Holiday Inn Express

[UnFrSaKn]

Past two weeks:

November 13
https://www.flickr.com/photos/willia...7649063116749/

November 25 (same as above)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/willia...7647145852284/

[Spartan]

This project is turning out pretty nice

[soonerguru]

This is the best hotel project from an esthetic standpoint in Bricktown. Unheralded but quality design and construction.

[HOT ROD]

i like it but almost wish the windows were bigger; giving it a more warehouse look/feel. But it did turn out to be a great project.

[Rover]

Architects have to love designing for Bricktown. The least imagininative you make it the more we love it. This indeed looks like a warehouse. You don't have to really design anything, just use lots of brick and simple brickwork.

This is great inexpensive infill, but not great architecture by any means. Sometimes I think we just like things that aren't obviously horrible.

[BDP]

Architects have to love designing for Bricktown. The least imagininative you make it the more we love it. This indeed looks like a warehouse. You don't have to really design anything, just use lots of brick and simple brickwork.

Even then, some developers don't even want to do that.

[hoya]

Architects have to love designing for Bricktown. The least imagininative you make it the more we love it. This indeed looks like a warehouse. You don't have to really design anything, just use lots of brick and simple brickwork.

This is great inexpensive infill, but not great architecture by any means. Sometimes I think we just like things that aren't obviously horrible.

Bricktown isn't really about great architecture. It's about old brick warehouses.

[Just the facts]

Bricktown isn't really about great architecture. It's about old brick warehouses.

...and good urbanism. Honestly, I think good urbanism is what most historic preservationist are trying to preserve. Good urbanism doesn't have to be good architecture, which is probably why so many architects hate urbanism.

[Spartan]

Architects have to love designing for Bricktown. The least imagininative you make it the more we love it. This indeed looks like a warehouse. You don't have to really design anything, just use lots of brick and simple brickwork.

This is great inexpensive infill, but not great architecture by any means. Sometimes I think we just like things that aren't obviously horrible.

Well I agree from experience that in designing something busier, like with the Staybridge or the Green Turret Hotel by Bass Pro, the designer will be spending a lot more time in AutoCAD and Rhino.

Less is more - SIMPLE is almost always going to turn out better in an urban setting. That said, I agree that larger windows (maybe even casements) would have been a homerun here. I suspect that would have added significant costs to the project (standard windows with brick veneer as opposed to special windows with reinforced mullions or something to support the front facade)

[Rover]

...and good urbanism. Honestly, I think good urbanism is what most historic preservationist are trying to preserve. Good urbanism doesn't have to be good architecture, which is probably why so many architects hate urbanism.

This is an absolute cop-out. There doesn't have to be an EITHER urbanism OR good/great architecture. That is lazy. If urbanism is just putting ugly/plain buildings next to the street and throw a couple of storefronts, bars and restaurants in it then that is a really low bar. Urbanism sets the parameters but doesn't prohibit an architect from doing good work. I've seen plenty of old communist developments in East Europe and China. Certainly is high density, lots of pedestrian traffic, very walkable, etc., but utterly depressing environment to live in. It is time for us to expect more than the least.

[Spartan]

First of all, Kerry isn't laying out an absolute ground rule (granted, he should generally stop doing that). But rather he is just musing that while the two aren't mutually exclusive, they can be at odds with each other. I'd call that the Rand Elliott Effect lol. But it doesn't always have to be that way.

Secondly, Eastern Europe does have good urbanism and good architecture. That environment is generally a third historic Hanseatic "old towns," a third community-era stuff, and a third post-modernism. It's really the most underrated part of the world. Hell, they even have a few countries with balanced budgets. In this day and age.

[Just the facts]

I've seen plenty of old communist developments in East Europe and China. Certainly is high density, lots of pedestrian traffic, very walkable, etc., but utterly depressing environment to live in.

Then it isn't good urbanism.

[Rover]

Then it isn't good urbanism.

Exactly. Glad you agree. Ugly basic architecture does NOT make an area more livable. We have to set the bar higher. This project does nothing to set any bar higher. It complies with a basic guideline...it has lots of brick and is non-descript. We argue about an awning or two and then allow an otherwise totally forgettable building to be built because it has a neat entry and is close to the street. UGH.

[HOT ROD]

Exactly. Glad you agree. Ugly basic architecture does NOT make an area more livable. We have to set the bar higher. This project does nothing to set any bar higher. It complies with a basic guideline...it has lots of brick and is non-descript. We argue about an awning or two and then allow an otherwise totally forgettable building to be built because it has a neat entry and is close to the street. UGH.

+1

[hoya]

Exactly. Glad you agree. Ugly basic architecture does NOT make an area more livable. We have to set the bar higher. This project does nothing to set any bar higher. It complies with a basic guideline...it has lots of brick and is non-descript. We argue about an awning or two and then allow an otherwise totally forgettable building to be built because it has a neat entry and is close to the street. UGH.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think we need "forgettable" buildings in this city to add mass and density. Not every building is going to be a work of art, but this building fits in well with the rest of the area and comes right up to the street. The brickwork looks really nice in person, and once it's completed it will be almost indistinguishable from a building that had been here for 70 years.

[Rover]

LOL. MOST of our buildings are forgettable. So now we need MORE?

[Spartan]

We need buildings that work. Vernacular or high-design, far too much of the building stock we have remaining uses non-traditional methods to address the public realm. Sometimes a bad plaza, sometimes a bad green, or a kiss-and-ride drop-off loop, etc.

We don't have too many boxes with windows and doors on the street. That's what is so great here and with the Deep Deuce projects.

Bricktown meanwhile has moved much slower because every project thinks it has to be distinctive, for better or worse. The developer behind Brickopolis way over-thought his development, sought to corner the market on family-friendly distinction, and disregarded the real estate aspects at work. Steelyard is the concept we need to energize mixed-uses in Bricktown, but it too will be over-the-top with garish arches, etc. Excited to see Sheridan finally fill-in, but annoyed that it took a new boutique hotel flag to produce development, which should have happened a decade ago. This Holiday Inn Express is a refreshing project for Bricktown from the standpoint that they just knew what they wanted to do, secured a simple hotel flag, found a great site, hired a good architect and let the design review process work, and then just built it. I think this development team knows what its doing, which is something Bricktown needs.

[Rover]

Would something more interesting like this destroy Bricktown though? I understand this project is "safe".

[Spartan]

I don't think BUDC would allow the EIFS arches and lintels.

[soonerguru]

They could have hammed it up to make it look like the Hampton Inn. Thank God they didn't. It's a nice project.

[Rover]

I don't think BUDC would allow the EIFS arches and lintels.

It doesn't have to be EIFS (and you know how much I hate EIFS). In this case, it looks like it might be stone or contrasting brick. And even if it was EIFS, how is this different than the others they allowed except being at the bottom vs. top. At least the building I showed has some style while still capturing the essence of the neighborhood.

So, basically you are saying the only thing allowed is a warehouse/factory looking structure?

[Rover]

They could have hammed it up to make it look like the Hampton Inn. Thank God they didn't. It's a nice project.

That is the alternative....boring and no style vs. awful and no style? This is what we've come to?

[HOT ROD]

I think for distinctive locations (such as intersections or entrances to districts) that attention to design should be paid for developments. This would go a LONG way toward placemaking and the creation of vibe for the area served. Brickopolis is the perfect location for a memorable, distinctive building given its canal front and OK Ave fronting location; I'd hoped HI could have been a little bit more distinctive as well given its prominent corner (and to me, larger windows would have done it).

We could have forgetable buildings in the mid-blocks or inside a district, but if we had the corners and entrances distinctive then that would make the district as a whole memorable.

[soonerguru]

That is the alternative....boring and no style vs. awful and no style? This is what we've come to?

How is it more boring than the other buildings on that block? It lacks some of the details but fits in nicely. I for one am pleased this developer raised the bar for Bricktown hotel development, whether or not it's an architectural masterpiece.

[Motley]

Maybe if the city had given them more TIF money we could have the tower in Rover's post. it is a handsome building.