Panasonic Battery Plant

[Pete]

I also want to point out that a Panasonic manufacturing plant is in no way an offset to what may happen to our oil & gas industry.

With O&G, those companies are headquartered here and generally owned by Oklahomans. There is a tremendous amount of wealth generated and that all stays in the state. Lots of people on this site work in those businesses and are paid very well. Yes, there are oilfield jobs and related manufacturing but that's hardly an area where the state is lacking for similarly-paid jobs.

A battery plant isn't much different that an Amazon warehouse: generally unskilled labor not requiring any real education and employees are paid accordingly.

Even with Canoo, it will just be assembly in an old road equipment manufacturing building. It's not like either one of these companies is ever going to be headquartered here or that any of their profits will stay in Oklahoma.


For any real counter-balance to what may be a fading O&G industry (and isn't that a big part of the argument for the $1 billion in incentives?), we need to replace those legacy energy companies with alternative energy and EV businesses that actually originate here and stay and grow here. I don't see a single shred of evidence that that is happening and adding a battery factory in Pryor is basically earning some political brownie points and not at all setting the state up for future success.

[Laramie]

[Scott5114]

For any real counter-balance to what may be a fading O&G industry (and isn't that a big part of the argument for the $1 billion in incentives?), we need to replace those legacy energy companies with alternative energy and EV businesses that actually originate here and stay and grow here. I don't see a single shred of evidence that that is happening and adding a battery factory in Pryor is basically earning some political brownie points and not at all setting the state up for future success.

You would think, given that Oklahoma has put all of its chips in the "energy" sector, and the weather here, that OKC should be widely known as a hub in the wind energy industry. That we are not makes me feel like we're squandering an opportunity somewhere along the line.

[Pete]

You would think, given that Oklahoma has put all of its chips in the "energy" sector, and the weather here, that OKC should be widely known as a hub in the wind energy industry. That we are not makes me feel like we're squandering an opportunity somewhere along the line.

We barely even have solar energy. You see much more of it on rooftops (commercial and residential) in states with comparable levels of sunshine.

I believe very strongly that this battery plant deal is just a distraction to make it appear that we are somehow diversifying instead of concentrating on the real growth opportunities which involve more than writing a billion-dollar check.

Is our plan to replace an industry that built beautiful skyscrapers and campuses and filled them with tens of thousands of highly-paid workers with battery factories in Pryor?

Almost every local accumulation of wealth in this state has some tie to oil & gas exploration. You can't replace that with factories owned by out-of-state conglomerates.

[Swake]

I also want to point out that a Panasonic manufacturing plant is in no way an offset to what may happen to our oil & gas industry.

With O&G, those companies are headquartered here and generally owned by Oklahomans. There is a tremendous amount of wealth generated and that all stays in the state. Lots of people on this site work in those businesses and are paid very well. Yes, there are oilfield jobs and related manufacturing but that's hardly an area where the state is lacking for similarly-paid jobs.

A battery plant isn't much different that an Amazon warehouse: generally unskilled labor not requiring any real education and employees are paid accordingly.

Even with Canoo, it will just be assembly in an old road equipment manufacturing building. It's not like either one of these companies is ever going to be headquartered here or that any of their profits will stay in Oklahoma.


For any real counter-balance to what may be a fading O&G industry (and isn't that a big part of the argument for the $1 billion in incentives?), we need to replace those legacy energy companies with alternative energy and EV businesses that actually originate here and stay and grow here. I don't see a single shred of evidence that that is happening and adding a battery factory in Pryor is basically earning some political brownie points and not at all setting the state up for future success.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Pan..._IC1149628.htm

[Pete]

^

You can make the same money working at Amazon and they provide benefits from day one.

[Swake]

^

You can make the same money working at Amazon and they provide benefits from day one.

For the low end jobs certainly, but Amazon will not have any of the high end technical jobs. Panasonic is not a warehouse.

[Just the facts]

The only thing that really gets accomplished with something like a battery plant is currency flow. Money would flow into Oklahoma from all corners of the US, cycle through the local economy, before being redistributed to all corners of the US. Now, is that worth exporting $700 million? I don't think so.

[fortpatches]

I don't specifically blame Oklahoma for this particular deal. Unfortunately this is the game all states are playing and Oklahoma is trying to keep up. It is something that needs to be addressed with an agreement between multiple states to stop these massive giveaways. States are competing in a race to the bottom.

There should be more support for Interstate Compacts to do away with this "game".

Phase Out Corporate Giveaways Interstate Compact - Wikipedia

[chssooner]

Yeah, but the loopholes will be plentiful, and every state will offer them as soon as the ROI is there.

[Just the facts]

There should be more support for Interstate Compacts to do away with this "game".

Phase Out Corporate Giveaways Interstate Compact - Wikipedia

This 100%!!! Companies should base their decisions on what is best for their businesses and leave the taxpayers out of it. If Oklahoma finds they can't attract business then change the tax and regulatory framework for everyone, not just a select few.

If tax increments financing, favorable tax status, and property tax abatement are good for some, then it should be good for all.

[GoGators]

It's also why we have such a dearth of start-ups.

Most of the job growth in this country is from small- and medium-sized businesses and those are usually home-grown, not bribed to relocate from elsewhere.

And start-ups come from great universities, of which Oklahoma has exactly zero. Show me a city with a lot of start-ups and well-paying jobs and I'll show you top-notch universities nearby.

Give OU $1 billion instead of Panasonic -- far better long-term investment.

In the absolute worst case scenario is this investment would not spur much new business/industry and the state would only be left with a higher quality, more competitive university that all people of the state could benefit from.

Worst case scenario with these corporate giveaways would be the private company building a plant that brings in mostly low quality jobs, doesn't spur much new business/industry, and the state would be out a billion dollars with almost no benefit to the public.

[fortpatches]

This 100%!!! Companies should base their decisions on what is best for their businesses and leave the taxpayers out of it. If Oklahoma finds they can't attract business then change the tax and regulatory framework for everyone, not just a select few.

If tax increments financing, favorable tax status, and property tax abatement are good for some, then it should be good for all.

Did we.......did we just agree?

[BG918]

At this point is the issue still come down to the infrastructure improvements Panasonic wants in addition to the financial incentive? I know the TIF that Mayes County voted down would’ve funded many of those improvements. Anyone know where the deal currently stands?

[UrbanistPoke]

At this point is the issue still come down to the infrastructure improvements Panasonic wants in addition to the financial incentive? I know the TIF that Mayes County voted down would’ve funded many of those improvements. Anyone know where the deal currently stands?

It's supposed to be addressed in special session. Of course they can't get their act together as usual. McCall wants income tax cuts in order to approve the additional money which is ridiculous but he is using it as leverage for a political win for himself. I've heard he's thinking about running for Governor so it's all for posturing.

[Jersey Boss]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tes...roduction/amp/

Panasonic reduced earnings and cutting EV battery production

[jedicurt]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tes...roduction/amp/

Panasonic reduced earnings and cutting EV battery production

sounds like they are only cutting battery production in japan. as it states earlier that it wouldn't increase production at US factories, but said nothing about cutting US factory production.

[Jersey Boss]

sounds like they are only cutting battery production in japan. as it states earlier that it wouldn't increase production at US factories, but said nothing about cutting US factory production.

Not increasing US production also means no need for an Oklahoma facility. I guess

[gopokes88]

EV overall facing some pretty big headwinds, especially in a high interest rate environment. Don’t know how it plays out in the 2030s but from now till 2030 no way they hit targets.

[Bunty]

Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/ford...nvestment.html

[Midtowner]

EV overall facing some pretty big headwinds, especially in a high interest rate environment. Don’t know how it plays out in the 2030s but from now till 2030 no way they hit targets.

I'm not sure what they were thinking would happen when Ford and other major manufacturers basically doubled the cost of new vehicles. The basic Lightning was supposed to have an MSRP of $35K and now is $59K.

[jedicurt]

I'm not sure what they were thinking would happen when Ford and other major manufacturers basically doubled the cost of new vehicles. The basic Lightning was supposed to have an MSRP of $35K and now is $59K.

and even if the full EV market is dying off... i still have a feeling that Toyota was smart in their continued leverage of new and more advanced hybrid vehicles. battery usage is still going to be going up globally, just maybe not as fast as those who felt EV's were going to take over by 2030, thought.

[Jersey Boss]

and even if the full EV market is dying off... i still have a feeling that Toyota was smart in their continued leverage of new and more advanced hybrid vehicles. battery usage is still going to be going up globally, just maybe not as fast as those who felt EV's were going to take over by 2030, thought.

Mentioning Toyota and the fact that they are developing solid state batteries with a 900 mile range. The lithium batteries could go the route of beta video players or Google glasses.

[gopokes88]

Mentioning Toyota and the fact that they are developing solid state batteries with a 900 mile range. The lithium batteries could go the route of beta video players or Google glasses.

They could be close, they could also continue on the perpetual cycle of being 5 years away like they have been

[FighttheGoodFight]

They could be close, they could also continue on the perpetual cycle of being 5 years away like they have been

Eh they have a good thing going with their PHEVs. The Rav4 Prime is backlogged with orders for years. They know their market pretty well.