OKC Regional Transit System

[HOT ROD]

We're talking about potential Maps 5 and I totally agree that OKC could be a much more beautiful city if it and the state focused on bridges and their landscaping/approaches.

I'd totally support if ODOT would redo the I-35 bridge and OKC chipped in (some funds from MAPS 5 perhaps) to make a grand suspension or cable-span bridge and named it "the Crossroads of America". Something GRAND and ICONIC but also functional for the river below as well as the vehicles/walkways on.

[shawnw]

If we're talking MAPS5, if such a thing were to happen, we're talking about collecting this money between 2030-2040 and it not getting built until possibly after that if not late in that timeframe. Not sure that that lines up with either the chamber priority timeline or any I-35 construction...

[Plutonic Panda]

Ideally the legislature would let ODOT take out a bond for the new bridge. Not sure if it would qualify for any bridge funds if the bridge isn’t in immediate need of replacement.

[stlokc]

I agree that most of our infrastructure is quite ugly and think it's borderline unbelievable that there doesn't seem to be an ounce of landscaping among the approaches and ramps in the new 44/235 junction. (as an example). This was something built from scratch that could have incorporated stone walls, plantings, etc.

But we already have what is supposed to be the iconic OKC bridge just a mile or so west of this location. There are better uses for any available money than to try to build a Margaret Hunt-type bridge. Just my opinion.

[Plutonic Panda]

Some good news as Yukon shows interest to join the RTA. Mustang would be wise to follow suit. Planning for an orbital LRT line should start ASAP before ROW is completely taken. Still think it’s extremely short sighted for MWC to not be part of this.

https://www.oklahoman.com/restricted...F6854191001%2F

[BoulderSooner]

Some good news as Yukon shows interest to join the RTA. Mustang would be wise to follow suit. Planning for an orbital LRT line should start ASAP before ROW is completely taken. Still think it’s extremely short sighted for MWC to not be part of this.

https://www.oklahoman.com/restricted...F6854191001%2F

they still want to go from downtown to Tinker AFB and having MWC opting out (thus not having a stop) will make that trip faster ... and that sounds great

[Plutonic Panda]

they still want to go from downtown to Tinker AFB and having MWC opting out (thus not having a stop) will make that trip faster ... and that sounds great

No it doesn’t

[Plutonic Panda]

they still want to go from downtown to Tinker AFB and having MWC opting out (thus not having a stop) will make that trip faster ... and that sounds great

I want to respond a little more in depth here. They can still do what other major cities do and offer express trains straight into Tinker. But MWC is not exactly full of affluent residents and in America lots of transit riders are ones that need transit with little to no alternatives like owning a car, which ideally the government could help with that but in todays political climate that idea is DOA.

MWC and it’s residents would greatly benefit having fast and reliable public transit to OKC. I really don’t think transit to tinker is going to be a game changer or attract any businesses there that wouldn’t otherwise locate there without transit options. But it does offer a healthy lifestyle and benefits the people that work there who want alternatives.

[bombermwc]

People in MWC own their own cars. Very few people take the busses. So much like other areas, the only way this works in MWC (and thus the only reason MWC would want to put money in to it) is if that rail ride can beat the car.....and it can't. Also, people that think MWC is just what's at 29th/I40 dont know anything about MWC. MWC actually has a pretty large affluent area. It's just not where you can see it from the highway. Basically, take Douglas and go east to Choctaw. But that's a different conversation.

To be honest, i dont think we're going to see a practical transit line for 50 years. We're not dense enough and the highways are too good. Now we're seeing the Turnpike Authority about to make MAJOR expansion in the metro. If anything, that should open the highways to make them faster as traffic diverts. And now that people are working remotely, there's even less of a need.

[catch22]

The dead horse that has been beaten too many times in here of course is this: people own cars because they have to, and not always because they want to or they can afford to. In this city there is not much of a choice except for a few key areas that happen to line up with decent bus service out of pure chance.

Investment in transit is an infrastructure investment that enables people to make a choice on what works best for them. For some people on low or fixed incomes owning a car is an anchor on their quality of life, hundreds of dollars per month that they may wish to save, spend on other things, or invest but otherwise cannot. Some people work a second job just to afford the car they use to survive in a city with few and challenging alternatives. That is a drain on quality of life.

[bombermwc]

If your transit model is only relying on the lower income residents to fund it, then its doomed to fail. You have to be able to attract the average person to WANT to ride the rail. People are not going to want to subsidize something on this scale.

If this gets moving, you'll see the pattern you always see in projects like this as well. The land value near the stations are going to go up. If the thought is that lower income residents will be able to walk to the station and ride to one part of town and then walk to work....well that's going to get blown up too. OKC simply is not built in a way for that either. We'd have to HEAVILY rely on bus connections, which just slows the whole thing down. So if your rail commute ends up eating up 2 hours instead of 30 minutes, you didn't really save on that car. You paid for it with your time. If you want a second job, it's a scheduling challenge. Otherwise it eats into the home life time too.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love to not have to drive in. But we'd have to do a MASSIVE deployment all at the same time to make it worth it at all. I just don't see it happening until the rail can beat a car.

[Laramie]

MAP above shows OTA potential expansion routes between Moore & Norman

LOOP would encircle Oklahoma City connecting turnpikes with the Interstate Interchanges I-240, I-40 & I-44.

Engineering management on behalf of the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority insist the project for the Kickapoo Turnpike’s south extension
is only in its earliest stages. But Norman residents are worried the turnpike expansion plans are a done deal, with hundreds of homes
set to be potentially impacted.

About 1,000 people crammed into CrossPointe Church in Norman on Thursday night to voice their concerns over the new plan.

The project — announced February 22. 2022 by the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and called “Advancing and Connecting Communities and Economies
Safely Statewide,” or ACCESS for short — is a 15-year, $5 billion plan that turnpike officials say will help manage highway congestion,
improve travel times and give drivers a better path to the southeast Oklahoma City metro area.--Oklahoman, 03-05-2022


.

[Plutonic Panda]

Is there a timeline when this might happen? I find it ridiculous that there were estimates commuter rail could be running by the early 2020s and there isn’t even a DEIS for a single line yet. They still need to propose a dedicated funding source. Are they waiting until this thing with Russia, inflation, and high gas prices eases up?

[SEMIweather]

Is there a timeline when this might happen? I find it ridiculous that there were estimates commuter rail could be running by the early 2020s and there isn’t even a DEIS for a single line yet. They still need to propose a dedicated funding source. Are they waiting until this thing with Russia, inflation, and high gas prices eases up?

Lol you would think there would be no better time to promote a potential Regional Transit System than now, gas prices are probably about to clear $4/gallon and Russia's invasion of Ukraine has knocked the pandemic out of the headlines for the first time in two years...

[Plutonic Panda]

Lol you would think there would be no better time to promote a potential Regional Transit System than now, gas prices are probably about to clear $4/gallon and Russia's invasion of Ukraine has knocked the pandemic out of the headlines for the first time in two years...

I was thinking that but then also thinking how many people might oppose this because of high gas prices. As silly as it sounds I know many who think like that.

I think they should just propose it and get it over with. If it fails then focus efforts on the existing bus systems/street car expansion and revisit a metro rail system next decade.

Can OKC issue bonds to expand the streetcar instead of relying on MAPS or the RTA? Similar to how Moore issued bonds to pay for road expansion to be paid back through a small, temporary increase in property taxes.

[HOT ROD]

OK still has the lowest gas tax in the region if not nation. And even if they put a $0.50 + surcharge on it in the OKC RTD area - it'd still be the lowest in the region.

The only concern in my book would be the property taxes, but again - OK is some of the lowest in the region and still would be with transit added.

For Regional Transit:
Initial Capital (initial rail cars and locos, initial commuter bus, O&M yard, transit centers/commuter rail stations, park n ride): State & Federal Transportation appropriation + RTA Property Tax
Renew Capital: RTA Property Tax
Operations and Maintenance: Gas Tax and Fares

should be a no-brainer other than if they should issue bonds to expedite or not. I like this because it does not rely on city members to provide funds for the RTD, they can still assess for transit in their own municipality making the system even more affordable and likely receptive by the taxpaying public.

for instance, OKC should make a sales tax adj (like $0.001) to fund transit operations/maintenance (local bus, streetcar, "BRT") within the city, while the RTA would fund Commuter Rail, Commuter Bus, and local bus (with tax from those cities) outside of OKC. I'd make streetcar free until the next expansion to build ridership and encourage folks to use the RTA, the bus could also be free inside of downtown.

As a peer example: Seattle used to have a downtown free zone paid by the downtown Seattle association, which really helped build ridership and patronage of downtown venues and shoppes. How it worked was fair was paid as you enter the bus for trips into downtown or as you exited the bus for trips out of downtown while trips within the downtown zone were free. This went away with the passage of Sound Transit and the development of our RTD but the free zone was really great and helped build transit here; I'd recommend it for OKC.

[MagzOK]

This WSJ article is very interesting about the pandemic-era existing commuter rail upon the trying dawn of our own.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-pri...mobilewebshare

[stlokc]

That article is very interesting and it mirrors what's happening in St. Louis as well.

The thing is, OKC is so far away from actually inaugurating a train system that I don't think "state of the moment" articles like this impact us too much. My guess is that natural population growth and the ongoing rejiggering of life means that in a few years, these older systems will be back up to pre-pandemic levels, it just may be at different times of the day, or with a different focus, etc.

OKC needs to be forward thinking and really planning for the next generation, not the current one. How will people be working in 2040 or 2050? More will be "from home," sure. But the population will also be probably 25-30% greater, so the actual numbers may wash out. The younger generations are not as excited about driving. The price of gas will probably be higher. I still think that the future of America (not 2025 or 2030, but certainly 2040 or 2050) will increasingly not be one-person-per-vehicle 45 minute drives on a standard highway. Whether that is bus, streetcar, commuter rail or driverless Ubers on their own dedicated lanes, remains to be seen. I would not want to be in the planning business. The world is undergoing huge changes.

[Jersey Boss]

Last night Moore joined MWC in pulling out of RTA.
Moore government wants a bus not rail based public transportation program.

[David]

Do they somehow imagine they are more likely to get that as a non-member of the RTA?

[TheTravellers]

Last night Moore joined MWC in pulling out of RTA.
Moore government wants a bus not rail based public transportation program.

Face - "bye-bye nose"....

[Plutonic Panda]

Regarding Moore: https://freepressokc.com/city-of-moo...ion-authority/

Not really a huge loss. If Edmond or Norman pulled out that would be a real bummer. The RTA needs to get its head out of its ass and make a damn proposal already. I understand we’re in an uncertain economic situation but sitting and doing nothing doesn’t seem to be working. It seems to me that there are talks going on behind closed doors and cities like MWC and Moore are not happy with the idea of more taxes.

I just wish a proposal would be brought forward and put to a vote of the public already. The excitement on this has really worn off.

[catch22]

When the commuter rail line passes through Moore without stopping they will only have themselves to blame.

I recently used the New Mexico Rail Runner this weekend and while I found the frequency to be lacking, it would be a good model to aspire for an OKC commuter line from Norman to Edmond.

[shawnw]

Um, but the RTA is going to run bus service as well I thought?

[David]

Um, but the RTA is going to run bus service as well I thought?

Not to Moore it would seem!