Panasonic Battery Plant

[Bellaboo]

The hydro power from GRDA is very important for this project.

[BG918]

The hydro power from GRDA is very important for this project.

Utility rate hydro power and water through GRDA. Also wind power through PSO.

[PhiAlpha]

Yeah, the problem with that logic though is that every support company also receives incentives. The "loss leader" strategy only works at the grocery store.

Alright it’s a terrible idea to give anyone incentives. What do you suggest we do to lure companies here when competing against other states who are handing out the massive incentives that you think are a bad idea?

[Scott5114]

Alright it’s a terrible idea to give anyone incentives. What do you suggest we do to lure companies here when competing against other states who are handing out the massive incentives that you think are a bad idea?

The way to compete is to invest that money in Oklahoma itself to make it a better place to live. I would be really surprised if California or New York were handing out incentives to get companies to move there; they move there because they want to be in California or New York. If we want to be successful, we have to make people want to be in Oklahoma instead of bribing them to come here.

When the only time the state makes the national news because of a tornado, some extreme culture wars legislation at the Capitol, or something like the Idabel sheriff fiasco that's currently ongoing, a lot of people wouldn't move here even if you paid them shinty-six squidrillion dollars. When talking to people from other states I generally find that they don't know much about Oklahoma or what it's like here, they only know what they see on the news, and it's never stuff that's flattering about the state. If we seriously want to succeed, we need to change that. If success doesn't matter enough to us to make us want to change, we need to just admit that and stop pretending like bribes are going to do anything.

[chssooner]

The way to compete is to invest that money in Oklahoma itself to make it a better place to live. I would be really surprised if California or New York were handing out incentives to get companies to move there; they move there because they want to be in California or New York. If we want to be successful, we have to make people want to be in Oklahoma instead of bribing them to come here.

When the only time the state makes the national news because of a tornado, some extreme culture wars legislation at the Capitol, or something like the Idabel sheriff fiasco that's currently ongoing, a lot of people wouldn't move here even if you paid them shinty-six squidrillion dollars. When talking to people from other states I generally find that they don't know much about Oklahoma or what it's like here, they only know what they see on the news, and it's never stuff that's flattering about the state. If we seriously want to succeed, we need to change that. If success doesn't matter enough to us to make us want to change, we need to just admit that and stop pretending like bribes are going to do anything.

New York hands them out like candy.

[Just the facts]

New York hands them out like candy.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that no one wants to live in New York either. The people with the resources to get out are getting out as fast as they can and corporations have been leaving NYC for decades.

[jedicurt]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that no one wants to live in New York either. The people with the resources to get out are getting out as fast as they can and corporations have been leaving NYC for decades.

once again, the facts say the opposite. NYC has seen slow but steady increase in population for the past 25 years, year after year. in fact over the past 8 years, it has seen an increase faster than new housing.

[chssooner]

once again, the facts say the opposite. NYC has seen slow but steady increase in population for the past 25 years, year after year. in fact over the past 8 years, it has seen an increase faster than new housing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...on?wprov=sfla1

I know, Wikipedia. But it says they are 49th in net domestic migration. Makes sense they are high in international migration.

[BoulderSooner]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...on?wprov=sfla1

I know, Wikipedia. But it says they are 49th in net domestic migration. Makes sense they are high in international migration.

in this case the data is directly from https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...ate-total.html

the census .. NY and California have bled population so far this decade. ..

[Jersey Boss]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...on?wprov=sfla1

I know, Wikipedia. But it says they are 49th in net domestic migration. Makes sense they are high in international migration.

You are using state migration stats to refute a city specefic post.
NYC population gained .37% in 2023. Post #582 is accurate.

[fortpatches]

in this case the data is directly from https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...ate-total.html

the census .. NY and California have bled population so far this decade. ..

once again, the facts say the opposite. NYC has seen slow but steady increase in population for the past 25 years, year after year. in fact over the past 8 years, it has seen an increase faster than new housing.

Just so everyone is clear:
@BoulderSooner uses the phrase "so far this decade" in order to limit the timeframe being discussed to just the last 3 years for the state of New York; whereas @jedicurt is looking at overall trends over the past 25 years for the NYC MSA.

From 2020-2022, NY lost 431,145 population (-2.1%).
From 2019-2022, NY gained 214,020 population (+1.1%).

The numbers significantly change between 2019-2020.....for some reason.... I wonder what went on during that time.... /s

For the past decade (2012-2022), NY has gained 102,789 (+0.5%).
For the past 25 hears (1997-2022), NY has gained 1,533,967 (+8.5%).

So, it really seems like your discussion isn't really about what their population is or how it has changed, but what is the relevant time period to look at when drawing some conclusion from the population changes.
For any selection of a range of years ending in 2022, only the years 2020 and 2021 result in negative population changes.

[Jersey Boss]

^ Problamatic to compare NYC stats to NY state stats

[BoulderSooner]

Just so everyone is clear:
@BoulderSooner uses the phrase "so far this decade" in order to limit the timeframe being discussed to just the last 3 years.

just to be clear .. i only linked the source of the data that @chssooner was referring too ..

[PhiAlpha]

The way to compete is to invest that money in Oklahoma itself to make it a better place to live. I would be really surprised if California or New York were handing out incentives to get companies to move there; they move there because they want to be in California or New York. If we want to be successful, we have to make people want to be in Oklahoma instead of bribing them to come here.

When the only time the state makes the national news because of a tornado, some extreme culture wars legislation at the Capitol, or something like the Idabel sheriff fiasco that's currently ongoing, a lot of people wouldn't move here even if you paid them shinty-six squidrillion dollars. When talking to people from other states I generally find that they don't know much about Oklahoma or what it's like here, they only know what they see on the news, and it's never stuff that's flattering about the state. If we seriously want to succeed, we need to change that. If success doesn't matter enough to us to make us want to change, we need to just admit that and stop pretending like bribes are going to do anything.

LOL. We aren’t California or New York…they have a ton of natural advantages that we do not in the middle of the country. Even then I would I highly doubt they don’t provide incentives to companies looking to move there. Regardless…Texas, Kansas, and other surrounding states are our biggest competition. How do we beat them…especially Texas…without providing the same or better incentives. Why would a company come here over Texas if Texas is willing to pay them more?

[Just the facts]

^ Problamatic to compare NYC stats to NY state stats

Yeah - NY is not NYC, which leads to some of the confusion.

[king183]

LOL. We aren’t California or New York…they have a ton of natural advantages that we do not in the middle of the country. Even then I would I highly doubt they don’t provide incentives to companies looking to move there. Regardless…Texas, Kansas, and other surrounding states are our biggest competition. How do we beat them…especially Texas…without providing the same or better incentives. Why would a company come here over Texas if Texas is willing to pay them more?

A company may come here over Texas, even if Texas is willing to pay them more, because we have a better workforce; a stronger primary and secondary education system and a stronger investment in our institutions of higher education, creating a better educated populous; more investments in higher quality of life that make people want to move and live here; a more predictable and less burdensome regulatory environment; better infrastructure, such as airports, rail, and ports; cheaper and more reliable electricity; etc.

Unfortunately, the "we" in the paragraph above doesn't apply to Oklahoma relative to Texas. They beat us on each of those items, except cheaper and more reliable electricity. But if we did win on those, I think more companies would choose us over Texas, even if they paid more.

[chssooner]

A company may come here over Texas, even if Texas is willing to pay them more, because we have a better workforce; a stronger primary and secondary education system and a stronger investment in our institutions of higher education, creating a better educated populous; more investments in higher quality of life that make people want to move and live here; a more predictable and less burdensome regulatory environment; better infrastructure, such as airports, rail, and ports; cheaper and more reliable electricity; etc.

Unfortunately, the "we" in the paragraph above doesn't apply to Oklahoma relative to Texas. They beat us on each of those items, except cheaper and more reliable electricity. But if we did win on those, I think more companies would choose us over Texas, even if they paid more.

They aren't that much higher ranked in overall education. That isn't a deciding factor. What is, is that they have more people, so those similar metrics are applied over 30 million people, as opposed to 4 million.

[fortpatches]

Among people aged 25+, as a percentage relative to the US rates at large, Oklahoma has 29% less Doctorate attainment (e.g., 0.95% OK vs 1.34% US), 32.4% less Professional degree attainment, 28.5% less Master's degree attainment, 13.2% less Bachelor's degree attainment, and 9.3% less Associate's degree attainment.
We do have 13.3% more "Some College" educational attainment, 14.9% more High School Attainment and 13.5% more "Some High School" attainment.

Comparing Texas to Oklahoma. Texas is ranked 29 in Bachelor's degree attainment, Oklahoma 43. Texas is ranked 36 in Very Advanced Degree attainment (professional / doctoral degrees), Oklahoma is 47.

[Just the facts]

That is probably a result of college grads leaving the state after graduation - many going to Texas. I moved out of Oklahoma 24 hours after receiving my degree.

[mugofbeer]

Yeah, the problem with that logic though is that every support company also receives incentives. The "loss leader" strategy only works at the grocery store.

Can you back that up? I don't believe you're correct in your assertion of support businesses and incentives.

[mugofbeer]

Among people aged 25+, as a percentage relative to the US rates at large, Oklahoma has 29% less Doctorate attainment (e.g., 0.95% OK vs 1.34% US), 32.4% less Professional degree attainment, 28.5% less Master's degree attainment, 13.2% less Bachelor's degree attainment, and 9.3% less Associate's degree attainment.
We do have 13.3% more "Some College" educational attainment, 14.9% more High School Attainment and 13.5% more "Some High School" attainment.

Comparing Texas to Oklahoma. Texas is ranked 29 in Bachelor's degree attainment, Oklahoma 43. Texas is ranked 36 in Very Advanced Degree attainment (professional / doctoral degrees), Oklahoma is 47.

Just chirping out raw statistics gives a false view of reality. While we all agree OKs education and teacher pay levels should be better, the kind of work done in OK doesn't necessarily require large numbers of PHDs and MBAs. Neither does assembling evs and auto battaries. People who wish to live in a particular area have to aim their education toward what work is available in that area.

[dcsooner]

Just chirping out raw statistics gives a false view of reality. While we all agree OKs education and teacher pay levels should be better, the kind of work done in OK doesn't necessarily require large numbers of PHDs and MBAs. Neither does assembling evs and auto battaries. People who wish to live in a particular area have to aim their education toward what work is available in that area.

That is Oklahoma. Aspire low, stick with the status quo, we don’t want no stinking PHDs prolly too liberal. No sir we stick with our dirty O and G. Just give us manual labor, no real thinkin required. Sad

[chssooner]

That is Oklahoma. Aspire low, stick with the status quo, we don’t want no stinking PHDs prolly too liberal. No sir we stick with our dirty O and G. Just give us manual labor, no real thinkin required. Sad

Please, please stop. No one likes this hyperbole. It is unnecessary and doesn't help anyone, except you trying to make yourself seem edgy or cool on a message board.

[king183]

Please, please stop. No one likes this hyperbole. It is unnecessary and doesn't help anyone, except you trying to make yourself seem edgy or cool on a message board.

Don’t get your hopes up. In all my years following this board, DCSooner has never made a meaningful contribution to a discussion. He has one post and that’s it. The words may change slightly, but it’s the exact same non contributing junk.

[chssooner]

Don’t get your hopes up. In all my years following this board, DCSooner has never made a meaningful contribution to a discussion. He has one post and that’s it. The words may change slightly, but it’s the exact same non contributing junk.

I am not even saying he is 100% wrong. But hyperbole for effect and mockery are not helpful, and just make him seem arrogant.

Rather than helpful, constructive criticism, which can spur dialogue on here and other places, a lot of posters on here like to just bash the city and state mercilessly, and using stupid hyperbole and negative tones and phrases.