Oklahoma liquor laws

[bradh]

So tell me why a model clearly successful for small breweries in Texas wouldn't work here, or what law is keeping it from happening.

[bchris02]

Spare me. Yes it is an agenda. Do you think posters on here are stupid? I hate that we cannot have an honest conversation on here regarding anything without you chiming in reminding everyone what a ****hole this place is and what it is "lacking" and how it was better in Charlotte blah blah blah and contributing nothing.

I have attempted over the past several months to keep the negativity on OKCTalk to a minimum, but there are certain things that are impossible to sugar coat, the liquor laws being one of them. I want to see better for OKC. If I have an agenda, that is what it is. And OKC is "lacking" many things compared to Charlotte and other cities as well. I want to see a day when that is no longer the case. Liquor modernization will be a huge step in that direction which is one reason I am passionate about it and why it really frustrates me when people defend the status quo.

[SouthsideSooner]

There isn't any narrative or agenda. The liquor laws in Oklahoma are archaic and among the most restrictive in the nation on the consumer. Only Utah and arguably Pennsylvania are more restrictive. The state is largely missing out on the brewpub explosion happening in other states because of these laws. Pointing out stupid laws in other states doesn't change that fact.

I guess it's a matter of opinion but I think the states with the most archaic and outdated liquor laws are the ones where the government is directly in control of the sale of liquor to the public. These states are referred to as "control states". Some are just at the wholesale level and others are both wholesale and retail. In these states, the state has a complete monopoly on liquor sales with no competition on price.

There are currently 17 control states in the U.S. and Oklahoma isn't one of them but since you are so fond of talking about Charlotte, lets take North Carolina for an example...

They may have wine and strong beer in grocery stores but spirits at both the wholesale and retail level are government monopolies. The only liquor stores in Charlotte are state run "ABC liquor stores". They all have the same prices...and they have the selection and customer service you can only expect from dealing with a state agency.

Lets look at a few examples... You can purchase a 1.75 of Jack Daniels Black at Quicker Liquor in OKC for $37.99 and at Byrons, it's a few bucks cheaper. The same bottle anywhere in Charlotte is $49.95. Crown Royal 1.75? $39.99 at QL vs. $52.95 anywhere in N. Carolina... Johnny Walker Black 1.75? $63.99 at QL vs. $83.99 unless your willing to drive out of N.C. to another state for reasonable prices...

If you're a consumer that prefers a cocktail instead of beer or wine, prepare to be bent over in Charlotte and don't expect a kiss... How's that for "modern liquor laws"?

[bchris02]

I guess it's a matter of opinion but I think the states with the most archaic and outdated liquor laws are the ones where the government is directly in control of the sale of liquor to the public. These states are referred to as "control states". Some are just at the wholesale level and others are both wholesale and retail. In these states, the state has a complete monopoly on liquor sales with no competition on price.

There are currently 17 control states in the U.S. and Oklahoma isn't one of them but since you are so fond of talking about Charlotte, lets take North Carolina for an example...

They may have wine and strong beer in grocery stores but spirits at both the wholesale and retail level are government monopolies. The only liquor stores in Charlotte are state run "ABC liquor stores". They all have the same prices...and they have the selection and customer service you can only expect from dealing with a state agency.

Lets look at a few examples... You can purchase a 1.75 of Jack Daniels Black at Quicker Liquor in OKC for $37.99 and at Byrons, it's a few bucks cheaper. The same bottle anywhere in Charlotte is $49.95. Crown Royal 1.75? $39.99 at QL vs. $52.95 anywhere in N. Carolina... Johnny Walker Black 1.75? $63.99 at QL vs. $83.99 unless your willing to drive out of N.C. to another state for reasonable prices...

If you're a consumer that prefers a cocktail instead of beer or wine, prepare to be bent over in Charlotte and don't expect a kiss... How's that for "modern liquor laws"?

I guess you do have a point. Everything you say is true and ABC stores really are terrible. Charlotte borders South Carolina and a lot of people drive to SC for spirits for that reason. Being a beer and wine person myself it never affected me much but I can understand how somebody who drinks spirits and/or cocktails would be really fed up by the laws.

When I talk about modern laws moving Oklahoma forward, I am also talking about the intangible benefits. I can guarantee that a full-fledged grocer downtown would happen a lot sooner if they were able to sell wine and full-strength beer. Grocery stores typically operate on razor-thin margin but they make up for it by alcohol sales. OKC's grocery store issues would disappear quickly post-modernization. Also, the brewpub culture in OKC would likely explode as it is in other cities across the nation. There would also be retailers like Total Wine and BevMo that would enter the market. Modern laws would mean an improved quality of life for Oklahomans in intangible ways that don't simply consist of being able to buy beer cold or on a Sunday.

There is also the image factor. Oklahoma has image problems to begin with, wouldn't it be nice for outdated liquor laws to be an outdated stereotype? Wouldn't it be nice to no longer hear people from out of state snicker about watered down 3.2 beer?

[bille]

So tell me why a model clearly successful for small breweries in Texas wouldn't work here, or what law is keeping it from happening.

Nobody's saying our breweries couldn't have the same success provided the laws were changed to allow it. OR it could be done now but the beer served would have to be <3.2abw. Considering most breweries are time/space limited keeping up with production of their core brands (that are >3.2) there doesn't leave a lot of options for opening the brewery up for events like that.

I know prairie (Tulsa) keeps a regular supply of 3.2 beers and will have a food truck out at various times throughout the week and will add tours and other special releases on a weekend every month or so. Additionally you have events like H&8th and the one Edmond is doing now. Likewise I'm sure if they wanted to a brewery could set up and sell 3.2 at the blue garten.

[bradh]

Nobody's saying our breweries couldn't have the same success provided the laws were changed to allow it. OR it could be done now but the beer served would have to be <3.2abw. Considering most breweries are time/space limited keeping up with production of their core brands (that are >3.2) there doesn't leave a lot of options for opening the brewery up for events like that.

I know prairie (Tulsa) keeps a regular supply of 3.2 beers and will have a food truck out at various times throughout the week and will add tours and other special releases on a weekend every month or so. Additionally you have events like H&8th and the one Edmond is doing now. Likewise I'm sure if they wanted to a brewery could set up and sell 3.2 at the blue garten.

Okay that's what I was asking, it wasn't clear to me that the breweries couldn't have high point beer at these events. Is that the only law that's different. Still though, your post came across as saying these would be held at huge losses to the brewer even if the laws were right.

[bille]

Okay that's what I was asking, it wasn't clear to me that the breweries couldn't have high point beer at these events. Is that the only law that's different. Still though, your post came across as saying these would be held at huge losses to the brewer even if the laws were right.

My apologies for not being more clear. What I meant by "significant loss" is that the breweries currently can only give, not sell, their normal strength beers. I suppose it's debatable how great a loss it is, or would be to do on a regular basis, but I think I covered my point of view well enough already.

Next up would be an issue with traffic, even when breweries do open up their doors to give away beer the maximum they can give away per person per day is 12oz. You'll be hard pressed finding large groups to regularly venture out to every local brewery (even if it is largely/completely free) for what equates to one beer. Now if we had a densely populated area where people could walk from brewery to brewery it would be different but if you map out our breweries (and we really don't have that many) they are spread out all over the place.

Now if 424 passes things will be different but I'm still unsure how different. 424 will allow for breweries to sell their regular beers, any of their beers to my understanding. Up until this morning I was under the impression that the beer was for off-premise consumption only but I recently spoke with a member of LOCAL who says the senators sponsoring the bill feel the bill covers them for on premise consumption as well. If that truly is the case then this would be HUGE for our local breweries and yes, it would essentially set things in motion for there to be events like Texas (and most other states) has.

[bradh]

If brewers charge an entry fee of $5, does that count as "charging" for the 4 samples you get, thus allowing full strength samples?

[bille]

I think it may or at least it could be presumed which is why usually breweries will include a glass with the tour or just not charge at all.

[Bullbear]

I know in Atlanta I believe they have similar law.. so they sell you a pint glass.. and the glass entitles you to 6 samples.

[Bunty]

I didn't know this. Wal-Mart has sued Texas for the right to sell liquor. Wal-Mart in Showdown With Texas Over Alcohol - WSJ

[Laramie]

I didn't know this. Wal-Mart has sued Texas for the right to sell liquor. Wal-Mart in Showdown With Texas Over Alcohol - WSJ

Back in 1999, while shopping in Larry's shoes in Fort Worth; they had a bar inside the store and served free mixed drinks to customers--man that was quite a surprise...

[LakeEffect]

Meanwhile, in Kansas:

Kansas Senate blocks sale of strong beer in grocery stores

Kansas Senate blocks sale of strong beer in grocery stores | The Kansas City Star The Kansas City Star

[bchris02]

Any update on SB 424?

I know the chilled beer thing is held up because of the amendment to put normal-strength beer in grocery stores, but is there progress on the bill to allow breweries to sell direct?

[Bullbear]

It was given conference and the latest update on Legal scan states the status as "engross" 2015-05-21
Conferees unable to agree

[bchris02]

It was given conference and the latest update on Legal scan states the status as "engross" 2015-05-21
Conferees unable to agree

So does that mean it failed?

[onthestrip]

So does that mean it failed?

Legislative session is over, so maybe next year. I feel like I tell myself that every year after good, modern legislation doesnt get heard or passed, "maybe next year.." (sigh).

[Jersey Boss]

Legislative session is over, so maybe next year. I feel like I tell myself that every year after good, modern legislation doesnt get heard or passed, "maybe next year.." (sigh).

Sounds like the Cubs fan I work with.

[bchris02]

I am very surprised they couldn't get SB 424 passed. 383 is understandable especially after the amendment, but 424 should have sailed through easily. Does anybody know what stopped it?

[Jersey Boss]

In politics, the consequences of voting "no" are lesser than the explaining of a "yes" vote.

[gopokes88]

My liquor store guys said Clark Jolly jacked the entire thing up by adding an amendment for wine in grocery to it. A clean cold beer in liquor stores would have passed easily, adding wine in grocery creates a mess and lawsuits. That's why it got tabled.

[bchris02]

My liquor store guys said Clark Jolly jacked the entire thing up by adding an amendment for wine in grocery to it. A clean cold beer in liquor stores would have passed easily, adding wine in grocery creates a mess and lawsuits. That's why it got tabled.

This is understandable, but what was so bad about SB 424? Oklahoma law prohibits breweries from selling direct to consumers, which is why Oklahoma is missing out on the brewpub culture currently booming in other states. SB 424 would have changed this, putting brewers on the same level is wineries. Most people expected it to easily pass yet it didn't.

[gopokes88]

This is understandable, but what was so bad about SB 424? Oklahoma law prohibits breweries from selling direct to consumers, which is why Oklahoma is missing out on the brewpub culture currently booming in other states. SB 424 would have changed this, putting brewers on the same level is wineries. Most people expected it to easily pass yet it didn't.

No idea. I'll ask around.

[bchris02]

Julie DelCour: Spin the bottle: Will 2016 be the year Oklahoma normalizes beer laws? - Tulsa World: Julie DelCour

[ljbab728]

Anheuser- Busch leaves Oklahoma trade group over liquor law dispute | NewsOK.com

Anheuser-Busch Sales of Oklahoma is leaving the trade organization, Beer Distributors of Oklahoma, due to disagreements over the state's liquor laws.

"For the past several years, a well-intentioned effort has been undertaken by legislators and stakeholders seeking to modernize Oklahoma's alcohol laws," the company said in a statement. "In Oklahoma and elsewhere, Anheuser-Busch is a strong supporter of modernization guided by free market principles and robust consumer choice. However, our definition of and path toward modernization does not align with the Beer Distributors of Oklahoma."
The company believes that state laws should be reformed to allow for the sale of refrigerated, strong beer, said Eric James, senior director of sales and marketing for Anheuser-Busch Sales of Oklahoma.