Alley's End (4th & EK Gaylord)

[Lafferty Daniel]

There has been one at SW 104th and May for awhile now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3622...!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Lol duh. I was thinking NW 104th and May. Thanks

[BDP]

I guess you are talking about the incentives given to a very few retailers to stimulate retail in strategic retail deserts, huh? Not sure that affects most local boutiques, general merchandise and specialty stores.

It's not isolated to OKC or to "strategic retail deserts" (I'm assuming you meant those as two different things). I guess perspective dictates whether one thinks it's only been given to "very few retailers", but it is almost always given to the ones who actually need the incentives the least from an operational stand point.

It does affect those type of stores you mentioned. Sometimes it's just a matter of traffic, but it's mainly consumer budgetary considerations and opportunity costs.

I was speaking more in general and historically. It's a decades old practice and denying that it has affected stores that do not get government assistance is to deny the history of the retail sector and the changes in landscape it has caused. If you want to argue that you think those changes are good and warrants each departure from from market fundamentals, feel free. But let's not deny what it is, why it happens, and who it affects, both positively and negatively.

[BDP]

Free enterprise Darwinism

Government Incentives are not free enterprise.

You can argue in favor of them, but it is actually the exact opposite of free enterprise.

[HOT ROD]

topic?

[BDP]

4th & EK Gaylord

[Rover]

Government Incentives are not free enterprise.

You can argue in favor of them, but it is actually the exact opposite of free enterprise.

You can also argue we don’t have “free enterprise” because we have all sorts of laws governing trade at all levels. We have various taxes. All sorts of things affect unfettered trade. It’s like saying we aren’t a democracy because it isn’t a pure democracy because we make all kinds of rules affecting voting and we don’t vote on everything directly. We could even be called a socialist country because we have certain entitlements. No economic or economic system is PURE anything. Pure dogma doesn’t work.

[Pete]

^

Big difference when the government actually writes a check or gives a rebate to a specific business when they have direct competitors who do not get the same.

[Rover]

^

Big difference when the government actually writes a check or gives a rebate to a specific business when they have direct competitors who do not get the same.

Not really, when they apply tariffs or targeted taxes. Same sort of protectionism, just at different levels. And, there are lots of tax incentives given to different types of property investors. The government picks winners and losers all the time. I do work applying tax incentives to certain commercial property owners.... there are different treatments. These just happen to be local and visible and easy targets. Most people have no idea of who gets what incentives and breaks. If they actually knew, they might just vote in different representation.

[Pete]

Not really, when they apply tariffs or targeted taxes. Same sort of protectionism, just at different levels. And, there are lots of tax incentives given to different types of property investors. The government picks winners and losers all the time. I do work applying tax incentives to certain commercial property owners.... there are different treatments. These just happen to be local and visible and easy targets. Most people have no idea of who gets what incentives and breaks. If they actually knew, they might just vote in different representation.

Not at all the same thing. There are laws/regulations that affect all owners of properties and all members of a certain industry.

Then there are incentives paid directly in the form of a check to an individual business and not to their direct competitors. Those are the 'incentives' being discussed here.

[Rover]

Not at all the same thing. There are laws/regulations that affect all owners of properties and all members of a certain industry.

Then there are incentives paid directly in the form of a check to an individual business and not to their direct competitors. Those are the 'incentives' being discussed here.

The response was regarding what constitutes “free enterprise “ and the purity of that description. The point is that we don’t have pure free enterprise anywhere. The government uses many tools that give investors and businesses direct and indirect benefits that affect all sorts of strategies and plans. You point out direct incentives, but those aren’t the only things affecting business decisions.

[BDP]

You can also argue we don’t have “free enterprise” because we have all sorts of laws governing trade at all levels. We have various taxes. All sorts of things affect unfettered trade. It’s like saying we aren’t a democracy because it isn’t a pure democracy because we make all kinds of rules affecting voting and we don’t vote on everything directly. We could even be called a socialist country because we have certain entitlements. No economic or economic system is PURE anything. Pure dogma doesn’t work.

Exactly! Well put (especially that last bit.)

Of course, many people have different ideas about what the definition of "works" is in the first place. Beyond that, it becomes an ideological discussion of how and how much the government should help it "work".

[Pete]

City set to award developer rights to key downtown parcel


The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority is set to sell a highly-visible tract of downtown land to a local developer.

[prbreak][/prbreak]

After issuing a request for proposal for 4.4 acres at NW 4th and E.K. Gaylord Boulevard, the city agency received two submissions and has selected Alley's End as the preferred development.

The project would include three five-story buildings with 278 apartments, structured parking and ground-floor retail space.

128 units would be designated affordable housing, which would be leased at 60% or below average market rent.

The selected group, Rose Rock Development, has also chosen by the city to develop a mixed-use complex just south of Chesapeake Arena named Boulevard Place, which should be starting work later this year.

Rose Rock describes Alley's End as a 'sustainable artist development that will promote the pedestrian experience with plazas and urban canyons with incorporating micro-retail and dense residential'.

Architects are FSB.

The authority will formally vote on March 18th and city council will have final approval.

[king183]

What are the chances this actually gets built in the next 5 years, given the impending economic recession? I hope we’re not going to see so much economic damage that this pauses our big developments for several years, such as Wheeler, the development to take the place of the old Goodwill building, the above proposal by Round Rock, and more.

[Pete]

^

IMO, it all depends on the duration of this almost near shutdown.

If this lasts more than 2 months, all bets are off.

[jccouger]

The Venereal Disease buildings

[SagerMichael]

The Venereal Disease buildings

Right across the street from the OKC ring.... nice

[Colbafone]

With any luck, this place will house our first downtown sex shop as well.

[Pete]

Some newish renderings:

[Anonymous.]

Needs a rooftop pool. Amenities sell downtown residential.

[amaesquire]

Needs a rooftop pool. Amenities sell downtown residential.

Agreed. No pool seems like a mistake.

[OKCisOK4me]

It makes sense that this will be right across from the OKC ring...

[AlvarezK]

Any updates Pete?

[Pete]

This is still moving forward, will just take time.

They are finalizing their agreement with the city.

I would expect work to start in the middle of next year.

[ChrisHayes]

This is still moving forward, will just take time.

They are finalizing their agreement with the city.

I would expect work to start in the middle of next year.

Good to hear! I was afraid the coronavirus "pandemic" might have wiped this project out. Between this and the apartments being built at 4th and Shartel, there's not only going to be many hundreds more living units, but much needed infill at two high profile intersections.

[Anonymous.]

I couldn't find the original thread... But does anyone know who to contact to get the cOKC ring across the street from this lit back up? It hasn't been lit up since Spring. I miss the memes.