Electric Vehicles

[Mississippi Blues]

People aren't giving up private car ownership. I understand dreaming of a perfect utopian mass transit solution, but EVs replacing gas powered vehicles is a major positive transition that shouldn't be proclaimed as "worse for the environment".

I’m not sold on the “worse for the environment” label either, but it’s not (strictly) about giving up private car ownership, especially anytime soon. It’s about not prioritizing car ownership at the expense of methods that create better communities, which does lead to decreased private car dependency, but not without improving the quality of life in other areas. Private vehicles have their place in that, just without inherent priority over other methods of transportation or the development of communities, and so on.

[oklip955]

Not everyone wants to live in town surrounded by alot of other people. How do you have horses or cows or chickens in that environment? How do you go to the feed store and haul feed and or hay? For us that want to live farther out, public transportation is not an option nor do some of us want that. We want the wide open spaces to be able to run through our pastures with a feeling of freedom. Its kind of like the governemnt saying you have to use led lights, ok for those who cannot what is my option?? I guess I am going to oil lamps. Yes it looks like that is going to me my option.

[baralheia]

Y'all. This isn't an all-or-nothing kind of thing. Reducing the general public's reliance on personal vehicles in favor or mass transit options means just that - reducing, not eliminating. There will never be fully universal public mass transit, especially in more rural locales, and personal vehicles will continue to be a thing for quite some time. But there is a big environmental benefit from taking reasonable efforts to make mass transit a viable and attractive option for as many people as possible. A switch to EVs will also help minimize emissions for those who still need a personal vehicle for whatever reason.

[Urbanized]

yes. public transportation is better in many ways than everyone owning cars. but car culture isn't just going to go away. that isn't a real option. so to say that EV's are worse for the environment than public transportation, fine, but they are still significantly better than the alternative vehicles those 50 people would have been driving, and can much more easily become a real replacement option.

It shouldn’t be about forcing people into public transportation, it SHOULD be about building communities in such a way that most daily tasks COULD be accomplished easily via walking, transit, and micro-transit. This could easily take place in all towns, big AND small.

Automobiles aren’t inherently evil; in fact they are a practical, modern miracle. The only problem is that we are FORCED to use them too much. It’s a policy choice. A dearth of options is the real issue. It’s the OPPOSITE of freedom, and yet “freedom” is what is being sold. It’s a massive scam. We should ALL be angry about it.

[fortpatches]

Y'all. This isn't an all-or-nothing kind of thing. Reducing the general public's reliance on personal vehicles in favor or mass transit options means just that - reducing, not eliminating. There will never be fully universal public mass transit, especially in more rural locales, and personal vehicles will continue to be a thing for quite some time. But there is a big environmental benefit from taking reasonable efforts to make mass transit a viable and attractive option for as many people as possible. A switch to EVs will also help minimize emissions for those who still need a personal vehicle for whatever reason.

I am definitely ready for the day we can move from two cars to one car for my household. Like if my car can take me to work, uber someone in the direction of my house, then pick my partner up to take him to work, it would be fantastic. Very rarely do we have to both use our cars at the same time, so a system like this would be great.

[josefromtulsa]

Not everyone wants to live in town surrounded by alot of other people. How do you have horses or cows or chickens in that environment? How do you go to the feed store and haul feed and or hay? For us that want to live farther out, public transportation is not an option nor do some of us want that. We want the wide open spaces to be able to run through our pastures with a feeling of freedom. Its kind of like the governemnt saying you have to use led lights, ok for those who cannot what is my option?? I guess I am going to oil lamps. Yes it looks like that is going to me my option.

No one is taking any of that away. You can have as many cars as you want and roads as you want but they should not be subsidized by people in urban areas. Currently as it is, mostly development is focused in the suburban areas because of the development code. Right now people only have the choice to drive in the area. Freedom of movement is the ability to move as you please not the ability to drive after you've purchased a car, gotten insurance, paid taxes, and have registered with the state. And remember cars give freedom only when the road is open and clear. When a road closes for construction or is clogged with traffic that doesnt spell freedom to me.

[Mississippi Blues]

Not everyone wants to live in town surrounded by alot of other people. How do you have horses or cows or chickens in that environment? How do you go to the feed store and haul feed and or hay? For us that want to live farther out, public transportation is not an option nor do some of us want that. We want the wide open spaces to be able to run through our pastures with a feeling of freedom. Its kind of like the governemnt saying you have to use led lights, ok for those who cannot what is my option?? I guess I am going to oil lamps. Yes it looks like that is going to me my option.

I didn’t see this, but baralheia and josefromtulsa are correct, ruralism isn’t in danger. It’s about the functioning of communities built to be best supported by density and urban concepts but aren’t viable due to historic subsidizing and regulations around private vehicles as the main, often times only, form of transportation. No one wants to go out to Sayre, Oklahoma or Meeteetse, Wyoming to build blocks of khrushchevka or danchi style housing, tear up the streets to put in LM-68M trams and gravel sidewalks, force everyone into that lifestyle, then install iron curtain-style barriers and watchtowers to keep citizens from going in or out of the communities.

As gently as I can say this, it helps to read, watch videos, etc, of source material itself if understanding is desired. What you suggested sounds like overthinking to fill in the gaps over a lack of acknowledgement that ruralism isn’t the intended target.

Like I said before and in the vein of freedom, it’s generally about loosening strict, backwards regulations that promote cities to grow further out towards those living in rural areas. Or another way of saying it is it’s about fixing what already exists at the center through city planning, not going further out to eliminate ruralism. As I see it, urbanites and ruralists have desires that work harmoniously but too often believe they are on opposing sides over what seems to simply be having antonymous root words. Once folks get past viewing groups with differing processes as an enemy, the conversations start to make a lot more sense.

[Rover]

Its kind of like the governemnt saying you have to use led lights, ok for those who cannot what is my option?? I guess I am going to oil lamps. Yes it looks like that is going to me my option.

Why in the world couldn't you use LED bulbs? LOL. That isn't rural, that's archaic.

[David]

You know, that is a good question. What is the mindset that someone would choose not to use LED lights?

[PhiAlpha]

Yeah LED bulbs are bad ass. I’ve had the same bulbs installed since about 2016.

[baralheia]

You know, that is a good question. What is the mindset that someone would choose not to use LED lights?

About the only thing I can think of is maybe dimming performance? Many cheaper LED lamps aren't built with the right circuitry to be reliably dimmed, although that is slowly changing. Or maybe flickering, some of the cheapest LED lamps use little in the way of filtering so to some sensitive eyes they appear to flicker - but that largely disappears with more expensive, better quality lamps. There are also some that strongly prefer the look of clear, un-frosted bulbs, and for a long time there were no real options that looked good - though there are now mainstream "filament LED" options that do a pretty darn good job of mimicking the look of a clear incandescent lamp (the GE ones are my favorite so far!)

[Martin]

one gripe that i have with many led fixtures is that they are integrated, meaning that you can't swap the bulb out when they eventually die. i'm in the process of replacing the recessed fixtures under the eaves of my house and most all of the fixtures that i like are fully integrated solutions. my concern is that one light will die prematurely and i'll be out of luck unless i buy a few extra fixtures. i'd much rather replace a bulb than an entire fixture.

[fortpatches]

About the only thing I can think of is maybe dimming performance? Many cheaper LED lamps aren't built with the right circuitry to be reliably dimmed, although that is slowly changing. Or maybe flickering, some of the cheapest LED lamps use little in the way of filtering so to some sensitive eyes they appear to flicker - but that largely disappears with more expensive, better quality lamps. There are also some that strongly prefer the look of clear, un-frosted bulbs, and for a long time there were no real options that looked good - though there are now mainstream "filament LED" options that do a pretty darn good job of mimicking the look of a clear incandescent lamp (the GE ones are my favorite so far!)

As far as dimming, it isn't just the LED circuitry that should be considered. Cheap dimmers may also be an issue. But modern, quality dimmers work great. I just replaced the dimmers on my second floor with Lutron dimmers. You can actually adjust the low-end and high-end dimming limits to eliminate flickering (even though the defaults worked perfect for me).

[kukblue1]

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08...c-vehicle-fee/ Under new state law, Texas will bill electric vehicle drivers an extra $200 a year

[Mountaingoat]

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08...c-vehicle-fee/ Under new state law, Texas will bill electric vehicle drivers an extra $200 a year

As it should be. EV owners should contribute to state transportation funding just as gasoline users.

[Soonerinfiniti]

As it should be. EV owners should contribute to state transportation funding just as gasoline users.

Or perhaps the electric companies should allocate some of their taxes paid by EV owners to roads?

[TheTravellers]

Or perhaps the electric companies should allocate some of their taxes paid by EV owners to roads?

Unworkable. AFAIK, OG&E does not know I own an EV, and why should they know that?

[Jersey Boss]

As it should be. EV owners should contribute to state transportation funding just as gasoline users.

Money grab. Texas fuel tax is $.20/ gal. The average Texan pays $9.52 a month. ( Texas Dept. Of Transportation)

[TheTravellers]

Money grab. Texas fuel tax is $.20/ gal. The average Texan pays $9.52 a month. ( Texas Dept. Of Transportation)

OK's EV charge at registration is $110 for my MINI, how does that compare to what the average Okie pays per month for fuel tax?

Just read that there will be a 3 cent tax per kwh at public charging stations in OK, starting next year, I believe.

[fortpatches]

OK's EV charge at registration is $110 for my MINI, how does that compare to what the average Okie pays per month for fuel tax?

Just read that there will be a 3 cent tax per kwh at public charging stations in OK, starting next year, I believe.

According to OKPolicy, in 2016, it was $118 with an expected 1% increase per year, which would put their estimate at $124 in 2021.

In 2021, revenue was about $359.2 million with about 2.6 mil drivers, so roughly $138.15 average.

So, I would guess the average person pays between $120-140/yr in fuel tax. So roughly $10-12 per month in fuel tax.

[April in the Plaza]

Money grab. Texas fuel tax is $.20/ gal. The average Texan pays $9.52 a month. ( Texas Dept. Of Transportation)

An extra $70 to $80/year doesn’t seem all that unreasonable, especially since the average EV weighs roughly ~25% more than the average ice vehicle.

[Jersey Boss]

An extra $70 to $80/year doesn’t seem all that unreasonable, especially since the average EV weighs roughly ~25% more than the average ice vehicle.

What is your source on average vehicle weights? Are your averages based only on Texas registered vehicles as that is who is paying this fee.You are also deflecting the point on this tax leveling the playing field.

[April in the Plaza]

What is your source on average vehicle weights? Are your averages based only on Texas registered vehicles as that is who is paying this fee.You are also deflecting the point on this tax leveling the playing field.

So many sources.

https://slate.com/business/2021/05/f...ic-weight.html

[Jersey Boss]

So many sources.

https://slate.com/business/2021/05/f...ic-weight.html

Irrelevant as not Texas specific. Try again

[chssooner]

Irrelevant as not Texas specific. Try again

You are asking for info that no one on this planet can provide. Anywhere. Seriously, state-specific? Only the DMV would have that, and they don't keep weight, just registration.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/a...electric-cars/

For this purpose, the weight difference by state is irrelevant. If an EV weighs more in California or Texas, then it does in Kentucky or Georgia, as well. So if a car weighs more, it's impact on the road is conceivably going to be higher, regardless of where.

So no, not irrelevant.

The amount they decided to charge maybe up for debate, but finding average car weight by state may be the dumbest thing I have ever seen asked for.