OKC Regional Transit System

[Plutonic Panda]

When the commuter rail line passes through Moore without stopping they will only have themselves to blame.

I recently used the New Mexico Rail Runner this weekend and while I found the frequency to be lacking, it would be a good model to aspire for an OKC commuter line from Norman to Edmond.

I suspect once they see the stations and the activity it spurs they’ll rethink their stance.

[Mississippi Blues]

Do they somehow imagine they are more likely to get that as a non-member of the RTA?

I have no idea when people decided the best response if you don’t get exactly what you want is to cutoff all discussion, or membership in this case, instead of working towards some sort of common ground but it reminds me of this.

WARNING: some may consider this graphic. I will leave it up to those in charge to decide if this video is okay.



To be fair, I am not versed in what has gone on behind the scenes that pushed Midwest City and Moore to withdrawal. Whatever has happened, it still seems short sighted to reject connection into a rail system that will connect you to other nearby cities.

[GoGators]

Probably best for the RTA that Moore pulled out. There is not a location in Moore where a rail stop would even make sense.

[BoulderSooner]

Probably best for the RTA that Moore pulled out. There is not a location in Moore where a rail stop would even make sense.

the RTA is about much more then rail ... the bus system (system wide) would be the first thing improved . .

removing tax revenue to build / operate the system is not a good thing

[PaddyShack]

the RTA is about much more then rail ... the bus system (system wide) would be the first thing improved . .

removing tax revenue to build / operate the system is not a good thing

This is why I really hope Yukon joins the RTA, if we got bus service that made our trips into DT and back I would be happy. Yes, train service could make it better, but just having any public transit between Yukon and the metro would be a win!

[baralheia]

Probably best for the RTA that Moore pulled out. There is not a location in Moore where a rail stop would even make sense.

Other than the park/aquatic center they built at 4th and Broadway, next to the train tracks, on land that the city already owns?

[catch22]

Probably best for the RTA that Moore pulled out. There is not a location in Moore where a rail stop would even make sense.

A park and ride at the park Moore just built would be perfect, south of 4th. It literally butts up to the railroad. Or a little bit south of there, on the north side of 19th street. Or, if Moore wanted to attempt some transit development they could put it on Main street right next to the Moore municipal services (clerk, PD etc.). I am confused by this comment as Moore is perfectly situated on the BNSF mainline.

[LakeEffect]

A park and ride at the park Moore just built would be perfect, south of 4th. It literally butts up to the railroad. Or a little bit south of there, on the north side of 19th street. Or, if Moore wanted to attempt some transit development they could put it on Main street right next to the Moore municipal services (clerk, PD etc.). I am confused by this comment as Moore is perfectly situated on the BNSF mainline.

Moore's Comprehensive Plan states:

2. INCREASE MOBILITY FOR ALL USERS
• Strategy 2.1: Increase mobility options via public transit.
• Consider providing CART and Metro Transit.
• Support Locally Preferred Alternatives with a Moore commuter rail transit station. - emphasis added -

https://www.cityofmoore.com/sites/de...plan-small.pdf (page 101)

[HOT ROD]

oh well, I suppose with moore out that will better align the Crossroads Commuter Rail park n ride.

[GoGators]

A park and ride at the park Moore just built would be perfect, south of 4th. It literally butts up to the railroad. Or a little bit south of there, on the north side of 19th street. Or, if Moore wanted to attempt some transit development they could put it on Main street right next to the Moore municipal services (clerk, PD etc.). I am confused by this comment as Moore is perfectly situated on the BNSF mainline.

Park and Rides only make sense on extremely low value land. I doubt Moore would want to fill the heart of their town with a giant non revenue generating parking lot. At the same time, there is no part of Moore that could accommodate a commuter train stop without it being a park and ride. So, IMO a stop just doesn't make sense for Moore or the RTA.

[baralheia]

Park and Rides only make sense on extremely low value land. I doubt Moore would want to fill the heart of their town with a giant non revenue generating parking lot. At the same time, there is no part of Moore that could accommodate a commuter train stop without it being a park and ride. So, IMO a stop just doesn't make sense for Moore or the RTA.

We don't need an absolutely massive parking lot for this, and that lot can be shared with the aquatic center and park there at 4th & Broadway. If you look at Google Maps, there is plenty of space at the north end of that lot that is unprogrammed space and perfecly sized to handle commuter volumes. That's enough space to build a parking lot similar to ones found at suburban Metra stations in the Chicagoland area - examples being Prospect Heights, Wheeling, or Crystal Lake. This spot at 4th & Broadway is completely feasible for Moore's station and parking lot.

You'd definitely want larger parking capability in Norman and Edmond, though - likely necessitating structured parking due to space constraints in both locations.

[catch22]

Park and Rides only make sense on extremely low value land. I doubt Moore would want to fill the heart of their town with a giant non revenue generating parking lot. At the same time, there is no part of Moore that could accommodate a commuter train stop without it being a park and ride. So, IMO a stop just doesn't make sense for Moore or the RTA.

I think you are missing the ball here. Ridership wouldn't likely necessitate the need for a 25-acre parking lot like you may see in larger cities. A parking lot with several hundred spaces would likely be enough to serve a Moore stop for the foreseeable future. The Park and Ride on New Mexico Rail Runner at Montano Street is just 3.5 acres including a bus stop and the train platform. I estimate about 200 parking spots at that stop.



This site in Moore is 3.25 acres and is very comparable in size and layout and would probably support the needs of a commuter line for 20-30 years or more.

[baralheia]

Thanks for posting those pictures, Catch22 - this is exactly my argument as well and you've illustrated it perfectly.

[shawnw]

Virtual Townhall on 6/15

[GoGators]

I think you are missing the ball here. Ridership wouldn't likely necessitate the need for a 25-acre parking lot like you may see in larger cities. A parking lot with several hundred spaces would likely be enough to serve a Moore stop for the foreseeable future. The Park and Ride on New Mexico Rail Runner at Montano Street is just 3.5 acres including a bus stop and the train platform. I estimate about 200 parking spots at that stop.



This site in Moore is 3.25 acres and is very comparable in size and layout and would probably support the needs of a commuter line for 20-30 years or more.

I didn't pull Moore out of the RTA. I am just pointing out that Moore deciding to pull out is not a negative for the RTA. I am much more interested in the stops that will be able to serve the surrounding communities than the stops that will serve surface parking lots. IMO Moore pulling out saves the RTA from one more park and ride stop and that is not a bad thing.

[baralheia]

I didn't pull Moore out of the RTA. I am just pointing out that Moore deciding to pull out is not a negative for the RTA. I am much more interested in the stops that will be able to serve the surrounding communities than the stops that will serve surface parking lots. IMO Moore pulling out saves the RTA from one more park and ride stop and that is not a bad thing.

Downtown Moore - as well as several large neighborhoods - are all within easy walking distance of this spot, and within driving distance for those further out. I expect that pretty much all stops will have at least some amount of parking, as that is common for commuter rail stations in the United States - except for areas of very high residential density like certain stops in Chicago. This is also true of our neighbors to the south in the DFW Metroplex - nearly every stop on the TRE is tied to a parking lot.

I, for one, hope Moore reconsiders, as not having them in the system would indeed be a blow to the line and the community.

[GoGators]

Downtown Moore - as well as several large neighborhoods - are all within easy walking distance of this spot, and within driving distance for those further out. I expect that pretty much all stops will have at least some amount of parking, as that is common for commuter rail stations in the United States - except for areas of very high residential density like certain stops in Chicago. This is also true of our neighbors to the south in the DFW Metroplex - nearly every stop on the TRE is tied to a parking lot.

I, for one, hope Moore reconsiders, as not having them in the system would indeed be a blow to the line and the community.

Of course each stop will require parking but any stop in Moore would exclusively require someone driving to and from the stop. These Types of stops should be avoided. There is nowhere in Moore where a passenger could get off and access anything without immediately needing a car. No serious amount of people in Moore could comfortably access any stop in Moore without driving to it. That is simply not going change in Moore. Since Covid, these park and ride transit stops have been crushed in several cities as they cater to a very specific twice a day 5 days a week downtown commuter that disappeared (and may never fully recover.)

[Plutonic Panda]

^^ no they shouldn’t be avoided. Park n ride can be very beneficial in reducing urban traffic in the core or cities. What a ridiculous take. Moore should also increase cycling facilities and bus service, something they can do on their own without having their hands out for the RTA to do for them.

[shawnw]

Moore has had years pre-RTA to do something about cycling and transit (they wouldn't have even have had to do it themselves, they could have partnered with Embark to make a few routes that linked to the rest of the network) for their citizens and they've done squat. It's clearly not a priority for them at all.

[baralheia]

Of course each stop will require parking but any stop in Moore would exclusively require someone driving to and from the stop. These Types of stops should be avoided. There is nowhere in Moore where a passenger could get off and access anything without immediately needing a car. No serious amount of people in Moore could comfortably access any stop in Moore without driving to it. That is simply not going change in Moore. Since Covid, these park and ride transit stops have been crushed in several cities as they cater to a very specific twice a day 5 days a week downtown commuter that disappeared (and may never fully recover.)

So two things: first, the location we've outlined in Moore at 4th and Broadway is literally just south of downtown Moore, and sidewalks already exist to connect from downtown to 4th Street. This does need improvement, as well as some sidewalks along 4th Street too to make neighborhood access easier - but the facility already exists today (at least partially) and sidewalks are (relatively) easy to add. Plus the aquatic center and park is right there as well, which can be a destination in and of itself, if marketed as such. In addition to that, transit oriented development is a thing - if Moore commits to having a commuter station, that station won't exist in a void and it *will* spur nearby development. Both of these needs - destinations available immediately to passengers upon exiting the station, as well as the capability for people to drive to the station in order to ride - are important and need to be considered in balance.

[bombermwc]

Moore's out now so is Midwest City and Del City. It's not looking like this is going to happen. The more groups that drop, the higher the cost is for those that are left. I dont see Norman and Edmond paying for it besause there's no benefit for them with paying for all the work related to this now.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...ty/7618051001/

[Plutonic Panda]

It’s still going to happen.

[Jersey Boss]

It’s still going to happen.

What is the basis of your belief?
I agree with BMWC. Norman and Edmond are not going to approve the costs that are increasing because of quitters.

[bombermwc]

It’s still going to happen.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I'll believe it when I see it. The amount of money required to get this thing going would require a bone in each city even if everyone did agree. Right now, Norman would have to pay for all the work done to get a line put through Moore. I think the city of Moore might have something to say about that. Depending on where the Edmond line goes, you may have some of the smaller burbs up there to worry about.

And them still talking about it still needing to convert to bus to go to Tinker. Come on, i mean that kills it too. Why bother with the train if they are going to have an express bus option to Tinker?
Keep in mind that people that can afford a car, aren't going to be the ones making use of this. So those downtown workers aren't really the ones you're marketing to. Which is the biggest reason these cities are dropping out. They don't see ridership coming to fruition. I've said all along that i wish we could do this and that it only works if everyone does it at the same time. But that we just dont have the density to make it work.

[Plutonic Panda]

What is the basis of your belief?
I agree with BMWC. Norman and Edmond are not going to approve the costs that are increasing because of quitters.

OKC, Edmond, and Norman are the biggest pieces of the puzzle. The RTA needs those cities. Funding from MWC, Moore, and Del City aren’t so important. Tinker is also a big goal and the agency is still planning on funding that. I highly doubt this plan is scrapped. If anything it may allow it to move faster. These cities, at least Moore and MWC will eventually buy back in.