OKC Regional Transit System

[Hutch]

Stadler Rail FLIRT DMU for DART's New Silverline

[Teo9969]

The way that OETA news story came off, they're looking at passing a referendum within the not so distant future.

I have no doubt that if we miss the federal dollars on this that we will not see any significant development in regional transit until the 40s or 50s. Really hope this picks up some momentum over the next 6 m months and a vote is announced for 2023.

[catch22]

I’m really not convinced this will pass. I hope to be wrong. I don’t think the political willpower is there in such a polarized political setting in a red state.

I just don’t feel good about the timing of this. This should have been done 5 years ago.

[shawnw]

I DO think they need to get at the front of the ask-line because of all the things coming down the pike... Arena, 2027 GO bond, MAPS 5, Oops-we-still-can-pay-for-the-jail-give-us-more-money, etc

[FighttheGoodFight]

https://nondoc.com/2023/05/02/rta-co...edmond-norman/

Looks like this will be on a ballot come 2024 for Edmond, OKC and Norman. This will be interesting to see how much sales tax they want for this. Also mentioned in the article is it took about 6 years to build a similar project in Salt Lake City. That is actually faster than I thought.

[catch22]

Great news! Good to hear of some progress and especially BNSF willingness to work with the RTA.

[FighttheGoodFight]

A rail line from Edmond - OKC to Norman on football game days would be amazing. Make the roads a lot safer and cut down on that crazy traffic.

[amocore]

A rail line from Edmond - OKC to Norman on football game days would be amazing. Make the roads a lot safer and cut down on that crazy traffic.

How many home game though ? 6 a year ? A bit light but I like the idea of Edmond . DT OKC DT Norman line.

[FighttheGoodFight]

How many home game though ? 6 a year ? A bit light but I like the idea of Edmond . DT OKC DT Norman line.

6 a year. With the move to the SEC it is only going to be busier. A rail line from the airport is also a no brainer.

[Jake]

I was at the Edmond Railyard not too long ago and thought to myself, "How cool would it be to take a train to downtown OKC from here and vice versa?"

Hope this all comes to fruition. An Edmond/OKC/Norman line would be great.

[Just the facts]

A rail line from Edmond - OKC to Norman on football game days would be amazing. Make the roads a lot safer and cut down on that crazy traffic.

A rail line will have almost 0 impact on existing traffic for those that still choose to drive. Rail systems are deemed a failure because the reduced traffic never materializes so selling rail as a traffic reduction tool is a non-starter. Rail is to traffic as aspirin is to a headache - it only relieves the pain of the person taking it.

[MagzOK]

A rail line will have almost 0 impact on existing traffic for those that still choose to drive. Rail systems are deemed a failure because the reduced traffic never materializes so selling rail as a traffic reduction tool is a non-starter. Rail is to traffic as aspirin is to a headache - it only relieves the pain of the person taking it.

I generally agree with this statement, however specifically on game days it would help. If you had multiple park and ride stops along the rail line to a certain point (this point being a stop within walking distance to the OU football stadium) it would be beneficial. For example going to OU/Texas games, the DART rail is jam packed all the way down and sure, while there are plenty of people driving vehicles, the riders in the rail cars are not. Question is, would the cost be worth it for OU football games? I think it'd be used big time for these. However, you wouldn't build a commuter rail line just for this.

Other than that, I certainly agree. The majority of people in Oklahoma love their big gas guzzling vehicles and many would rather sit in them comfortably in traffic listening to the Sports Animal, their favorite podcast, or their favorite music, decompressing alone before getting home instead of sitting around other people.

But hey, why not put it up to the vote of the people.

[mugofbeer]

It may be an uneducated thought, but wonder if the city does any significant-scale surveying across demographics on exactly what the citizens would like to see in OKC? I think it would be interesting to see a well-publicized and consistent program brought out that consistently polls people on their thoughts and priorities on a city web site. It wouldn't be a vote or a referendum but just an idea of public opinion on various subjects.

[LocoAko]

It may be an uneducated thought, but wonder if the city does any significant-scale surveying across demographics on exactly what the citizens would like to see in OKC? I think it would be interesting to see a well-publicized and consistent program brought out that consistently polls people on their thoughts and priorities on a city web site. It wouldn't be a vote or a referendum but just an idea of public opinion on various subjects.

They do a citizen survey every year (https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/4252/18), in addition to many other smaller scale surveys.

[Just the facts]

The majority of people in Oklahoma love their big gas guzzling vehicles and many would rather sit in them comfortably in traffic listening to the Sports Animal, their favorite podcast, or their favorite music, decompressing alone before getting home instead of sitting around other people.

But hey, why not put it up to the vote of the people.

How does anyone know what they prefer if they don't have any options to pick from?

[BDP]

https://nondoc.com/2023/05/02/rta-co...edmond-norman/

Looks like this will be on a ballot come 2024 for Edmond, OKC and Norman. This will be interesting to see how much sales tax they want for this. Also mentioned in the article is it took about 6 years to build a similar project in Salt Lake City. That is actually faster than I thought.

Edmond

• North Edmond Station
• Downtown Edmond Station

Oklahoma City

• John Kilpatrick Turnpike Station
• 63rd Street Station
• North OKC Station
• Santa Fe Depot
• 29th Street Station

Norman

• Tecumseh Road Station
• Downtown Norman Station
• OU Special Event Station
• South Norman Station

These are the stations they proposed. Most are pretty self explanatory, but do we know where the "North OKC" and "South Norman" stations would be?

[BDP]

The majority of people in Oklahoma love their big gas guzzling vehicles and many would rather sit in them comfortably in traffic listening to the Sports Animal, their favorite podcast, or their favorite music, decompressing alone before getting home instead of sitting around other people.

Based on some of our other traffic / driving conversations, I'm not convinced all of them are successfully "decompressing" during their commutes. lol

[stlokc]

It's so funny to me how the conversations immediately pivot to "OU Football" as if that is the only thing worth thinking about. How about all the people that commute every day up and down I-35? How about all the people that pay $50 to park or Uber to the airport? How about all the people that work at Tinker AFB and in the industrial areas to the west and southwest? How about the dozens of Thunder games and concerts and events that happen downtown?

OKC seriously needs to plan for transit of this type. It is well-past time.

[W8N2SKI]

These are the stations they proposed. Most are pretty self explanatory, but do we know where the "North OKC" and "South Norman" stations would be?

South Norman is proposed to be either at Cedar Lane or near the Buffalo Wild Wings on Highway 9

[BDP]

It's so funny to me how the conversations immediately pivot to "OU Football" as if that is the only thing worth thinking about. How about all the people that commute every day up and down I-35? How about all the people that pay $50 to park or Uber to the airport? How about all the people that work at Tinker AFB and in the industrial areas to the west and southwest? How about the dozens of Thunder games and concerts and events that happen downtown?

I think the football games kind of represent max potential usage at a given time. I don't think there is anything else where 85k people are going to the same place at the same time in OK on a predictable schedule. And it may be the only time a lot of people in the metro actually experience heavy freeway congestion due to traffic flowing to a single destination.

Obviously, I-35 experiences slow downs at certain points on a day to day basis. But they're not all going to the same place. I assume that downtown has the highest density of daily workers and this says there are 55,000 workers downtown. That looks to be about a 2015 number and a lot has changed since then, but if that number is still the same, that would be about 7% of the workforce. I have no idea what part of that number commutes along the Norman / Edmond I-35 corridor or what percentage of that would it make sense to use the train.

I think OKC has always had a decentralized work force amongst a very low density landscape. That's always kept comprehensive rail service from gaining traction. I think to successfully sell this to voters, the RTA will need to show it serving a need, that there will be justifiable demand, and that it's scalable in service and economics to meet that demand in a cost effective way, at least compared to, say, adding 60 miles of new freeway lanes every so often to meet that demand.

In a way, the OU football game service is a selling point, or value add, that people can wrap their heads around, while the system would mostly be built to serve all of the other needs you outlined in your post.

OKC seriously needs to plan for transit of this type. It is well-past time.

I totally agree. Any competitive city needs a mix of transportation options and this is a good way to leverage current assets to develop another commute option in the OKC metro. Honestly, I think the biggest thing the cities involved will need to address is the "last mile" part of the equation. If the access points require most potential users to still drive to those points, because there's no other option, how much with that affect real demand?

[BDP]

South Norman is proposed to be either at Cedar Lane or near the Buffalo Wild Wings on Highway 9

Potential corporate sponsorship???

[stlokc]

BDP, I want to thank you for a very good, well-thought-out response.

I agree about the "last mile" problem. This will be a particular problem when you realize that a huge portion of the metro area lives northwest and they effectively have no entry point into the system as imagined. People aren't going to drive from the Deer Creek area or the PC North/PC Central area to one of these lines. If they have to drive half way to their destination to get to a train stop, they are just going to drive all the way. Big problem with any city in the middle of the country.

[warreng88]

Are people forgetting about 41 home games a year for the Thunder? I, personally, know an least a dozen people who drive in from Edmond for every game. I would guess this would drop at Santa Fe and people would walk to the arena from there. I know traffic isn't as bad as OU games, but there are a lot more of them.

[GoGators]

I think the football games kind of represent max potential usage at a given time. I don't think there is anything else where 85k people are going to the same place at the same time in OK on a predictable schedule. And it may be the only time a lot of people in the metro actually experience heavy freeway congestion due to traffic flowing to a single destination.

Obviously, I-35 experiences slow downs at certain points on a day to day basis. But they're not all going to the same place. I assume that downtown has the highest density of daily workers and this says there are 55,000 workers downtown. That looks to be about a 2015 number and a lot has changed since then, but if that number is still the same, that would be about 7% of the workforce. I have no idea what part of that number commutes along the Norman / Edmond I-35 corridor or what percentage of that would it make sense to use the train.

I think OKC has always had a decentralized work force amongst a very low density landscape. That's always kept comprehensive rail service from gaining traction. I think to successfully sell this to voters, the RTA will need to show it serving a need, that there will be justifiable demand, and that it's scalable in service and economics to meet that demand in a cost effective way, at least compared to, say, adding 60 miles of new freeway lanes every so often to meet that demand.

In a way, the OU football game service is a selling point, or value add, that people can wrap their heads around, while the system would mostly be build to serve all of the other needs you outlined in your post.



I totally agree. Any competitive city needs a mix of transportation options and this is a good way to leverage current assets to develop another commute option in the OKC metro. Honestly, I think the biggest thing the cities involved will need to address is the "last mile" part of the equation. If the access points require most potential users to still drive to those points, because there's no other option, how much with that affect real demand?

The last mile part of the equation is already starting to be addressed in multiple locations already. You have fairly dense housing/amenities/employment/entertainment clusters already popping up in areas that would be prime locations for commuter rail stops. It seems to be something the market is pushing for regardless of a yes or no vote on commuter rail.

An eventual commuter rail between these locations would plug in pretty easily to these existing areas and help spur even more dense development.

[Teo9969]

These are the stations they proposed. Most are pretty self explanatory, but do we know where the "North OKC" and "South Norman" stations would be?

No stop at 240?! Otherwise it's 12 miles from 29th to Tecumseh. I get not stopping in Moore, but 12 miles is a lot that probably misses out on an easier link to some sort of Tinker to Rail bus connection.