Panasonic Battery Plant

[chssooner]

Not only is there doubt, it's simply false that EV demand is falling.



https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-in...2023-ev-sales/

I think it is more that EV demand isn't increasing at the rate it was projected to even 3 years ago. Not falling. That would be incorrect.

[fortpatches]

I think it is more that EV demand isn't increasing at the rate it was projected to even 3 years ago. Not falling. That would be incorrect.

Seems like we are about on target, maybe a little above the projected EV market share from three years ago.


2023-12-20 09_17_53-Electric vehicle trends _ Deloitte Insights - Work - Microsoft​ Edge.jpg
Electric Vehicle Sales and Market Share (US - Updated Monthly) - CarEdge

[shavethewhales]

EV demand is absolutely falling at the moment. Plenty of data and company statements support this. https://fortune.com/2023/12/07/elect...e-house-goals/

That being said, there are cycles in the market like any other. Gas will go back up as it always has, charging stations will proliferate, and homes will be built with EV charging in mind. Eventually the things keeping EVs looking difficult to use will fade away and ICE vehicles will start to look like more of a pain with their constant mechanical problems and oil changes.

Not sure if OK will still be in the running for a new EV plant in 10 years when it comes back around, but I do believe the market will bounce back.

[jedicurt]

With Tesla slashing prices more than once in the last year, Ford scaling back, Hertz not buying anymore Teslas is there really any doubt the EV demand is declining in this country? There is a record high of unsold ev inventory on dealer lots as I write this. You don't have to wait, you can see this right now.

except just back in june, panasonic said that they were going to start a bidding process for a 3rd plant. and that bidding process would be finalized in March. they already saw a lot of EV companies were doing when they made that announcement.

[chssooner]

except just back in june, panasonic said that they were going to start a bidding process for a 3rd plant. and that bidding process would be finalized in March. they already saw a lot of EV companies were doing when they made that announcement.

And just 1.5 months ago, they announced they were scaling back expansion plans.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/pana...170739063.html

[jedicurt]

EV demand is absolutely falling at the moment. Plenty of data and company statements support this. https://fortune.com/2023/12/07/elect...e-house-goals/

literally the first paragraph of that article.

Despite new electric vehicle market share and sales hitting a record in the U.S. this year, EV growth is starting to slow and fall short of the auto industry’s lofty ambitions to transition away from combustion engines.

demand increase at a slower rate is a falling rate of increase, but not a fall in demand. the demand is still increasing, just at a slower rate

[TheTravellers]

The Mini Cooper Ev gets around 110-120 miles per full charge from what a salesman told me. I have a Mini (gas) and was pursuing some info while I was getting my oil changed at Jackie Cooper last month. I feel like I drive 120 miles in one day around here when out doing errands, I can’t imagine having to charge it that much. My phone already makes me crazy with its needy battery issues, I def would want that in a car.

It's definitely a car only for city driving. We live around NW 36th/May and I work near Reno/Portland, so it's totally fine for my daily commute and running errands. I just plug it in to my level 2 charger I had installed when I get home.

I needed to go to Tulsa a couple of weeks ago and the Francis chargers at the "oasis"/McD on the turnpike only had 1 working (out of 6) chargers and those are the only chargers actually on the turnpike, so I didn't take a chance since Francis has problems with their app/chargers and there'd be no backup for me to use. Drove to Dallas last year to see Roxy Music and never going to do that again, too much time spent charging and just all-around hassle, so we rented a car to see Peter Gabriel there this year. The MINI has the shortest range of all EVs, I believe, and that's just how it has to be - it's mini in every sense of the word, just not enough room for enough batteries for a longer range (no space for a spare, so they put run-flats on them, for example).

[PhiAlpha]

Yeah, this probably has more to do with EV demand than Oklahoma.

Exactly.

[jedicurt]

And just 1.5 months ago, they announced they were scaling back expansion plans.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/pana...170739063.html

actually it says that it was going to cut back on battery production globally.

announced it's slowing down battery production amid weaker demand for electric vehicles worldwide. Panasonic did note that electric vehicle demand in the US remained steady, highlighting firm sales of EV tax credit-eligible cars.

So Panasonic says that EV demand for those cars that were EV tax credit-eligible remained steady. and those are what the US plants were being built for. for those low end cars that meet that tax credit.

The stock, they're traded in Tokyo, down about 2%. Rachelle, on the back of that, we should point out the CFO did highlight the impact of the IRA, specifically saying that they have seen sort of a ceiling because consumers have been going for the lower end vehicles, which have a higher tax credit there. That's led to concerns about what the demand looks like for the higher end Teslas because those batteries are produced in Japan.

The battery plants that are seeing much lower demand are the ones in Japan.

no where in this article does it talk about expansion plans, or plans to slow those.... only globally to decrease production, and that the US market for lower end vehicles is still steady and strong, and that is what they were building the factories in the US for. So it's still very very possible that they will end up moving more battery manufacturing to the US, to meet that steady demand while closing factories in other parts of the world where demand isn't as great. We don't actually know, only Panasonic does, until they tell us.

[jn1780]

except just back in june, panasonic said that they were going to start a bidding process for a 3rd plant. and that bidding process would be finalized in March. they already saw a lot of EV companies were doing when they made that announcement.

And that's the problem right there. A simple case of supply out pacing demand. It doesn't matter if demand is still increasing if everyone decides to flood the market with more EV's and batteries at the same time. Competition is tougher now.

[Laramie]

Painful gut punch to Oklahoma and the Tulsa Metro area which seemed to be on the verge on phenomenal growth into the next decade.

Pulling for Tulsa to rebound and get better development for its metro area. Look at it this way, may have been a blessing in disguise--much like when OKC lost out to Indianapolis for the United Airlines Maintenance facility--MAPS Capital Improvements idea was created. OKC has been on the move ever since.

[BG918]

Painful gut punch to Oklahoma and the Tulsa Metro area which seemed to be on the verge on phenomenal growth into the next decade.

Pulling for Tulsa to rebound and get better development for its metro area. Look at it this way, may have been a blessing in disguise--much like when OKC lost out to Indianapolis for the United Airlines Maintenance facility--MAPS Capital Improvements idea was created. OKC has been on the move ever since.

Tulsa is in fine shape and doesn't need a mega-factory at MAIP to "rebound". Any new developments there are obviously positive for the NE OK region but in no way is the area dependent on it. If anything new projects at the Port of Inola (like the $1B Enel solar plant) and future projects at Fair Oaks (the Tesla site) will benefit Tulsa directly more than anything at MAIP.

[Jersey Boss]

Painful gut punch to Oklahoma and the Tulsa Metro area which seemed to be on the verge on phenomenal growth into the next decade.

Pulling for Tulsa to rebound and get better development for its metro area. Look at it this way, may have been a blessing in disguise--much like when OKC lost out to Indianapolis for the United Airlines Maintenance facility--MAPS Capital Improvements idea was created. OKC has been on the move ever since.

Tulsa just got an American Airlines maintaince facility expansion that will add 300 positions. Tulsa will be fine and not miss what they never had.

[Laramie]

Tulsa is in fine shape and doesn't need a mega-factory at MAIP to "rebound". Any new developments there are obviously positive for the NE OK region but in no way is the area dependent on it. If anything new projects at the Port of Inola (like the $1B Enel solar plant) and future projects at Fair Oaks (the Tesla site) will benefit Tulsa directly more than anything at MAIP.

Great to hear from someone in Tulsa, you reflect that pride and confidence many Tulsans have.

[Laramie]

Tulsa just got an American Airlines maintaince facility expansion that will add 300 positions. Tulsa will be fine and not miss what they never had.

Heard the news on the AA expansion which will add more good paying jobs to the Tulsa metro area.

[Plutonic Panda]

Tulsa is in fine shape and doesn't need a mega-factory at MAIP to "rebound". Any new developments there are obviously positive for the NE OK region but in no way is the area dependent on it. If anything new projects at the Port of Inola (like the $1B Enel solar plant) and future projects at Fair Oaks (the Tesla site) will benefit Tulsa directly more than anything at MAIP.

Haven’t they consistently been loosing population? Not trying to talk sh!t but Tulsa could use a nice boost. This would’ve it and then some.

Tulsa should also completely rebuild its airport and get international flights. Sorry to say but I recently picked someone up there and to say it was comical is an understatement. Flying into there I’d feel like I’m going to some hick town. They need to completely demolish it and build a new $1 billion+ airport with subterranean LRT connecting to downtown.

[BG918]

Haven’t they consistently been loosing population? Not trying to talk sh!t but Tulsa could use a nice boost. This would’ve it and then some.

Tulsa should also completely rebuild its airport and get international flights. Sorry to say but I recently picked someone up there and to say it was comical is an understatement. Flying into there I’d feel like I’m going to some hick town. They need to completely demolish it and build a new $1 billion+ airport with subterranean LRT connecting to downtown.

? Metro Tulsa has always had steady growth which has increased since 2020.

The airport is never getting fully rebuilt but will continue to see renovations and expansions, including a new international concourse that is starting construction this spring

[Plutonic Panda]

Hadn’t even heard about the international concourse. Good to see that happening.

[chssooner]

Tulsa is going to mess around and get an international flight or 2 before OKC gets one.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City needs to invest more expansion ($250 million) into WRWA and both WRWA and Tulsa International need to work together to bring international flights to our state with the future of an intercontinental flights in the mix.

[Swake]

Haven’t they consistently been loosing population? Not trying to talk sh!t but Tulsa could use a nice boost. This would’ve it and then some.

The city of Tulsa hit an all time peak population in 2020 of 413,066, the 2022 census estimate had the city losing a couple of thousand people to be at 411,867, but again, that's just an estimate. Tulsa's MSA has never lost population and sits at 1,034,123 as of the 2022 estimate.

[Zorba]

Not only is there doubt, it's simply false that EV demand is falling.



https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-in...2023-ev-sales/

Yup, demand isn't falling. The rate of demand increase is falling. Just like when the government "cuts" the budget by decreasing the rate of budget increase in the future.

I just got a Bolt EUV a month ago and it was a major PITA, they are pretty much all sold months before they enter production. The real issue is only so many people want to spend 50-100K on a car, and way to many EVs are in that price bracket. The cheaper ones aren't haven't issues.

[Zorba]

Haven’t they consistently been loosing population? Not trying to talk sh!t but Tulsa could use a nice boost. This would’ve it and then some.

Tulsa should also completely rebuild its airport and get international flights. Sorry to say but I recently picked someone up there and to say it was comical is an understatement. Flying into there I’d feel like I’m going to some hick town. They need to completely demolish it and build a new $1 billion+ airport with subterranean LRT connecting to downtown.

TUL is just fine. There is really nothing about it that makes it worse than OKC. It's no DFW, obviously, but for TUL size market it is just fine. When I lived in Tulsa I used to fly out of it 45-55 times a year, there are a lot of worse airports.

[Plutonic Panda]

I disagree. OKC is much more modern and not as cramped.

[rte66man]

Tulsa should also completely rebuild its airport and get international flights ... and build a new $1 billion+ airport with subterranean LRT connecting to downtown.

Ah PluPan, your dreams are always good for amusement.