My vote would be for a Flix Brewhouse (selfish wish since i've moved from Edmond to Norman and really like the Flix at the Half.)

[94GTStang]

And nothing has been done for several months again. It seems as if the owner does just enough to make it look like there is some intent to make the structure usable. I think it's just a ploy to stall for time until some developer offers a huge sum for it.

That entire area certainly could be used for something that would be wildly successful. My vote would be for a Flix Brewhouse (selfish wish since i've moved from Edmond to Norman and really like the Flix at the Half.)

Absolutely my thoughts too. The only thing that kills it is the terrible road design in that area. I’m surprised the theater and or that hotel haven’t mysteriously burnt down yet. Been eye sores for years now and it would be fantastic if Flix came down this way

[SEMIweather]

That theater is getting renovated, yes?