Electric Vehicles

[Rover]

Virtually everyone I know who bought an EV either have already, or would buy another one. But none of them bought them for long haul trips and they all know how to manage their charging requirements. None treat them like gas powered vehicles and wait till empty to pull into a service station they find on every corner.

Btw, I know lots of owners of gas powered vehicles who at one time or another has run out of gas.

[Plutonic Panda]

Did you just spend at least $140,000 on two (?!) EVs without a plan for use or a basic understanding of different levels of charging?

I got the Mach E used from enterprise. Basic package no extended range and not the GT. I didn’t understand how long it’d take to charge. Tesla charges much faster but I like the Mustang better. You can find faster chargers for the Mustang but they’re few and far between even in LA. Supposedly Tesla will allow access to their superchargers in March of 2024 for Ford. I got them because I rented a Kona and I liked it. Hyundai however won’t get access to the supercharger network until 2025.

[Plutonic Panda]

Virtually everyone I know who bought an EV either have already, or would buy another one. But none of them bought them for long haul trips and they all know how to manage their charging requirements. None treat them like gas powered vehicles and wait till empty to pull into a service station they find on every corner.

Btw, I know lots of owners of gas powered vehicles who at one time or another has run out of gas.

It’s a great car. I was just thrown off by the charging crap. Some of the chargers turn off after 60 minutes. I slept in my car at the Beverly Hills library parking last night to let it charge. I’m heading to Oklahoma tomorow with the Mustang and I have no clue how that will go as it’ll be cold and I’ll be traversing mountain passes which will surely impact range.

They have a lot potential but still have some ways to go before they become really practical IMO. City driving is great. I have to pay a deposit to install a charger at my apartment garage which I’ll get back when I leave. The reason being they want it uninstalled when I leave which is kinda weird but I get it.

[Jeremy Martin]

Taking the MachE cross country, you are a brave man.
I think I would have taken the Tesla just because the charging network is better.

[Plutonic Panda]

Taking the MachE cross country, you are a brave man.
I think I would have taken the Tesla just because the charging network is better.

Is there anyone that could recommend particular EV charging brands. Electricity America, EV Go, and Charge Point are the ones I’m familiar with.

Travellers, do you have a preferred charging network? I really want the Cybertruck or the Hummer but I can’t afford it.

[TheTravellers]

Is there anyone that could recommend particular EV charging brands. Electricity America, EV Go, and Charge Point are the ones I’m familiar with.

Travellers, do you have a preferred charging network? I really want the Cybertruck or the Hummer but I can’t afford it.

My preferred charger is the level 2 one in my garage. Public charging is f***ed up - you should never need an app, stored payment method, have to tell the app what kind of car you have, etc. All you should ever need is a charger, a debit/credit card, and your car - it needs to be as easy as pumping gas!!!!!!!!!

I've used ChargePoint just as a test at the Oncue at 36th/May, and it seems OK. EA I've used only on the way to/from Dallas in a Walmart parking lot and it worked fine (and it was free!), and Francis is the one you'll commonly see here in OK, most likely. Francis had some problems initially, but they switched to a different app platform and it *seems* to work fine if you have one of their RFID cards. Problem is that their chargers aren't terribly reliable - I've had some stop charging after 10 min or so, some just are out of order (5 out of the 6 at the Turner Turnpike halfway point were broken a few weeks ago), but if you can find a working one, have their app and an RFID card from them, it should work pretty well.

No idea why your charging has taken so long, mine will go from 10% to 90% in probably 45 minutes, and larger batteries shouldn't take much longer than that because they can handle a higher charging speed (my MINI can only handle up to 50kwh, whereas Teslas (and others, I think) can go all the way up to 300kwh or higher). There are adapters that can convert a Tesla charger to a other types of ports and vice versa, so that can help with charger availability.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ well now I’ve been using electrify America and it charges faster now around 36-80kw depending on the situation. I think it is LA having so many electric cars and every station is so backed up. I’m here on Christmas night at 10:00pm in Bank of America parking lot and there’s four chargers(I’m using one of them) and there’s around 10 other cars waiting.

I completely agree with you there needs to be a universal system where you pull up and charge just the same as you would any gas station.

Now there’s tons of charging places around LA, for example the Beverly Hills city hall complex has free charging and there’s other chargers at Public malls and strip malls parking lots, LA is installing chargers at spots where there are light poles. But they are usually super slow. The Ultra fast DC chargers or whatever they’re technically called are few and far between and are usually backed up.

Then I’ve noticed there’s a problem of people parking ICE cars in EV parking spots. I never did this before but I didn’t know how big of a problem it is until I got my EV car. Now it infuriates me and I wish they’d tow those cars.

I’m going to purchase an electrify America charger it’s a level 2. It costs $650. Is there anything you’d recommend over that? I don’t know the install costs or what my apartment will charge me yet.

[TheTravellers]

^^^ well now I’ve been using electrify America and it charges faster now around 36-80kw depending on the situation. I think it is LA having so many electric cars and every station is so backed up. I’m here on Christmas night at 10:00pm in Bank of America parking lot and there’s four chargers(I’m using one of them) and there’s around 10 other cars waiting.

I completely agree with you there needs to be a universal system where you pull up and charge just the same as you would any gas station.

Now there’s tons of charging places around LA, for example the Beverly Hills city hall complex has free charging and there’s other chargers at Public malls and strip malls parking lots, LA is installing chargers at spots where there are light poles. But they are usually super slow. The Ultra fast DC chargers or whatever they’re technically called are few and far between and are usually backed up.

Then I’ve noticed there’s a problem of people parking ICE cars in EV parking spots. I never did this before but I didn’t know how big of a problem it is until I got my EV car. Now it infuriates me and I wish they’d tow those cars.

I’m going to purchase an electrify America charger it’s a level 2. It costs $650. Is there anything you’d recommend over that? I don’t know the install costs or what my apartment will charge me yet.

This is the charger I got, seemed to be the best for the price for my use, but I'm sure an EA charger will be just as good, if not better. Electrician costs were about $300, I think, and it's just hanging on the wall since it's not a hard-wired unit, so unit installation cost was a nail and 1 minute of my time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

[April in the Plaza]

All right, I just bought a Tesla model s plaid and a mach e and I can now say electric cars f@cking suck unless you’re strictly driving them in the city. Other than that they’re a scam.

Yea, the market tends to agree with you.

Definitely a great time to acquire or lease an EV, assuming you’re cool with their significant limitations.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is the charger I got, seemed to be the best for the price for my use, but I'm sure an EA charger will be just as good, if not better. Electrician costs were about $300, I think, and it's just hanging on the wall since it's not a hard-wired unit, so unit installation cost was a nail and 1 minute of my time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

Does your mini have one pedal drive? I knew teslas did and the Tesla is much more aggressive in braking than the Mustang but I have gotten used to it.

[TheTravellers]

Does your mini have one pedal drive? I knew teslas did and the Tesla is much more aggressive in braking than the Mustang but I have gotten used to it.

Yep, and there's a switch (one thing I love about the MINI is that so much of its operations are toggle switches and dials, very old school) to go between high and low regen braking. I test drove an i3 to make sure I was OK with it before I ordered my MINI, and I *love* one-pedal driving, I always have it on high because I'm used to it, but that freaked my wife out, so she did low and is better with that setting.

[April in the Plaza]

Why are used Polestar 2’s so cheap? They are heavily discounted imo.

[CaptDave]

Why are used Polestar 2’s so cheap? They are heavily discounted imo.

Likely because Polestar updated the 2024 models and they are drastically improved. The two wheel drive models are now rear wheel drive instead of front wheel drive which fundamentally changed the driving dynamics for the better. Also, I think the battery in the base models are larger now.

[Pete]

Shares in Tesla plunged as much as 11% after the market opened Thursday, wiping $73 billion off the company’s market value hours after it warned of slowing growth in electric car sales and an existential threat from Chinese rivals.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25/inves...les/index.html

[_Cramer_]

Anyone know if production has truly started?

Saw this making the rounds on the Lt. Gov. feed and local news yesterday: https://www.press.canoo.com/press-re...ctric-vehicles

[Pete]

I hate to say this about the future of automobiles, but it's been pretty clear for a while that with EVs, it's more about software and electronics than manufacturing and as things stand now, I believe there is going to be a strong shift to products from Asia (particularly China, Korea and Vietnam) vs. Europe and North America.

It's already happening, it's just that the U.S. is going to be about the last place to replace most vehicles with EVs. Already a big deal in Asia and Europe is also moving much faster, so EV makers (popping up everywhere) will continue developing and targeting those markets while we generally sit on the sidelines, just like the last revolution in cars that started in the 70s and caused the Big 3 to totally get their butts handed to them once this country finally allowed a decent amount of imports.

Most of us won't live long enough to see this seismic change fully play out, but if you follow this industry as I have for over 50 years, the handwriting on the wall couldn't be more clear.

[jccouger]

I hate to say this about the future of automobiles, but it's been pretty clear for a while that with EVs, it's more about software and electronics than manufacturing and as things stand now, I believe there is going to be a strong shift to products from Asia (particularly China, Korea and Vietnam) vs. Europe and North America.

It's already happening, it's just that the U.S. is going to be about the last place to replace most vehicles with EVs. Already a big deal in Asia and Europe is also moving much faster, so EV makers (popping up everywhere) will continue developing and targeting those markets while we generally sit on the sidelines, just like the last revolution in cars that started in the 70s and caused the Big 3 to totally get their butts handed to them once this country finally allowed a decent amount of imports.

Most of us won't live long enough to see this seismic change fully play out, but if you follow this industry as I have for over 50 years, the handwriting on the wall couldn't be more clear.

Yup, and short term profit driven decisions made my our legacy automakers to satisfy shareholders and CEOs who only personally benefit on the short term are backing away from making substantial investments in electrification and it will set them even farther behind. Demand for electric vehicles still represents just a fraction of the overall auto market in the US but that won't be the case long term. Tesla, Chinese & Korean auto manufacturers will dominate the market.

[Teo9969]

I hate to say this about the future of automobiles, but it's been pretty clear for a while that with EVs, it's more about software and electronics than manufacturing and as things stand now, I believe there is going to be a strong shift to products from Asia (particularly China, Korea and Vietnam) vs. Europe and North America.

It's already happening, it's just that the U.S. is going to be about the last place to replace most vehicles with EVs. Already a big deal in Asia and Europe is also moving much faster, so EV makers (popping up everywhere) will continue developing and targeting those markets while we generally sit on the sidelines, just like the last revolution in cars that started in the 70s and caused the Big 3 to totally get their butts handed to them once this country finally allowed a decent amount of imports.

Most of us won't live long enough to see this seismic change fully play out, but if you follow this industry as I have for over 50 years, the handwriting on the wall couldn't be more clear.

If it's really going to be all about Tech, isn't the obvious play for one of the top automakers to make a major partnership with (if not outright get bought out by) Apple and/or Windows (assuming they don't figure it out on their own)? The degree to which you can create your whole life around a singular digital platform will continue to be the direction that things go, I think. So Apple and Windows will have to try and "dominate" the auto landscape.

Also, I think whichever countries win the battery game first will have a major impact on where they land in the pecking order. First manufacturers that can find their way to being 500 mile cars from 0 degrees to 100 degrees with 30 thousand miles on the battery are going to have a massive leg up. Hopefully some US companies are in that mix.

[soonergolfer]

If it's really going to be all about Tech, isn't the obvious play for one of the top automakers to make a major partnership with (if not outright get bought out by) Apple and/or Windows (assuming they don't figure it out on their own)? The degree to which you can create your whole life around a singular digital platform will continue to be the direction that things go, I think. So Apple and Windows will have to try and "dominate" the auto landscape.

Also, I think whichever countries win the battery game first will have a major impact on where they land in the pecking order. First manufacturers that can find their way to being 500 mile cars from 0 degrees to 100 degrees with 30 thousand miles on the battery are going to have a massive leg up. Hopefully some US companies are in that mix.

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

[Scott5114]

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

The world's largest lithium deposit is in northern Nevada. The tourism/gambling stuff is what most people think of first, but mining has been huge in Nevada going back to statehood, so they have the expertise available in state to get at it.

There are challenges for sure (like making sure there's enough water to go around) but I wouldn't bet against Reno becoming the next American boomtown. Tesla already has facilities in the area (although I believe they were there before the lithium was discovered and that's really just a happy accident for Musk).

[jn1780]

If it's really going to be all about Tech, isn't the obvious play for one of the top automakers to make a major partnership with (if not outright get bought out by) Apple and/or Windows (assuming they don't figure it out on their own)? The degree to which you can create your whole life around a singular digital platform will continue to be the direction that things go, I think. So Apple and Windows will have to try and "dominate" the auto landscape.

Also, I think whichever countries win the battery game first will have a major impact on where they land in the pecking order. First manufacturers that can find their way to being 500 mile cars from 0 degrees to 100 degrees with 30 thousand miles on the battery are going to have a massive leg up. Hopefully some US companies are in that mix.

Yeah, I would say its more about the battery engineering vs the software.

[Mesta Parker]

The world's largest lithium deposit is in northern Nevada. The tourism/gambling stuff is what most people think of first, but mining has been huge in Nevada going back to statehood, so they have the expertise available in state to get at it.

There are challenges for sure (like making sure there's enough water to go around) but I wouldn't bet against Reno becoming the next American boomtown. Tesla already has facilities in the area (although I believe they were there before the lithium was discovered and that's really just a happy accident for Musk).

Assuming the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals does not rule in favor of tribes suing to stop the project.

https://apnews.com/article/lithium-m...4e3f8e10445143

[PhiAlpha]

Honest question, how do you as a country win the battery game when China owns the field, ball, players and the commissioner? They own all the mining in the Africa , South American, Asian critical elements mines, essentially slave labor. They are the only country to manufacture and process the cobalt and minerals to process it into batteries.

The federal government has to start loosening restrictions on domestic mining (or at least stop blocking projects) so we can find and develop our own resources so that we aren't solely reliant on China. I could pull up 2 or 3 articles right now of the current administration restricting or prohibiting the development of known deposits of lithium and other materials needed for battery manufacturing. People are unfortunately beginning to realize that, similar to oil and gas, there are environmental impacts associated with the mining/production/refining of minerals required for batteries. It's all fun and games when the mining is overseas but people start getting upset the second we start trying to develop our own resources.There are pros and cons with all energy sources and the sooner people start accepting that, the easier it will be to continue the transition to electric vehicles. If we are serious about fully transitioning to electric vehicles, I don't think relying solely on China for batteries or raw materials is sustainable long term, especially with the growing geopolitical issues there.

[PhiAlpha]

Assuming the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals does not rule in favor of tribes suing to stop the project.

https://apnews.com/article/lithium-m...4e3f8e10445143

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction there. This is near one of the situations I was referring to. The Biden administration used the 1906 antiquities act to almost completely block development in a 506,814 acre area (that's 2/3rds the size of Rhode Island) between Nevada, Arizona, and California without much evidence or research to back up that decision. Can't unilaterally decide to lock up a huge swath some of our potential reserves and at the same time expect a mass transition to occur, especially when there is already regulatory framework in place to ensure that historic/archeological sites are not developed if discovered in an area. Hopefully they do not rule in favor of the tribes.

[jn1780]

The federal government has to start loosening restrictions on domestic mining (or at least stop blocking projects) so we can find and develop our own resources so that we aren't solely reliant on China. I could pull up 2 or 3 articles right now of the current administration restricting or prohibiting the development of known deposits of lithium and other materials needed for battery manufacturing. People are unfortunately beginning to realize that, similar to oil and gas, there are environmental impacts associated with the mining/production/refining of minerals required for batteries. It's all fun and games when the mining is overseas but people start getting upset the second we start trying to develop our own resources.There are pros and cons with all energy sources and the sooner people start accepting that, the easier it will be to continue the transition to electric vehicles. If we are serious about fully transitioning to electric vehicles, I don't think relying solely on China for batteries or raw materials is sustainable long term, especially with the growing geopolitical issues there.

Same with nuclear plants. We don't have to build the 'Scary" ones from the 1970's, but its hard to get any traction when people hear nuke and run in fear. That lithium mining facility in Nevada needs water from somewhere and that is a state where water is already hard to come by. Need desalination plants, which take a ton of raw energy.