Boathouse Row

[Bellaboo]

bomber,

You need to go do your homework. When the river flows excessively, the flood gates open and thus goes your closed ecosystem. The fish get pushed around also, they may not go upstream, but when the gates open, they'll move downstream.

If you go back in time and look at the old historical pictures ( probably in Dougs Blog) you will see there has always been lots of water in this river. The water flow has been interrupted and controlled by the diversion into lakes Overholser and Hefner, but there has been aquatic life in this river way before statehood.

LA probably knows a little bit more about what is going on here than he's given credit. I know what his initials stand for, and if you think long and hard you will figure it out too, maybe.

[lasomeday]

la - anyway, i gues you haven't been paying attention to what's been transplanted....like the fish than randomly show up in the CLOSED canal. The fish that are in the river now are stuck. It's not a natural environment by it's design...never has been. The whole things has been man made from way back to the 20's. Even then fish couldn't really live there because the water level dropped...and that's why nothing other than bermuda grass grew there either. Nothing else was able to be sustained. It's not rocket science. The river was MOVED to its curent spot to keep it from continuing to flood the city....and why it's shaped the way it is now.

And locks also don't provide a means for fish to move up and down the river, so each section is its own closed ecosystem. I don't really know where you get your information, but if you have the degree you say you do, i'd be interested to know what your profs thought. Its easy to ramble off a "i know beause i have a degree" comment, but when you do know why things are built the way they are then you point how how little you know. Certain decisions on the way the thing is designed are done so to keep things like you want OUT. And the comments you made about things like the stockyards show you haven't been paying attention to recent history either.

Just need to do your homework before you go around criticising everything when the only ammunition you have is "oh i have a degree". Lots of people with degrees in their field don't do well at that job.

Bomber, We all know the river was straightened and deepened because of the flooding back in the early days of OKC. I know the history of OKC pretty well.

Not all fish have to swim up and down stream. Fish have moved down from Lake Overholser to the different levels of the river. It happens... The fish can live there, but not do that well. If the city would create a natural habitat for the fish they would do better.

The stockyards do contribute to the Ecoli, but its not the only source contaminant. I was just pointing out that the stockyards aren't the only problem. You need to read my posts more carefully.

I am not attacking you. I am just trying to have people think of ways the river could be better. I just don't feel like the concrete canals throughout the city and a rock channeled river contribute to the city as much as you do. We have rowing and speed boat racing, but the river could be much more. Most cities are on rivers and have utilized them as tourist attractions in different ways. The city needs to do more research in creating a more natural environment along the river and in the river. It is now basically a set of small lakes because of the dams. This creates a different eco-system than what was previously there, which creates more opportunities for the city to utlize the river. Because the river is a tourist destination, the city needs to take steps to keep it as clean and attractive as possible.

Do some research and look at other cities that have rivers. You will see what I mean. Maybe even go to Tulsa and see what theirs is like.

[Snowman]

Bomber, We all know the river was straightened and deepened because of the flooding back in the early days of OKC. I know the history of OKC pretty well.

Not all fish have to swim up and down stream. Fish have moved down from Lake Overholser to the different levels of the river. It happens... The fish can live there, but not do that well. If the city would create a natural habitat for the fish they would do better.

The stockyards do contribute to the Ecoli, but its not the only source contaminant. I was just pointing out that the stockyards aren't the only problem. You need to read my posts more carefully.

I am not attacking you. I am just trying to have people think of ways the river could be better. I just don't feel like the concrete canals throughout the city and a rock channeled river contribute to the city as much as you do. We have rowing and speed boat racing, but the river could be much more. Most cities are on rivers and have utilized them as tourist attractions in different ways. The city needs to do more research in creating a more natural environment along the river and in the river. It is now basically a set of small lakes because of the dams. This creates a different eco-system than what was previously there, which creates more opportunities for the city to utlize the river. Because the river is a tourist destination, the city needs to take steps to keep it as clean and attractive as possible.

Do some research and look at other cities that have rivers. You will see what I mean. Maybe even go to Tulsa and see what theirs is like.

The issues with our river are not unique and we have more support of civic leaders in OKC than most communities hope to get, several of the cities that have undertaken real efforts to clean their rivers were because they were to the point they were toxic in one fashion or another. It would not surprise me if we end up doing somethings and some small steps have started, one of the agency's started incentivising different farming practices near the river in 2007 between lake Canton and the wildlife preserve in OKC but before 2000 the only statement I had heard from a civic leader proposing the river's impact to tourism was it being critical to not have the river dry because coming from the airport gives an impression that will not be forgotten as us still being dry and dusty. Even in 2005 I doubt many would have expected the number of tourism opportunities along the river as likely to happen as soon as they have.

[Spartan]

What college/university did they think might be the 4th? Surely not OSU?

Wouldn't put it past them, but it seems like they've mostly been investing in Tulsa.

[dankrutka]

I think they have their own boathouse and river in Stillwater, right? The difference between OSU and these other programs is that they can't drive an hour and 15 mins for practice on a daily basis. Everyone else is within 25 mins...

[OKCisOK4me]

What river? The only stream close to.Stillwater is Cow Creek, lol

[Snowman]

They use Lake Carl Blackwell near Stillwater.

[dankrutka]

Sorry. I knew there was some body of water they used.

[bombermwc]

Maybe because other cities have an actual RIVER!?!?!?!?! The North Canadian is a creek, not a river, regardless of what we call it. Heck, we don't really even have real rivers in OK. When was the last time you saw the Arkansas with more than sandbars in it either.

That's a MAJOR difference in everything about the river. If we did have a real honest to goodness river, we'd have a totally different perspecitve on what it could be. But, it's a flood device with a couple dams on it. It's allowed it to transform into something we can play on, but that's about it. It was never done with the intention creating an ecosystem in a traditional river sense. It's actually doing exactlly what it's intent was. Personally, i think it's been great. The only races we had on it before were lawnmower and ATV.

[Bellaboo]

Maybe because other cities have an actual RIVER!?!?!?!?! The North Canadian is a creek, not a river, regardless of what we call it. Heck, we don't really even have real rivers in OK. When was the last time you saw the Arkansas with more than sandbars in it either.

bomber,

Have you ever been out of Oklahoma county ? The Arkansas river is a navigational channel that carries ocean traffic at times. Go check out the McClellen Kerr Navigational system and the Port of Catoosa.

The last time I looked, the sign said 'Oklahoma River'.

[Snowman]

Maybe because other cities have an actual RIVER!?!?!?!?! The North Canadian is a creek, not a river, regardless of what we call it. Heck, we don't really even have real rivers in OK. When was the last time you saw the Arkansas with more than sandbars in it either.

That's a MAJOR difference in everything about the river. If we did have a real honest to goodness river, we'd have a totally different perspecitve on what it could be. But, it's a flood device with a couple dams on it. It's allowed it to transform into something we can play on, but that's about it. It was never done with the intention creating an ecosystem in a traditional river sense. It's actually doing exactlly what it's intent was. Personally, i think it's been great. The only races we had on it before were lawnmower and ATV.

Their are not actual standards on what a river is; streams, creaks tributaries can legitimately be called rivers. If you look at many other large cities their rivers have been turned into just as much a flood control device as ours and have some to all the same issues we do to varying degrees. Probably our largest issue with it being a sustainable environment was when the channelized it it was ridiculously over proportioned to how much intake it has normally. In the city it is around five times as wide and four times as deep as upstream of the city. Don't get me wrong their are other things, but many of the other issues were moot points for decades.

[BoulderSooner]

pretty good update to the "master plan" on agenda for the river trust meeting

[Pete]

They will be installing this sculpture (originally planned for Bicentennial Park) in the parking area:

[Rover]

Seriously? Seems like less a fit here than downtown in the arts district. What precipitated the change of venue?

[lasomeday]

Maybe because other cities have an actual RIVER!?!?!?!?! The North Canadian is a creek, not a river, regardless of what we call it. Heck, we don't really even have real rivers in OK. When was the last time you saw the Arkansas with more than sandbars in it either.

That's a MAJOR difference in everything about the river. If we did have a real honest to goodness river, we'd have a totally different perspecitve on what it could be. But, it's a flood device with a couple dams on it. It's allowed it to transform into something we can play on, but that's about it. It was never done with the intention creating an ecosystem in a traditional river sense. It's actually doing exactlly what it's intent was. Personally, i think it's been great. The only races we had on it before were lawnmower and ATV.

Did you not look at my link about the Los Angeles River? That pretty much says everything. It shows a river that was a concrete channel being turned into ecosystems, public pavilions, parks, and trails, but it also adapts during times of floods. This project could easily be adapted to the Oklahoma river to bring ecological cleansing properties and public venues to the river to make it more of a community place instead of an event place. Place making is very important in creating/enhancing communities. These public venues that make going to the river more accessible to regular Joes will also create more development. People will want to live by a river that is natural and has places to congregate and interact with the water.

Here is a glance at what has been designed for the LA River. This project is on hold because of the California government being bankrupt.

http://www.wenkla.com/portfolio/item...mId/12/view/1/

[bombermwc]

Bellaboo - yes, i've driven through Tulsa many a time through my life. The Arkansas is navigable by low keel barges...not boats....at least that far north. The port of Catoosa isn't exactlly a big deal. Do you go down the Mississipi, the Missouri, the Colorado, Mobile, etc. Those are rivers. We have a creek.

lasomeday, yeah that' would be nice. But isn't that exactlly what we're doing with the new park butting up to the river, and boathouse row using BOTH sides of the river in the future? But that's a project coming up almost 100 years after the thing was built. Just go do a google search for LA River and you'll see how we're NOT talking about the same thing here. For one thing, the LA river is all concrete and runs through a much more urban (ie absolutely no grass) area when flowing through LA. It's meant to channel water much like the North Canadian...oh 'scuse me, Oklahoma River. But there are major difference between the two. Again, i'll say if you're paying attention to the masterplan of the Oklahoma River, then i think you'd drop your argument.

[Bellaboo]

Bellaboo - yes, i've driven through Tulsa many a time through my life. The Arkansas is navigable by low keel barges...not boats....at least that far north. The port of Catoosa isn't exactlly a big deal. Do you go down the Mississipi, the Missouri, the Colorado, Mobile, etc. Those are rivers. We have a creek.

bomber,

You've obviously never been over the McClennen/Kerr navigational system about 140 miles East of here on I-40. That's as big as the Mississippi, bigger than the Colorado and very navigatable by OCEAN going boats. I say that because a few years ago, a big deal was made by a ship that was bringing electric motors to the Port of Catoosa from Germany. Not a big ship, but a ship that traversed the Atlantic to come to Oklahoma.
I've seen rivers too. In the past year and a half, I've been in 12 different countries and on some of the most famous rivers in those countries, including the Neva River in St. Petersburg Russia and the Tiber in Rome. If you drive through Austin Texas, you cross over a beautiful body of water, the Colorado River (not to be confused with the Colorado river that headwaters in Rocky Mountain National Park and dumps into the Gulf of California, Mexico). It is actually a dammed up river no larger than the Oklahoma River coming from Lake Travis. They call them lakes, but they are no different then what we have here, other than much more vegitation.
You might need to get out a little bit more...............

[Maynard]

bomber,

You've obviously never been over the McClennen/Kerr navigational system about 140 miles East of here on I-40. That's as big as the Mississippi, bigger than the Colorado and very navigatable by OCEAN going boats. I say that because a few years ago, a big deal was made by a ship that was bringing electric motors to the Port of Catoosa from Germany. Not a big ship, but a ship that traversed the Atlantic to come to Oklahoma.
---
---
---
---
---
---
---

Waterway Dedicated by President 40 Years Ago

---
---
---
But on June 5, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon arrived at the brand new Tulsa Port of Catoosa to usher in a new era - one that brought international waterway commerce to the formerly landlocked state of Oklahoma.
The Port now averages two million tons of cargo a year, and has not only created millions of dollars in revenue for the businesses located on its banks, but thousands of jobs. It is a vital component in this region’s economy.
---
---
---

[OKCisOK4me]

bomber,

You've obviously never been over the McClennen/Kerr navigational system about 140 miles East of here on I-40. That's as big as the Mississippi, bigger than the Colorado and very navigatable by OCEAN going boats. I say that because a few years ago, a big deal was made by a ship that was bringing electric motors to the Port of Catoosa from Germany. Not a big ship, but a ship that traversed the Atlantic to come to Oklahoma.
I've seen rivers too. In the past year and a half, I've been in 12 different countries and on some of the most famous rivers in those countries, including the Neva River in St. Petersburg Russia and the Tiber in Rome. If you drive through Austin Texas, you cross over a beautiful body of water, the Colorado River (not to be confused with the Colorado river that headwaters in Rocky Mountain National Park and dumps into the Gulf of California, Mexico). It is actually a dammed up river no larger than the Oklahoma River coming from Lake Travis. They call them lakes, but they are no different then what we have here, other than much more vegitation.
You might need to get out a little bit more...............

You're smoking crack if you think the river I-40 goes over is as big as the Mississippi! LMAO...

[Pete]

Seems like less a fit here than downtown in the arts district. What precipitated the change of venue?

They are re-doing Bicentennial Park as part of Project 180 and the sculpture no longer fits into the plans.

It's a gift to the city from Leadership OKC.

[Bellaboo]

You're smoking crack if you think the river I-40 goes over is as big as the Mississippi! LMAO...

No i'm not, don't you remember the barge that took out the i-40 bridge that several people died from ? I'm not talking about the i-40 over the North Canadian river arm at Lake Eufaula, what i'm talking about is actually more like a lake on the navigational system. If I knew how to post a pic here i'd google map it and post.

I-40 crosses below the dam for Webbers Falls Reservoir and above Robert S Kerr. It may not be quite as wide as the Mississippi, but it's deeper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster

Just north of St Paul, you can 'wade the Mississippi' from one side to the other. LMAO

[OKCisOK4me]

No i'm not, don't you remember the barge that took out the i-40 bridge that several people died from ? I'm not talking about the i-40 over the North Canadian river arm at Lake Eufaula, what i'm talking about is actually more like a lake on the navigational system. If I knew how to post a pic here i'd google map it and post.

I-40 crosses below the dam for Webbers Falls Reservoir and above Robert S Kerr. It may not be quite as wide as the Mississippi, but it's deeper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster

Just north of St Paul, you can 'wade the Mississippi' from one side to the other. LMAO

Dude, you can do that on any river...it's called the headwaters! I'm well aware of where you're talking about...because that's where I was talking about. At its widest point, the Mississippi is nearly 3 miles wide:

Widest Width of the Mississippi

And on average is approximately 1 mile wide:

Average Width

Whereas our little Kerr-McClellan Navigational Channel to a point just north and west of Muskogee, where it veers off to the north of the Arkansas River (which, BTW, is dammed up near downtown Tulsa, where at the old train bridge, from that point downstream, it is mostly sandbars and water the rest of the way til it merges with the Channel) is approximately 2,000 feet across on average.

If my memory serves me correct, that is less than half the average width of the Mississippi River...

THAT is what I was referring to. Thank you & you're still smoking crack!

[Bellaboo]

I'm not smoking crack, but the point I was making is that it (M/Kerr Nav) is big enough for commercial barge and boat traffic, go read the whole post and you'll understand where i was coming from. And yes i've crossed the Mississippi probably at 7 or 8 locations, and at times you can see mud bars in it too. Do you remember about 30 years or so ago when they were begging Chicago to open the locks to send water to the Mississippi because barge traffic had to be shut down due to water levels ?

The wiki page said the I-40 bridge sections that fell were 580 ft.....not sure if that is correct, but it is still high and wide at that point south of Webbers falls.

[OKCisOK4me]

I'm only 33 so my memory is a little fuzzy on that one, lol.

All I'm saying that is as far as volume of water goes and widths and depths, for the most part, you'd have to be smoking crack if you thought the M/K NC was as big as the Mississippi...

[Bellaboo]

Yep I understand what you're saying, and at Vicksburg Ms the river may be a half mile wide at that point.......so it varies.....and M /K is not as big as the mighty Mississip, but it has the same purpose.....and the Arkansas River at that point really is a river, in consideration of the debate with bomber.