2014 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion

[HangryHippo]

With the direction that Frontier is headed, I don't really view that as a loss for OKC. We still have flights to Denver and I'm okay with them not being on Frontier. However, to lose Newark just sucks.

Venture or Catch, with United dropping that route, do we see AA or Delta step up (or even Jetblue (longest of longshots, I know) serve NYC? Catch, was United's route axed because of poor passenger numbers? The flight was usually pretty full when I took it.

[catch22]

Good loads just is an expensive flight to operate. $4000-$5000 in fuel (which United buys, not Xjet) each way. Add in the CPA and it quickly adds up.

[venture]

With the direction that Frontier is headed, I don't really view that as a loss for OKC. We still have flights to Denver and I'm okay with them not being on Frontier. However, to lose Newark just sucks.

Venture or Catch, with United dropping that route, do we see AA or Delta step up (or even Jetblue (longest of longshots, I know) serve NYC? Catch, was United's route axed because of poor passenger numbers? The flight was usually pretty full when I took it.

First part I see Frontier leaving a loss for OKC because it offers service to the lower fare market. This is something we won't have anymore once they leave. Southwest is well established now charging fares that are more in line with traditional legacies, so there won't be much to keep airlines in line fare wise. Things won't get totally out of control, but the fare pressure won't be there to keep many honest.

Now for New York...I don't see anyone moving in to replace them if this suspension is long term. With all the reshuffling of slots the last couple of years, more value has been put in other markets and OKC overlooked. The part that is really hurting us is that 50-seaters are getting parked and an airline is going to have to be willing to fly something larger to start the service.

[HangryHippo]

First part I see Frontier leaving a loss for OKC because it offers service to the lower fare market. This is something we won't have anymore once they leave. Southwest is well established now charging fares that are more in line with traditional legacies, so there won't be much to keep airlines in line fare wise. Things won't get totally out of control, but the fare pressure won't be there to keep many honest.

Now for New York...I don't see anyone moving in to replace them if this suspension is long term. With all the reshuffling of slots the last couple of years, more value has been put in other markets and OKC overlooked. The part that is really hurting us is that 50-seaters are getting parked and an airline is going to have to be willing to fly something larger to start the service.

Well, it would be less of a bummer if we could get connected to Philadelphia and have something nonstop that can get me to the northeast, but it would be ideal for me personally if one of the airlines would bring us into JFK or LGA. Do the Embraer 170s/190s make the economics on that route more viable?

[gopokes88]

I would love a virgin America flight. Don't even care where it goes.

[adaniel]

Well, it would be less of a bummer if we could get connected to Philadelphia and have something nonstop that can get me to the northeast, but it would be ideal for me personally if one of the airlines would bring us into JFK or LGA. Do the Embraer 170s/190s make the economics on that route more viable?

Getting OKC-LGA would be very difficult since there is a "perimeter" rule that severely restricts flights past a certain point. Someone feel free to correct me, but you can't fly west of roughly Kansas City from LGA, which would leave OKC out. JFK is pretty much maxed out at this point.

Newark, in its infinte crappiness, is/was the best option for direct flights from OKC into the NYC region, as it is for most mid markets in the western half of the US. Not specificially criticizing you Hemingston, but I remember a poster on here bitching about what an inconvience it was to fly into Newark. I remember responding that it was pretty much "use it or lose it" and no other flights to that area would be coming.

If I remember correctly, OKC chamber officials really pushed for this flight route at the request of local industry to connect them with financial firms on Wall Street. EWR is a quick 15 minute PATH ride to the Financial District. So it would really stink if OKC lost this route permanently.

[adaniel]

Very surprised to be losing EWR. Can't believe they had trouble, even in the winter, filing a E145 daily to New York City! I definitely feel like OKC is oriented to the west instead of the east for business and leisure travel, what with non-stops to SFO and multiple flights to LAX, now SEA, PHX, SLC, LAS and DEN. And one daily to BWI, nothing to NYC anymore, nothing to BOS, very little to DC. I mean there is a little to DTW, CLT, and a moderate amount to ATL, but nothing to Florida. Even the smallest cities in the east have flights to Florida. People and businesses here just must be more connected to the west than east. I find that interesting. Because if you go to a place like, OMA, MCI or STL, cities not too far away, they seem much more oriented to the east than we are here. Even LIT has LGA service and two carriers to Florida! (DFW is just too big to compare, a city that large is oriented to the whole world!)

I guess there is just too much capacity to DEN from here for F9 to make it. I can't say I'll miss them, I don't care for their product.

Definitely agree with OKC's western cultural orientation and have said so on here a few times myself. Lots of people from CA in OKC, and lots of people from OKC vacation and move to places like Denver and Seattle. Can't really say the same for FL, although I remember flying to ATL a year ago and nearly everyone on the plane was connecting to go to somewhere in FL. Its a bit disappointing that OKC cannot support a flight to NYC, given that this area's corporate climate is more high profile than its been in some time.

[ljbab728]

Please note my previous post that, as of now, UA will restart OKC to EWR flights on May 6th.

[catch22]

Please note my previous post that, as of now, UA will restart OKC to EWR flights on May 6th.

Believe it when I see it. It was originally set to resume Mar 6.

[venture]

Getting OKC-LGA would be very difficult since there is a "perimeter" rule that severely restricts flights past a certain point. Someone feel free to correct me, but you can't fly west of roughly Kansas City from LGA, which would leave OKC out. JFK is pretty much maxed out at this point.

OKC is with in perimeter...it is 1500 miles and OKC is just inside that. We are the largest city in the perimeter that doesn't have service.JFK is slot controlled as well and pretty well full like you said.

[venture]

Please note my previous post that, as of now, UA will restart OKC to EWR flights on May 6th.

May 6th is nothing but a dummy schedule and place holder. Anymore than 3 months out is really meaningless in today's environment. AA is just now getting around to loading in flights for March and beyond.

[HOT ROD]

I'd suspect the EWR-OKC is a seasonal reduction. OKC can and does support the route. It's a United decision to park the plane not OKC couldn't support the route. Hopefully this is indeed temporary in response to the slower winter months.

As mentioned OKC is an active business market for financing (NYC-Wall Street, Chicago). I only wish we could get some tourism going from NYC area which would strongly tip the scales but business alone should be more than enough for that size of airplane.

[HOT ROD]

Airline to add direct flight between Oklahoma City, Seattle | News OK

This is a very good and thorough write-up about the new service to Seattle. Now that's what I'm talking about, not only the new flight but the write-up itself is very deep and answers just about any question you could have. Most newsok articles have been so lacking in content, its nice to see the details rather than just a headline and a sentence.

[OUman]

We also have nonstops to BWI with Southwest.

[adaniel]

We also have nonstops to BWI with Southwest.

Forgot about BWI. Best part of that is its the only airport on the east coast with Acela Train access. One hour train ride from BWI to Philly, two hours to Penn Station, not bad.

Please note my previous post that, as of now, UA will restart OKC to EWR flights on May 6th.

Good to hear, but you gotta admit that doesn't bode well for the future of the route.

[ljbab728]

May 6th is nothing but a dummy schedule and place holder. Anymore than 3 months out is really meaningless in today's environment. AA is just now getting around to loading in flights for March and beyond.

Airlines change flight schedules constantly so nothing is ever locked in stone even if it's less than 3 months out. Please note that I said "for now" and I absolutely promise you that you can currently book those nonstop flights. That, of course, doesn't mean they will be operating at that time. Of interest is that they don't have a similar nonstop schedule for Tulsa at all. I had to deal with over 65 reservations with flight schedule changes on Monday alone. I'm very familiar with how this works.

[bluedogok]

Getting OKC-LGA would be very difficult since there is a "perimeter" rule that severely restricts flights past a certain point. Someone feel free to correct me, but you can't fly west of roughly Kansas City from LGA, which would leave OKC out. JFK is pretty much maxed out at this point.

Newark, in its infinte crappiness, is/was the best option for direct flights from OKC into the NYC region, as it is for most mid markets in the western half of the US. Not specificially criticizing you Hemingston, but I remember a poster on here bitching about what an inconvience it was to fly into Newark. I remember responding that it was pretty much "use it or lose it" and no other flights to that area would be coming.

If I remember correctly, OKC chamber officials really pushed for this flight route at the request of local industry to connect them with financial firms on Wall Street. EWR is a quick 15 minute PATH ride to the Financial District. So it would really stink if OKC lost this route permanently.

JetBlue is what we have taken to NYC or Boston, there is one AUS-LGA flight a day, there are six to JFK and two to Newark. There are no DEN-LGA flights, five to JFK and four to Newark.

[ljbab728]

JetBlue is what we have taken to NYC or Boston, there is one AUS-LGA flight a day, there are six to JFK and two to Newark. There are no DEN-LGA flights, five to JFK and four to Newark.

UA, DL, and WN offer nonstop flights from DEN to LGA.

[venture]

Airlines change flight schedules constantly so nothing is ever locked in stone even if it's less than 3 months out. Please note that I said "for now" and I absolutely promise you that you can currently book those nonstop flights. That, of course, doesn't mean they will be operating at that time. Of interest is that they don't have a similar nonstop schedule for Tulsa at all. I had to deal with over 65 reservations with flight schedule changes on Monday alone. I'm very familiar with how this works.

I understand your experience as a travel agent, you've made that quite well known. We are ensuring people have the full picture from those of us who actually work for the airline industry directly.

[ljbab728]

I understand your experience as a travel agent, you've made that quite well known. We are ensuring people have the full picture from those of us who actually work for the airline industry directly.

I understand that there are various aspects of this and I have said that before. I was responding to those who thought the OKC to EWR nonstop flights are definitely gone and that is not the case yet even though it may happen. I appreciate that you and others may work directly for the airline industry but that alone does not give a "full picture".

[BG918]

UA, DL, and WN offer nonstop flights from DEN to LGA.

I just flew DEN-LGA on Frontier two weeks ago. Only one daily flight though.

[bluedogok]

UA, DL, and WN offer nonstop flights from DEN to LGA.

I know others have it, just relaying the experience that I have had with JetBlue and the comment that there aren't many flights to LGA west of KC since most of their flights came along in later years than United or Delta.

[ljbab728]

I just flew DEN-LGA on Frontier two weeks ago. Only one daily flight though.

They are currently only showing that as an operating flight through Dec. 19th. I don't know for sure if that means it's being discontinued but it looks that way.

[Bunty]

Stillwater Airport Authority talks terminal expansion - Stillwater News Press: News

[catch22]

Effective Jun 8 Delta increases OKC-ATL to 6 daily, up from 5. 5 MD88 and 1 A319.