Friends for a Better Boulevard

[Urban Pioneer]

Very helpful to understanding where this came from. Notice the similarities between this debate and the one back then? Numbers were being tweaked to justify the outcome. Also note that the city had their own independent consultants that did not agree and they were still "overun" by ODOT. A few specific engineers run this town my friends.

[CaptDave]

I found McCaleb's quote at the end of the story very revealing. It seems to typify the attitude of ODOT and too many other officials. We are up against quite a bit of long standing political inertia but I remain hopeful......

[jn1780]

Very helpful to understanding where this came from. Notice the similarities between this debate and the one back then? Numbers were being tweaked to justify the outcome. Also note that the city had their own independent consultants that did not agree and they were still "overun" by ODOT. A few specific engineers run this town my friends.

Overrun by.ODOT and the FHA.

But federal highway administration representatives attending the meeting said the railroad tracks already divide the neighborhood. North-south streets passing under the tracks can be rebuilt to cross over the completed highway, they said.

If this is still their attitude then I don't expect any support from the FHA.

[Tier2City]

I found McCaleb's quote at the end of the story very revealing. It seems to typify the attitude of ODOT and too many other officials. We are up against quite a bit of long standing political inertia but I remain hopeful......

You mean the bit about how "the citizens advisory board has been working for us in this process for three years” before plans became regrettably public?

[catch22]

My email to the mayor was forward down to Eric Wegner.

(Catch22) -



I received your email from the Mayor's office, and very much appreciate your interest in the Oklahoma City Boulevard project. The Oklahoma Department of Transportation is managing the project, and as you know, the planning and design is underway. They have been working closely with the City of Oklahoma City, and many ideas about the overall design have been discussed. Mayor Cornett has been involved, and the design team includes engineers, planners, a walkability expert and other consultants to help ensure the design provides the best project possible. There are many options being considered for the various components of the new roadway, including how to best address traffic flow but also to consider important elements such as future development and walkability. At this time, no decisions regarding a final design have been made. But based on progress to date, I am confident the new Boulevard will provide many new ground level opportunities, especially through the downtown core and into the Bricktown areas.



Your concern about the Boulevard being elevated is shared by many, but I believe it is due to lack of drawings and renderings that are not yet available. Although the Boulevard includes elevated sections to provide access and connections to I-44, and also to I-35/I-235, there is a significant portion of ground level roadway that is being designed to ensure opportunities for downtown access and future development. The current design ground level portion begins just east of Western Avenue and extends to the east side of Oklahoma Avenue, near the Harkins Theater. This nearly 10 block section will create several new intersections at Walker, Hudson, Harvey, Robinson, Broadway, Gaylord, and Oklahoma that don't exist today. In addition, since the new roadway will be narrower than the former highway, many areas of the existing highway right-of-way adjacent to the new boulevard will be available to further enhance development and pedestrian opportunities.



The City's goal is to develop a new boulevard that will significantly enhance the downtown Oklahoma City area. In order to provide better information, City staff is working with ODOT to make a presentation to the City Council on July 31st, which will be during their regular meeting. This meeting will be aired on Cox Channel 20 and will also be available on the City's website at www.okc.gov. ODOT has also tentatively planned a public meeting on August 21st, and we are awaiting confirmation of the time and location. I'm certain notices will be sent by ODOT as this public meeting is important to the design process.



Thanks again for your interest, and I hope you will take the opportunity to follow the update to Council and also participate in the upcoming public meeting.



Eric



Eric J. Wenger, P.E.

Director Public Works/

City Engineer

(405) 297-3486

eric.wenger@okc.gov

[Buffalo Bill]

If this is still their attitude then I don't expect any support from the FHA.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't expect any support from the FHA, either, but they did insure my first mortgage, which is nice.

[Urban Pioneer]

I've been giving that statement a great deal of thought. I think things are different. The FHWA and lawmakers aren't beholden to Ernest Istook. I was in some of those meetings after the decisions had been made via the Chamber. That was a different time.

[jn1780]

Your concern about the Boulevard being elevated is shared by many, but I believe it is due to lack of drawings and renderings that are not yet available. Although the Boulevard includes elevated sections to provide access and connections to I-44, and also to I-35/I-235, there is a significant portion of ground level roadway that is being designed to ensure opportunities for downtown access and future development. The current design ground level portion begins just east of Western Avenue and extends to the east side of Oklahoma Avenue, near the Harkins Theater. This nearly 10 block section will create several new intersections at Walker, Hudson, Harvey, Robinson, Broadway, Gaylord, and Oklahoma that don't exist today. In addition, since the new roadway will be narrower than the former highway, many areas of the existing highway right-of-way adjacent to the new boulevard will be available to further enhance development and pedestrian opportunities.

Is he really this ignorant, has a different definition of "ground level" or just lying through his teeth?

[Just the facts]

I wouldn't expect any support from the FHA, either, but they did insure my first mortgage, which is nice.

That is the subject of a whole other debate about development patterns since WWII. I would strongly argue against the "which is nice" part.

For those that are confused: FHA - Federal Housing Authority. FHWA - Federal Highway Adminstration. Both agencies work everyday to make American just a little worse than it was the day before.

[Steve]

Is he really this ignorant, has a different definition of "ground level" or just lying through his teeth?

Can someone please give me the context of the "the current design ground level portion begins just east of Western Avenue" ? Was this a letter from Wenger? Can someone send me a copy of it?

[jn1780]

Can someone please give me the context of the "the current design ground level portion begins just east of Western Avenue" ? Was this a letter from Wenger? Can someone send me a copy of it?

It was sent to catch22 from Wenger apparently.

[CuatrodeMayo]

That entirely depends on the magnitude of what is considered "just east".

[jn1780]

That entirely depends on the magnitude of what is considered "just east".

True, Western is very close to Walker in astronautical units.

[Steve]

It was sent to catch22 from Wenger apparently.

Catch22, can you send me a full copy of that email or letter so that I can post it on the OKC Central blog?

[kevinpate]

just
near
close
accessible

basically weasel/wiggle/say-nada type words

as I read it, one could possibly sum it up as
- hey, about that road. well, it's ground level at the arena and the cc, and even a little bit more than that. that'll do for the folks who actually get a say. As for the rest, well, thanks for playing.

yeah, I'm a cynic today. doesn't make me wrong though.

[Spartan]

Is he really this ignorant, has a different definition of "ground level" or just lying through his teeth?

He is technically telling the truth due to his use of approximation vis a vis Western Avenue, however it is a masterful act of deflection. I really think these guys are expecting us to go away and let them get back to being public engineers.

[Spartan]

I just emailed Greenwell, my councilman.

[Steve]

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...energy-center/

[RadicalModerate]

I know that it is just a matter of "semantics" . . . but, technically, how can a "Boulevard" not be on grade, without elevated sections? How can anyone be considering a strange rebuild of the Crosstown Expressway--except with a lower speed limit and less holes in the pavement (for awhile)?

Since "roundabouts" or "traffic circles" seem to be anathema to some folks, how about real underpasses (short tunnels) where the N/S streets intersect the E/W Boulevard? They have at least one major tunnel in another major league city (Minneapolis). They could build-in New Orleans Style Pumps (an homage to another major league city) for when the tunnels try to flood.

If they do end up building an elevated Crosstown Expressway 2--which they almost certainly will--they should name it The SkyDunce Bridge.

[CaptDave]

I may not agree with everything in this, but the "Skydunce Bridge" is hilarious!!

[Hutch]

Is he really this ignorant, has a different definition of "ground level" or just lying through his teeth?

Eric was hired by Jim Couch fresh out of college in 1994. He began his work for OKC managing MAPS projects and later became MAPS Director before recently being appointed Public Works Director. So, while he does have an engineering degree and I'm sure understands standard engineering principles quite well, his experience is that of a manager and not a design engineer. The same goes for Jim Couch. They rely on private engineering firms for design and construction of major projects.

What we're witnessing is the fact that Eric's job also includes essentially serving as Jim Couch's public and council informational officer, which unfortunately appears to often be that of a political press secretary who has been instructed to spin the story and the facts to support the party line.

[RadicalModerate]

Okay . . . Make that The SkyDunceS' Bridge.
(reversing the last "S" would be acceptable for the signage and bronze plaques)

[kevinpate]

All I know is, the more I hear and read, the less it bothers me they want to name this mess the Oklahoma City Blvd. It now seems such an appropriate name for a road that has a bit of real nice to it and the rest, well it could be oh so much more than some appear determined to permit.

[CaptDave]

I understand what you are saying kevin - I hate to think the city is going to once again settle for barely adequate when great is possible. We can do better and as citizens we should demand it from out city's leadership.

[jn1780]

I know that it is just a matter of "semantics" . . . but, technically, how can a "Boulevard" not be on grade, without elevated sections? How can anyone be considering a strange rebuild of the Crosstown Expressway--except with a lower speed limit and less holes in the pavement (for awhile)?
.

If they build it with elevated bridges I would only consider the stretch from Walker to Gaylord "the Boulevard" with everthing else being really long interstate on and off ramps. It would make more sense to call the currently planned at-grade portion "Central Park Avenue" rather than Oklahoma City Boulevard.