Why Vote No - Video

[betts]

Triple tax time. Tax on everyone for luxury improvements . Ticket prices will go up on everybody. Then we will need another tax for something important.

Sorry, I'm being cranky tonight. I do not believe this forum is the kind of place to make pat statements that don't really say much. Please explain your statements for the benefit of the other readers. This is not the kind of place for gratuitous posting, although I am probably overstepping my bounds as a participant, not a mod.

[Doug Loudenback]

Betts, I think that David is just thinking that another stab at undefined hyperbole will help his cause. David doesn't want to "explain," he just likes "catch" phrases, like "maps for millionaires and "more important things" ala his probable mentor.

But ... wait ... hang on ... it's only been 11-12 or so hours since my "critique" was posted ... I'm expecting David to come back with a huge reply vis a vis his video and/or other things. I'd expect nothing less ... soooo ... stay tuned!

[Slivermoon]

If anyone has been really paying attention, and obviously many of you have, the proposal calls for major changes on every level. Yes, many new luxury seating opprotunities are made available, including the "bunker suites," but lots of "Joe Six-Pack" improvements are included on every level.

More importantly, consider the average ticket price to an NBA game. The more luxury seating capacity that can be added to the Ford that didn't exist when the Hornets were here (i.e. Loge Boxes, Sky Boxes, Bunker Suites, etc.), the more ticket revenue that can be generated. Consequently, there is less stress to increase the average ticket price on the rest of the seating bowl for the general public, making the NBA experience more accessible.

I consider this design a great asset for families, school groups and people like me who are not high rollers.

[betts]

More importantly, consider the average ticket price to an NBA game. The more luxury seating capacity that can be added to the Ford that didn't exist when the Hornets were here (i.e. Loge Boxes, Sky Boxes, Bunker Suites, etc.), the more ticket revenue that can be generated. Consequently, there is less stress to increase the average ticket price on the rest of the seating bowl for the general public, making the NBA experience more accessible.

I've never been in one of the suites, and really have no interest in them, but was fine with adding a few more and improving them. I hadn't really thought about the benefits of suites to the general public, until Mayor Cornett said precisely what you've just said about the high rollers taking some of the financial burden off the team so that ticket prices for most of the seats could be kept lower.

That makes perfect sense to me, and I'm for anything that makes an NBA game accessible to anyone in the city who wants to attend.

[OSUFan]

Do you really think a bond is the way to go? That is why the economics don't work well in other cities. The cities go in debt. Cities are still paying for arenas that don't even have teams anymore.

[betts]

Did someone suggest a bond? I agree OSUFan. It's a really poor economic model. I think economists figured out that if they remodel the Key Arena in Seattle using bonds again, given the fact that they will have to wait until 2012 to even start paying for them because of the bonds on the baseball and football stadiums, it will be 25 years after the remodel is completed that it will be paid off. They will probably need a new arena before then. Also, we don't have the tourist traffic here to use hotel and motel tax like they do in Seattle, so we'd probably have to use a ticket tax, and the people of lower incomes probably would not be able to afford to go to games.

[bombermwc]

Bonds work as long as they are handled well. If you don't overspend, then you reap the benefits. I think we have all seen that OKC has done a marvelous job of handling bonds in the last 20 years...and think back folks, it really has been almost 20 years since MAPs was origionally born as an idea (not talking the vote). Now I know MAPs wasn't a bond project, BUT those since then have been handled well. It's all a matter of leadership...and the leadership since MAPs was conceived has balanced bonds responsibly. Before that...not sure much.

All of the projects have helped to give OKC a new life, so don't even for a second think that we would be here without them. We wouldn't even have this conversation right now, we'd be reading about another building being emptied downtown, if we even cared enough to have a forum.

OKC isn't even close to being in debt. And projects like the Ford Center WAY MORE than pay for themselves. The ROI on projects like this aren't always immediately seen, but they are there. Sometimes in less-tangile ways though. Image is a huge player in the world. When folks travel through and see an event here and go "that's a nice place" they are more likely to come back again. If it's mediocre or crappy, they dont....ie the Cox Center. The Ford Center has been an eye opening venue for much of the U.S. to what we have. So many events wouldnt have come here if it wasn't here...and we would be going to Dallas to give our money away for the events there.

David lost his arguement before he made it, and he refuses to admit it.

[jbrown84]

Did someone suggest a bond?

That's Mr. Glover's supposed solution.

Speaking of Mr. Glover... It's been 4 days since Doug posted his in-depth response to your video--which you posted, seeking discussion.

SO WHERE IS YOUR RESPONSE??

[Doug Loudenback]

That's Mr. Glover's supposed solution.

Speaking of Mr. Glover... It's been 4 days since Doug posted his in-depth response to your video--which you posted, seeking discussion.

SO WHERE IS YOUR RESPONSE??

Yeah ... sigh ... Doug Dawg don't get no respect! Maybe David will also chime in on the pseudo-Okc march4vote.org ... exposed here (it's a SF California deal the owner of which has also posted a "petition" in Florida opposing public funding for an arena there ...see Doug Dawgz Blog: www.march4vote.org ... the march4vote.org website also hosts David's video.

Seems as though David (are you listening ... you made us listen?) doesn't really want to "engage" ... not a problem ... he has probably decided to vote the big YES already!

[Midtowner]

Someone said general revenue bond?

Of all the idiotic things...

Such bonds are about the dumbest way to do public finance. It's like making big purchases on your high interest credit card, then paying it off making minimum payments.

Why on Earth would that be a better option than a tax which will be over in just a few short years, leaving a completely satisfied obligation?

[Kerry]

Hey David, when the poor stop getting an earned income tax credit for income THEY DID NOT EARN then you can complain about the "poor" paying a sales tax for goods and services they did use. BTW, has anyone asked the "poor" if they would like to have an NBA team in OKC or are the likes of David the arbitors of what the poor want?

[jbrown84]

Someone said general revenue bond?

Of all the idiotic things...

Such bonds are about the dumbest way to do public finance. It's like making big purchases on your high interest credit card, then paying it off making minimum payments.

Why on Earth would that be a better option than a tax which will be over in just a few short years, leaving a completely satisfied obligation?

Exactly. But this is the almighty solution proposed by David Glover.

[Midtowner]

Exactly. But this is the almighty solution proposed by David Glover.

He'd apparently rather his children or grandchildren pay the debt service and a few extra million dollars in interest to bond holders.

-- I'll bet that Clay Bennett would even own some of the bonds!

[Kerry]

David - The silence is deafening

[jbrown84]

I can hear the Vote NO campaign collapsing like a 50 year old bridge as we speak...

[SouthsideSooner]

The Hunt for Voter Power
February 26th, 2008 · 1 Comment

Doug Loudenback put a lot of time into hunting down the march4vote.org people and turned up more links to the West Coast for Voter Power, which also happens to be one of the e-mail aliases Rob Jones is using. That’s tenacity.

Rob Jones, by the way, has yet to appear at our office as promised. He also hasn’t responded to requests for anyother proof of identity or residence.

The Journal Record’s Hot Topic — Blogging what’s on the top of your mind and tip of your tongue

[jbrown84]

I remain very suspicious of this Rob Jones, because he hasn't appeared in public like David Glover or Steve Hunt.

[FritterGirl]

I noted where David Cay Johnston, he of "Free Lunch" fame and very vocal anti-sports subsidization guru will be in OKC on Friday and Saturday to speak out publicly against the March 4 vote.

He is being sponsored by the Metro Media Awareness Alliance, Steve Hunt's organization.

Anyone know where he'll be or when? The JR blog failed to mention details.

Perhaps we need a silent protest rally. A group of friends standing around holding up our "Yes" signs.

[jbrown84]

If they can come to our rallies, we can go to theirs!

[FritterGirl]

Here's the scoop (and I'll post this in multiple locations):

Per the Oklahoma Media Awareness Alliance's website, Mr. Johnston's and book signing will be held at:

Belle Isle Library
NW Expressway at Villa
Friday, February 29 3:30 - 5:30 p.m.

OK Media Alliance also has several "events" planned. Not sure if Mr. Johnston will be involved in these, or not, although given there is another book signing on March 1, I would assume he is there.

Friday 2/29
IHOP Lunch discussion 1pm (classen circle)
Bell Isle Library 3:30-5:30 pm

Saturday 3/1
Mayflower Church 10-12 am
Barnes & Noble booksigning 1pm (Memorial rd location)
Norman Barnes & Nobles booksigning 4:30-6pm

I wonder if their Mayflower appearance is sanctioned by Dr. Meyers. If so, I'm a bit disappointed in him.

For more information, visit Home - Oklahoma Media Awareness Alliance

[Kerry]

The anti-tax guy is doing his book signing at a publicly funded library? ROFLMAO.

[jbrown84]

The anti-tax guy is doing his book signing at a publicly funded library? ROFLMAO.

He's padding the pockets of millionaire book authors!

[Kerry]

He's padding the pockets of millionaire book authors!

Yes, and at the expense of the tax payer no less. What a hypocrite!

[betts]

My favorite item is the signs made up for the "No" vote. They read: " Vote No Sales Tax March 4th". They "No" vote group accuses Mayor Cornett of lying with his "this is not a tax increase", but this sign actually implies that sales tax will disappear if you vote "No". As always, do what I say, not what I do.

[bornhere]

David Cay Johnston is not an 'anti-tax guy.' He's a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter who has investigated how major league sports and other corporate entities benefit from tax incentives and other government support.

I would urge you to stay away lest you overhear something not approved for your consumption by the Oklahoman and the CofC.