OKC Mayor Race 2014

[bradh]

It was all layed out in front of us...you would have to be a moron to feel "misled". Way too late in the game to cry about it when the timeline is nearing the halfway point. Crap like this is why Tulsa can't ever get anything done.

Jackpot...you lived under a rock in the fall of 2009 if you voted for MAPS 3 and didn't know what you were voting for.

[PhiAlpha]

Jackpot...you lived under a rock in the fall of 2009 if you voted for MAPS 3 and didn't know what you were voting for.

Correct, information was available freaking everywhere from the proponents of MAPS AND plenty of those opposed to it.

[Larry OKC]

is he right that that maps 3 vote was illegal? no he is not

Yes he is, the City's legal guy admits it...watch the video Sid posted in #582

[Larry OKC]

When I voted for the 2007 GO Bond issue, I did't have the option to vote on line items seperately, I am 95% sure it was all together, much like MAPS.

You are incorrect. there were 11 Propositions, voted on separetly

The City of Oklahoma City - 2007 City Bond Election
2007 City Bond Election

PROPOSITION 1 (STREETS) $497,490,000
PROPOSITION 2 (BRIDGES) $19,760,000
PROPOSITION 3 (TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM) $23,590,000
PROPOSITION 4 (DRAINAGE CONTROL SYSTEM) $32,855,000
PROPOSITION 5 (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) $89,755,000
PROPOSITION 6 (FIRE) $15,000,000
PROPOSITION 7 (POLICE) $41,200,000
PROPOSITION 8 (LIBRARIES) $12,845,000
PROPOSITION 9 (CITY MAINTENANCE FACILITIES) $20,165,000
PROPOSITION 10 (TRANSIT) $7,840,000
PROPOSITION 11 (ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT) $75,000,000

[jerrywall]

Yes he is, the City's legal guy admits it...watch the video Sid posted in #582

Nope he said the original maps vote was probably illegal. He did not conclude the maps3 vote was illegal (especially considering he was the one who made the ballot).

[betts]

Ed is clearly demonstrating that he doesn't care about democratic principles, the voters or Oklahoma City. I think we are getting an early view of what a ghastly mayor he would be. He's very good at breaking things, but that's not what I want my leader to do. I want my leader to be a nonpartisan builder of bridges.

[Urban Pioneer]

What is he hoping to gain by this? What does he expect Cornett to do to "fix this"? THE F@#KING VOTE PASSED ALMOST FOUR YEARS AGO AND HAS BEEN COLLECTING TAXES FOR 3.5 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"It comes to my attention that the MAPS 3 Initiative, as passed, is likely unconstitutional."

THEN BRING IT UP BEFORE OR JUST AFTER IT PASSED!

Because this is politics. Shadid wants to plant seeds of doubt and create demons that don't exist. Again, if they do formally pursue an actual injunction and lost, they would be libel for the actual costs in ongoing skewed projects.

The vote was an endorsement by the voters in their duly elected to council to carry out the projects that they promoted.

Call it "log rolling on the backside" if you want, but when it gets down to the "technicality" associated with the vote, it was for capital improvements. And the voters endorsed that. All of MAPS has had to do with holding the Council accountable to the original promises made. That is why we have had so much trouble with Shadid in regard to the streetcar and his ongoing efforts to pillage our funds.

[soonerguru]

Nope he said the original maps vote was probably illegal. He did not conclude the maps3 vote was illegal (especially considering he was the one who made the ballot).

Maybe Ed's lawyers can sue for a refund on MAPS 1.

[soonerguru]

Because this is politics. Shadid wants to plant seeds of doubt and create demons that don't exist. Again, if they do formally pursue an actual injunction and lost, they would be libel for the actual costs in ongoing skewed projects.

The vote was an endorsement by the voters in their duly elected to council to carry out the projects that they promoted.

Call it "log rolling on the backside" if you want, but when it gets down to the "technicality" associated with the vote, it was for capital improvements. And the voters endorsed that. All of MAPS has had to do with holding the Council accountable to the original promises made. That is why we have had so much trouble with Shadid in regard to the streetcar and his ongoing efforts to pillage our funds.

Now everyone who questioned the city council about why they did the ballot the way did has their answer. There would not have been a MAPS 3 if they had written the ballot the way some here have suggested, as it would have been considered "logrolling."

[BDK]

It was hard to find a purpose animating that letter other than publicity.

[Larry OKC]

Nope he said the original maps vote was probably illegal. He did not conclude the maps3 vote was illegal (especially considering he was the one who made the ballot).

Yes he did! Watch the video carefully...he admitted that the correct way would have been to list the items as separate propositions...he went on to say that the Mayor & Council did the log-rolling all-or-nothing ballot as a policy move. I posted a bit ago what the reason the Mayor gave for that policy decision and it had absolutely nothing to do with the legality and the promises made by the Mayor that it would be done the way it is supposed to...

[Larry OKC]

Now everyone who questioned the city council about why they did the ballot the way did has their answer. There would not have been a MAPS 3 if they had written the ballot the way some here have suggested, as it would have been considered "logrolling."

If they listed the items as SEPARATE PROPOSITIONS (just like we do with Bond Issues), it would have been legal, MAPS 3 would have still have happened. And we would know the "will of the voter" as to which projects they did/did not want. Now that doesn't mean that all of the projects would have passed (most likely the C.C. would have failed), but the that is exactly why they did the all-or-nothing ballot...they hoped that support for the projects folks said they wanted would be enough to get it passed. It barely worked.

[betts]

It may come down to a legal decision. I haven't seen anyone weighing in yet here who has a J. D. and/or is a constitutional scholar.

[Steve]

I've been notified that my previous contribution to this thread was off the mark.
That's correct.
So let me state this correctly:
Andrew Speno gets job setting up publicity (interviews with various reporters presenting Slane as an expert on various legal matters) for Slane. Speno gets job working for Fraternal Order of Police, which opposed the MAPS 3 ballot. Speno gets job working for Ed Shadid. Slane interviews Shadid on radio show on an obscure AM station. Shadid questions legality of MAPS 3 ballot. Slane threatens lawsuit.

[betts]

Four years after the fact.... And it's not political?

[betts]

Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Lawyer | David Slane :: Oklahoma City Criminal Defense Lawyer | David Slane

Hmmmm. I don't see constitutional cases on his expertise list. I'm glad to know who I can call to defend me if I'm indicted for racketeering or sex crimes though.

[Wambo36]

Good to have you back in the conversation Steve. As long as you're here connecting dots for the rest of us, how about connecting some in Doug's assertion that your former boss and the mayor conspired to keep any negative reporting about M3 out of print. Now, I know that the majority on here couldn't care less, but it would be interesting to hear about anyway. You know, as long as you're out to champion the truth and all.

[PhiAlpha]

Good to have you back in the conversation Steve. As long as you're here connecting dots for the rest of us, how about connecting some in Doug's assertion that your former boss and the mayor conspired to keep any negative reporting about M3 out of print. Now, I know that the majority on here couldn't care less, but it would be interesting to hear about anyway. You know, as long as you're out to champion the truth and all.

So I take it you're cool with him getting fired for disclosing that here (assuming there is something to disclose)...

And you're right, count me as someone who doesn't care at all about that.

[Wambo36]

So I take it you're cool with him getting fired for disclosing that here (assuming there is something to disclose)...

And you're right, count me as someone who doesn't care at all about that.

No, I don't want him to get fired. I want him to tell us everything from behind the scenes so we can make an informed decision. You know, be an impartial purveyor of info. As it is he just comes off as an information agent for one side. Besides, that guys gone. Steve has nothing to fear from him, right?

[krisb]

It would seem Shadid's point during that city council meeting was that logrolling was not the only option for voting, but was presented as such. I know many citizens who were torn about the MAPS 3 election because they really liked a few of the projects but did not like others. It would have been nice if the citizens could have voted for each project separately since many were not vetted. I don't fault Shadid for not voting if it was out of ambivalence to the process.

[soonerguru]

It would seem Shadid's point during that city council meeting was that logrolling was not the only option for voting, but was presented as such. I know many citizens who were torn about the MAPS 3 election because they really liked a few of the projects but did not like others. It would have been nice if the citizens could have voted for each project separately since many were not vetted. I don't fault Shadid for not voting if it was out of ambivalence to the process.

So you're OK with him having lawyers sue to stop MAPS 3?

And by the way, the whole point of MAPS is to put lots of projects on there; not everyone is going to support the same ones. And, some are simply not sexy, but may pay good dividends, such as the Fairgrounds improvements.

The whole point of MAPS is to put a number of projects on one ballot. Other cities do it the way you suggest and fail. I'll take OKC's track record of success.

Again, you seem to ignore the fact that the mayoral candidate you support is threatening legal action to blow up our city's biggest economic development initiative.

[PhiAlpha]

It would seem Shadid's point during that city council meeting was that logrolling was not the only option for voting, but was presented as such. I know many citizens who were torn about the MAPS 3 election because they really liked a few of the projects but did not like others. It would have been nice if the citizens could have voted for each project separately since many were not vetted. I don't fault Shadid for not voting if it was out of ambivalence to the process.

If he didn't like it, he should have voted no and brought all of these objections to the table 4 years ago. He chose not to vote and waited until halfway through the funding period to do this, he has no credibility in my mind.

Additionally, if the public was truly opposed to it and wanted the projects listed individually, the majority could've voted no and the city could've brought the ballot back listing each project individually. The majority voted yes, that should've been the end of it.

[betts]

It would seem Shadid's point during that city council meeting was that logrolling was not the only option for voting, but was presented as such. I know many citizens who were torn about the MAPS 3 election because they really liked a few of the projects but did not like others. It would have been nice if the citizens could have voted for each project separately since many were not vetted. I don't fault Shadid for not voting if it was out of ambivalence to the process.

Shadid didn't vote in a single election after he moved back to Oklahoma City until he presumably voted for himself for City Council. If he's saying he didn't vote because of ambivalence about the process, that's spin.

[Stew]

So you're OK with him having lawyers sue to stop MAPS 3?

And by the way, the whole point of MAPS is to put lots of projects on there; not everyone is going to support the same ones. And, some are simply not sexy, but may pay good dividends, such as the Fairgrounds improvements.

The whole point of MAPS is to put a number of projects on one ballot. Other cities do it the way you suggest and fail. I'll take OKC's track record of success.

Again, you seem to ignore the fact that the mayoral candidate you support is threatening legal action to blow up our city's biggest economic development initiative.

Perhaps he is trying to save us from the biggest economic blunder in OKC's history. People can and do see that way as well. Regardless of opinions on maps 3 its probably safe to say that the only way to defeat Cornett is to turn his greatest strength (MAPS 3) into his greatest weakness which appears is exactly what Shaddid is attempting to do. I doubt he'll pull it off but it's probably his only hope.

[bradh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this goes to court, as I've read here, is this how it'll play out:

- tax is suspended
- goes to court
- if the suit fails, the plaintiffs are liable for lost sales tax revenue, and any other damages caused by suspension of projects

If that's the case, I wonder if as someone said this is nothing more than a publicity stunt. It'd take some huge balls to take that suit to court and then lose.