U.S. Natural Gas Supplies

[Servicetech571]

I just went and looked and don't see anywhere that it says Propane only. It actually only says LP in one place. Other than that it's similar warnings about hot water and gas smell. It's a bradford white. I googled the model number and it is a propane model, but looks like it also comes in a NG model. So makes me wonder if you could buy the NG parts to install.

Mine only says NG on the gas valve itself, appearently the valve cannot be converted. To convert you would have to replace the gas valve and the burner orfice. AGA rating would be lost in the process. A conventional NG water heater is $350, and yours is probably the same 7yrs the house is. Water heaters are typically good for 10-15 years. Not worth the the effort to convert, just buy a new WH.

[Zuplar]

Mine only says NG on the gas valve itself, appearently the valve cannot be converted. To convert you would have to replace the gas valve and the burner orfice. AGA rating would be lost in the process. A conventional NG water heater is $350, and yours is probably the same 7yrs the house is. Water heaters are typically good for 10-15 years. Not worth the the effort to convert, just buy a new WH.

Probably a good point, might even be an opportunity to upgrade. I'm hoping to hear back from ONG today or tomorrow at the latest, but with the weather that could be delayed. I'm hoping the line is close enough they are going to do it for next to nothing. I'm just wondering how they tie it into my existing lines.

[ctchandler]

Zuplar,
It's a "State". Did you see my post #4? I posted what it cost me in the late 90's, And I think that's a little higher than I actually paid. I seem to remember that it was actually between $1,600 and $1,650.
C. T.

What brand is yours? I would think it would be easy but things nowadays seem not to be. If it couldn't be converted that could be a deal breaker. That is assuming to run the line is cheap.

[ctchandler]

Servicetech571,
From propane to ng. Why would I go the other way? The conversion to ng has saved me a bundle, even when I was paying 75 cents per gallon. When I had it done, the plumber didn't even look at the water heater, there was no question that they could be converted. It was so easy, it wasn't an issue.
C. T.

Did you convert from Propane to NG or the other way around?

Most water heaters are not rated for conversion, but that doesn't mean it can't be done...

[Zuplar]

Zuplar,
It's a "State". Did you see my post #4? I posted what it cost me in the late 90's, And I think that's a little higher than I actually paid. I seem to remember that it was actually between $1,600 and $1,650.
C. T.

Yeah, I missed that early, but see it now. My other concern is how they would connect the line to my existing. Right now it goes in the house by the driveway which is all concrete. My tank is buried so there isn't any visible lines other than into the house.

[Servicetech571]

Servicetech571,
From propane to ng. Why would I go the other way? The conversion to ng has saved me a bundle, even when I was paying 75 cents per gallon. When I had it done, the plumber didn't even look at the water heater, there was no question that they could be converted. It was so easy, it wasn't an issue.
C. T.

Propane to NG of course, brain fart.
You did your conversion on a 20yr old water heater, back when they used to be convertable.
The old water heaters only cost $100 - $150 and were convertable. Then the EPA got involved. Now they cost $300+ and aren't convertable.

[blangtang]

natty gas prices +8 or 9 % today...jeez!

guess its cold and its winter.

[PennyQuilts]

Glad I saw this thread - I came on to specifically talk about propane costs and the shortages. DANG.

We also have a 1000 gallon tank and I added 500 gallons last August at $1.80 a gallon. That put us right at 700 gallons and I'd expected that to get us through mid March or later when, I hoped, prices would be reasonable. Then this winter and the shortages struck. Yikes.

I have a 3000 square foot house with all propane appliances except the microwave. I've used right at 380 gallons since August 29, including the past two bitterly cold months, and that is nowhere near the amount that Zuplar apparently uses. That's craziness!! We have two AC/heater units and maybe this house is better insulated but it is always super comfortable. (btw, we replaced two hot water tanks, last year, and got rebates on both of them for propane - the propane vendor was super nice about helping us fill out the paperwork). When this house was built they didn't have the NG option but we do now. We haven't switched over because we replaced most of the propane appliances three years ago. If we were building new, we'd definitely go with geothermal. If this propane thing starts getting chronic we may have to reconsider but I always liked the idea of having my fuel already paid for and where I could get to it.

Anywho, being a stewer and a fretter, I've been irritating husband for the past couple of days over concerns that we are going to run out of fuel and it is going to be sky high to replace it. I saw the reports of $5.00 a gallon propane and that some vendors aren't even letting residential customers buy on credit because they simply can't afford to pay. Terrible. We still have over 300 gallons in the tank but longterm weather reports suggest February isn't going to give us much of a break. I am skeptical that prices will come down all that much by mid March and by that time, I'd be starting to lose sleep over that dang empty tank.

I called our propane vendor and they have it at $3.40 but said it was going way up, starting tomorrow. We locked in another 300 gallons at that price so I will be able to sleep easy. I just wish I'd completely filled the blasted thing last August and saved myself several hundred dollars.

[Servicetech571]

natty gas prices +8 or 9 % today...jeez!

guess its cold and its winter.

It will be interesting to see how it affects ONG bills next month. Really happy we upgraded our furnace to a condensing model last year...

[Zuplar]

Glad I saw this thread - I came on to specifically talk about propane costs and the shortages. DANG.

We also have a 1000 gallon tank and I added 500 gallons last August at $1.80 a gallon. That put us right at 700 gallons and I'd expected that to get us through mid March or later when, I hoped, prices would be reasonable. Then this winter and the shortages struck. Yikes.

I have a 3000 square foot house with all propane appliances except the microwave. I've used right at 380 gallons since August 29, including the past two bitterly cold months, and that is nowhere near the amount that Zuplar apparently uses. That's craziness!! We have two AC/heater units and maybe this house is better insulated but it is always super comfortable. (btw, we replaced two hot water tanks, last year, and got rebates on both of them for propane - the propane vendor was super nice about helping us fill out the paperwork). When this house was built they didn't have the NG option but we do now. We haven't switched over because we replaced most of the propane appliances three years ago. If we were building new, we'd definitely go with geothermal. If this propane thing starts getting chronic we may have to reconsider but I always liked the idea of having my fuel already paid for and where I could get to it.

Anywho, being a stewer and a fretter, I've been irritating husband for the past couple of days over concerns that we are going to run out of fuel and it is going to be sky high to replace it. I saw the reports of $5.00 a gallon propane and that some vendors aren't even letting residential customers buy on credit because they simply can't afford to pay. Terrible. We still have over 300 gallons in the tank but longterm weather reports suggest February isn't going to give us much of a break. I am skeptical that prices will come down all that much by mid March and by that time, I'd be starting to lose sleep over that dang empty tank.

I called our propane vendor and they have it at $3.40 but said it was going way up, starting tomorrow. We locked in another 300 gallons at that price so I will be able to sleep easy. I just wish I'd completely filled the blasted thing last August and saved myself several hundred dollars.

Yeah I'm not sure why I use so much, doesn't make any sense. My house is newer and I checked the insulation and a lot of areas I show a depth of 11 inches. Sure there are some lower spots, but nothing to be overly concerned with. Since the end of September till Monday, 1/27/14 I've used 470 gallons. Normally I keep it cooler during the day, but my wife had been at home because she was layed off so I expected to use more than the previous year, plus with the addition of the colder weather.

I'd sure like someone who knew all of about this stuff to give it all a once over to see where I could maybe save some money and use less gas. I've had someone check the furnace out at the beginning of the year and they said it looked fine and everything worked, but still I'd like it to be working as efficiently as possible.

Anyways just not sure who could do that. PennyQuilts I know you live by me, so if you don't mind me asking, who do you normally use for propane?

[ou48A]

Have any of you looked into buying a wood burning stove.... ?

Once you get into Kansas on to the north you see a lot of them being used in small towns / rural settings..
Some of them have out side fresh air ducted to them. Some have blowers and have been hooked up to a central heat and air system.

I have a cousin who put one in his full basment. The heat radiates up though the floor of his entier house.

[Zuplar]

Have any of you looked into buying a wood burning stove.... ?

Once you get into Kansas on to the north you see a lot of them being used in small towns / rural settings..
Some of them have out side fresh air ducted to them. Some have blowers and have been hooked up to a central heat and air system.

I have a cousin who put one in his full basment. The heat radiates up though the floor of his entier house.

My grandparents have one that has a blower that puts out some decent heat. I wouldn't mind having something since I just have an open fireplace. Not sure how I could convert it to anything that wasn't as worthless as the fireplace is.

[kelroy55]

Have any of you looked into buying a wood burning stove.... ?

Once you get into Kansas on to the north you see a lot of them being used in small towns / rural settings..
Some of them have out side fresh air ducted to them. Some have blowers and have been hooked up to a central heat and air system.

I have a cousin who put one in his full basment. The heat radiates up though the floor of his entier house.

When I lived out in the country in Nebraska I had two of them. One was an insert into a fireplace with a blower and the other I had installed in the other part of the house. Kept the place pretty comfortable in those Nebraska winters.

[ctchandler]

OU48a,
A good friend has a Buck wood burner. The problem is, he can't use it unless it gets down into the 20's. It's actually too hot to use all of the time. He loves it at times, but it is not used much.
C. T.

Have any of you looked into buying a wood burning stove.... ?

Once you get into Kansas on to the north you see a lot of them being used in small towns / rural settings..
Some of them have out side fresh air ducted to them. Some have blowers and have been hooked up to a central heat and air system.

I have a cousin who put one in his full basment. The heat radiates up though the floor of his entier house.

[PennyQuilts]

Yeah I'm not sure why I use so much, doesn't make any sense. My house is newer and I checked the insulation and a lot of areas I show a depth of 11 inches. Sure there are some lower spots, but nothing to be overly concerned with. Since the end of September till Monday, 1/27/14 I've used 470 gallons. Normally I keep it cooler during the day, but my wife had been at home because she was layed off so I expected to use more than the previous year, plus with the addition of the colder weather.

I'd sure like someone who knew all of about this stuff to give it all a once over to see where I could maybe save some money and use less gas. I've had someone check the furnace out at the beginning of the year and they said it looked fine and everything worked, but still I'd like it to be working as efficiently as possible.

Anyways just not sure who could do that. PennyQuilts I know you live by me, so if you don't mind me asking, who do you normally use for propane?

We use Morrison Propane. They are out in Minco which seems further away but our realtor was from Union City and recommended them. They usually come right out and have always been nice. About three years ago, we seemed to be going through a lot of fuel and they soaped it for us to look for leaks but didn't find one. A few weeks later, husband messed with the fitting and after that it quit using so much fuel. We replaced both furnaces, last summer, and hopefully they are more cost efficient but I never really noticed much of a problem with the old one.

[Zuplar]

We use Morrison Propane. They are out in Minco which seems further away but our realtor was from Union City and recommended them. They usually come right out and have always been nice. About three years ago, we seemed to be going through a lot of fuel and they soaped it for us to look for leaks but didn't find one. A few weeks later, husband messed with the fitting and after that it quit using so much fuel. We replaced both furnaces, last summer, and hopefully they are more cost efficient but I never really noticed much of a problem with the old one.

Do you know what all he soaped? I've thought about doing the same just to doable check. I've heard of Morrison and seen the trucks. I use Rumley which is also out of Minco. I'd like to have a couple different options set up that way I can shop a little bit. I've heard that prices are expected to go down some in the next 2 weeks, so fingers crossed here.

[ou48A]

The Cochin propane pipeline from Canada, owned and operated by Kinder Morgan, is now operational.
It had been shut down for serious maintenance for several weeks.... This along with warmer weather should gradually bring down the high propane prices.

[PennyQuilts]

Do you know what all he soaped? I've thought about doing the same just to doable check. I've heard of Morrison and seen the trucks. I use Rumley which is also out of Minco. I'd like to have a couple different options set up that way I can shop a little bit. I've heard that prices are expected to go down some in the next 2 weeks, so fingers crossed here.

I wasn't here but according to Husband, they soaped the whole thing. Obviously they were looking closely at the fittings but they soaped everything. If the prices drop substantially within two weeks, my husband is going to be aggravated with me. But I still hope they do.

[Zuplar]

The Cochin propane pipeline from Canada, owned and operated by Kinder Morgan, is now operational.
It had been shut down for serious maintenance for several weeks.... This along with warmer weather should gradually bring down the high propane prices.

I've read a couple places that say once weather warms up and distribution picks up, the prices are going to fall just as fast as they rose. Sure hope this is true.

[Zuplar]

I wasn't here but according to Husband, they soaped the whole thing. Obviously they were looking closely at the fittings but they soaped everything. If the prices drop substantially within two weeks, my husband is going to be aggravated with me. But I still hope they do.

Thanks for the info. I sure hope prices come down too. I understand wanting to be cautious and not run out, so he shouldn't be too mad.

[PennyQuilts]

Thanks for the info. I sure hope prices come down too. I understand wanting to be cautious and not run out, so he shouldn't be too mad.

It won't be mad - it will be "I told you so," which is sometimes worse.

[Zuplar]

It won't be mad - it will be "I told you so," which is sometimes worse.

Then you can tell him it must be nice to have all the answers, lol.

[PennyQuilts]

Then you can tell him it must be nice to have all the answers, lol.

"Ignore me at your peril," is a common refrain. It is infuriating but typically, he's right.