Streetcar

[Spartan]

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[shawnw]

I thought both phases 1 and 2 were included in maps funding?

[Urban Pioneer]

Don't even think about "Phase 2" as it relates on those old maps. Remember, our committee was handed a huge curve ball with the Convention Center relocation. We are in the process of examining costs and programability options to serve Core 2 Shore, MAPS 3 Park, and new Convention Center location.

Over 2/3rds of the route will not change and we are about 65% into the final design process. However, the southernmost 3rd of the route is potentially slated to change.

"Phase 2" is a political construct by the consultants and MAPS 3 staff. It is and should be considered an irrelevant term and instead be considered additional contingency money for the main alignment approved by council and under design.

[shawnw]

Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if you said that before. BTW is it fair to say that with CHK troubles that the line up Western will not happen?

[Urban Pioneer]

Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if you said that before. BTW is it fair to say that with CHK troubles that the line up Western will not happen?

I don't think that future streetcar expansion will really be affected by Chesapeake in any form up to the north.

The greatest influence as to whether the streetcar will be expanded in the near future will be if expansions are included in the 2016 General Obligation Bond vote or theoretical 2017 MAPS 4 vote. Of course MAPS 4 could involve a Regional Transit Authority vote as well and the plan that you are referring to that calls for northward and southern expansions along Classen to 63rd (Chesapeake/Classen Curve) and Walker to SW 25th (Capitol Hill) are part of that RTA initiative.

Federal Funding apps could also be applicable.

But the most important influences are political in nature. Does a particular Councillor want the streetcar expanded in their Ward? Are they receiving an organized desire by a certain neighborhood or district such as the Plaza or Uptown? If so, that might influence where expansion occurs.

The other influence can be Tax Increment Financing if a developer makes a plea for expanded streetcar route for economic development purposes. That is also semi-political in nature. Due to the nature of TIF, I suspect that such expansion would occur in a more limited form though that mechanism.

Several of us have thought about hosting a forum through OKC Streetcar and The Modern Transit Project on all of these ideas to help facilitate a discussion about what the possibilities are. Perhaps it could be a joint forum with OKC Talk or something.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City has some districts & areas with unique flavor like Asian District, Classen Curve, Paseo, Plaza, Deep Deuce, Film Row, Bricktown, Adventure District, Midtown, Automobile Alley, Belle Isle, Farmers Market, Capitol Hill, Stockyard City & others. Would be great if we could tie as many of these areas together if and when we expand the street car routes.

[Questor]

Urban Pioneer that's a great idea. Has Pete ever done anything like that before? It seems like a nice fit and something that could generate a lot of visibility for both parties.

[Spartan]

I just put up 32 pics from the completed KC streetcar. https://greenlakebluecity.wordpress....treetcar-pics/

I'd copy more into this thread if I hadn't gone all-Mac recently, which has brought me back to computer illiteracy.








It covers a pretty small slice of KC, but it's a really good start.

[Urban Pioneer]

Great pics!

[LocoAko]

https://www.facebook.com/okcstreetca...type=3&theater

Big news today as we unveil a proposal to expand the streetcar system to better serve the MAPS 3 Park and relocated Convention Center!

Welcome both Red and Blue rail lines with seven minute frequency at what will be a new civic heart to our growing OKC!

[LocoAko]

nm

[David]

Yeah, that's about what I was imagining.

[Urban Pioneer]

One interesting thing about the new line is that we are putting it in a dedicated transit just north of the new boulevard adjacent to the sidewalk. I would expect that this particular stop might be a 'grand stop' with plenty of room for pedestrian interaction. We are essentially treating this two block section as a light rail alignment and eliminating physical interaction with ODOT's' Boulevard.

[shawnw]

I like it. FYI, "Future Convention Center" and "Future Convention Hotel" were added but some of "Future Hotel" markers need to be changed because they're actual hotels now.

[Spartan]

What is our projected ridership?

[Urban Pioneer]

What is our projected ridership?

Quite frankly, I don't recall because it has been so long. Those numbers are buried in a binder somewhere. Regardless, I would recommend throwing them out as they're bound to increase due to all of the apartments coming online.

Getting it built has been my concern. How it is operated after the fact though is just as important to meeting and exceeding those original numbers.

[BG918]

I assume the KC streetcar will eventually be extended to the Plaza?

[LakeEffect]

I assume the KC streetcar will eventually be extended to the Plaza?

I think that's a goal, but I believe the first crack at voting on a new tax to fund such an extension failed the first time around. A vocal anti-streetcar crowd did some persuasive, but misguided (dare I say untruthful?) marketing.

[gopokes88]

That looks pretty awesome.

[Spartan]

Quite frankly, I don't recall because it has been so long. Those numbers are buried in a binder somewhere. Regardless, I would recommend throwing them out as they're bound to increase due to all of the apartments coming online.

Getting it built has been my concern. How it is operated after the fact though is just as important to meeting and exceeding those original numbers.

I know that, but it would still be interesting to track as the KC and Cincy streetcars come online. Can't find ridership projections for KC either, but Cincy projected 6,000 daily riders. I bet they shatter that because OTR is a lot further along than it was when that ridership sim was ran. I'm getting involved with studies on the Northern KY extension, so I will have some strong insights from that project.

The KC streetcar is very exciting. Love the aggressive timeline with that project. Wish I could find their original projections though, just so I can brag about how they will shatter that, too.

I assume the KC streetcar will eventually be extended to the Plaza?

That is the plan, but KCATA also intends to put light rail on the ballot again soon. KC has always been a political transit cluster, and the hope is getting some locals on board with the streetcar will finally tip the scales toward transit.

[LakeEffect]

The KC streetcar is very exciting. Love the aggressive timeline with that project. Wish I could find their original projections though, just so I can brag about how they will shatter that, too.

7. Operations and Ridership | NextRailKC

http://kcmo.gov/wp-content/uploads/2...cal-Report.pdf page 33: opening year ridership forecast - 2,686.

[Spartan]

Wow.

Just for some perspective on that, the Detroit People Mover is considered a failure because it averages 6,000 to 7,800 daily riders depending on what's going on downtown that year.

Good find café.

[Just the facts]

Wow.

Just for some perspective on that, the Detroit People Mover is considered a failure because it averages 6,000 to 7,800 daily riders depending on what's going on downtown that year.

Good find café.

The Jacksonville Skyway is also considered a failure despite 6,000 riders a day, but to be fair, the Detroit and Jax systems are 25 years old and still haven't reached original first year projections - so I can see why some would consider them failures.

[Mr. Cotter]

Interesting in KC: Ford and Bridj team up to bring a new type of mobility to Kansas City - Roadshow

This, tied to a streetcar and a decent bus system would make living without a car easier in OKC in areas outside of downtown.

[AP]

I have never heard of Bridj. I'm very intrigued.