Alley's End (4th & EK Gaylord)

[Pete]

Also, the main difference between the two responses is that Alley's End incorporates retail/commercial where Milhaus only offers housing, which is similar to Bomasada's original proposal.

[HangryHippo]

I like Alley's End but the project needs to be taller near the intersection. The previous proposal was 8 stories - this one should be as well.'Pete - what happened to the bank that was going in the previous iteration?

[skanaly]

Do we just not have a market for mid-rise/high-rise residential development? With the population on the rise you would think we would start seeing some movement. The regency tower is the only high-rise residential building dt, and even though they have done a lot of remodeling, it's still outdated. Great proposals, but was really hoping for something bigger, especially with this location.

[baralheia]

Alley's End is definitely the winner of the two, in my view... though I wish it came out to the corner a little more, and wish there was more of a prominent office component to the plan more like the previous Rose Rock proposal. But even so, Alley's End is definitely a winner. Milhaus's proposal, while containing more units overall, is just incredibly generic and boring and not a downtown-quality project in my personal view.

[AP]

Alley's End is the better proposal. It almost seems too good to be true, though. How are they going to make 71% affordable housing work?

[HangryHippo]

Milhaus, if I recall correctly, had a high-rise proposal for the Stage Center lot that looked infinitely better than what they've proposed here. Their proposal could be plopped down anywhere.But to echo skanaly's question - is there no market? Could they not add office or a hotel or move some of the units to the intersection to give it a poor man's Flatiron Building feel? Developers are allowed to build housing above 5 stories.

[catch22]

Alley's Edge is cool, but do we really need a building shaped in the letters VD across the street from COKC ring?

[jonny d]

Milhaus, if I recall correctly, had a high-rise proposal for the Stage Center lot that looked infinitely better than what they've proposed here. Their proposal could be plopped down anywhere.But to echo skanaly's question - is there no market? Could they not add office or a hotel or move some of the units to the intersection to give it a poor man's Flatiron Building feel? Developers are allowed to build housing above 5 stories.

Most people my age (late 20's early 30's) that I know are getting to the point of wanting families, and wanting a yard. Granted, I am not a great sample, but maybe you are right about the market for high-rise housing just not being there. I think it will come, but might be closer to the park and the CC. I like Alley's End for what it is. I wish it were 2 or 3 stories taller, but the project itself looks great!

[king183]

Do we just not have a market for mid-rise/high-rise residential development? With the population on the rise you would think we would start seeing some movement. The regency tower is the only high-rise residential building dt, and even though they have done a lot of remodeling, it's still outdated. Great proposals, but was really hoping for something bigger, especially with this location.

Correct. There is no market for a mid rise or high rise residential development. It just too tough to make the economics works right now. These type of projects, though, are what will ultimate lead to the creation of that market as more people choose to make downtown their home. Creating that market also requires making downtown a livable destination instead of the ghost town paradise of parking garages it’s slowly becoming.

[dankrutka]

mid-rise infill > high-rise infill for OKC, IMHO. There is so much infill needed that I'd much rather see three 6 floor structures than one 18 floor one.

I love Alley's End. It would really bridge the gap between downtown and Deep Deuce as much as is possible with the rail in between.

[soonerguru]

mid-rise infill > high-rise infill for OKC, IMHO. There is so much infill needed that I'd much rather see three 6 floor structures than one 18 floor one.

I love Alley's End. It would really bridge the gap between downtown and Deep Deuce as much as is possible with the rail in between.

"ALLEY'S END?" I like the design better than the alternative but can these people please hire some branding experts? Geez. How embarrassing. THERE ISN'T EVEN AN ALLEY THERE.

[OKC_Chipper]

"ALLEY'S END?" I like the design better than the alternative but can these people please hire some branding experts? Geez. How embarrassing. THERE ISN'T EVEN AN ALLEY THERE.

It’s at the end of Automobile Alley....

[David]

Alley's End, please and thank you.

mid-rise infill > high-rise infill for OKC, IMHO. There is so much infill needed that I'd much rather see three 6 floor structures than one 18 floor one.

Amen.

[shawnw]

The milhaus one is completely uninspiring. I wish one of them would have (I know the city wouldn't have gone for it) proposed building over 3rd Street and incorporating the smaller bit of land.

[shavethewhales]

Alley's Edge is cool, but do we really need a building shaped in the letters VD across the street from COKC ring?

Sounds like the beginnings of an exciting new OKC district!



Seriously though, the milhous proposal is so uninspired that you could set anything next to it and it would look great. They both feature way to many street facing blank walls.

[bombermwc]

Alley's Edge is cool, but do we really need a building shaped in the letters VD across the street from COKC ring?

OMG i about died laughing at this...HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Rover]

Do we just not have a market for mid-rise/high-rise residential development? With the population on the rise you would think we would start seeing some movement. The regency tower is the only high-rise residential building dt, and even though they have done a lot of remodeling, it's still outdated. Great proposals, but was really hoping for something bigger, especially with this location.

It doesn’t seem that there are not enough people here willing to pay what it costs to do mid/high-rise residential. The numbers don’t work. This is a value driven market, not an amenities one.

[Rover]

Milhaus doesn’t seem to really want this.... not with that basic cookie cutter proposal. Any new arch school graduate could design that proposal quickly and without thought. They look to be going through the motions so they keep themselves in the city eye, but not bold enough to actually compete.

[Pete]

It's simple math.

You cannot charge enough rent to offset construction costs for new high-rise. And that's a direct byproduct of our affordable housing market; people aren't going to pay the associated premium just to live on upper floors.

And in the meantime, there are several existing options: Founders Tower, Tiffany, Park Harvey, Regency Tower and soon to be First National.

[PaddyShack]

I would have loved to see something similar to the Glories Shopping Center in Barcelona on this lot. Then they could stack any number of floors of residential and office on top.

Here is the Google Maps location for those that are interested:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gl...39!4d2.1914859

[Pete]

Retail in the core is struggling as is traditional retail in general.

Several business have closed and I expect to see more in the coming year.

No developer is going to build a new project with more than a small amount of retail and restaurant space, at least anywhere near downtown.



Not aiming that at you PaddyShack, just an opportunity to make a point that has become obvious in the last year.

[PaddyShack]

Retail in the core is struggling as is traditional retail in general.

Several business have closed and I expect to see more in the coming year.

No developer is going to build a new project with more than a small amount of retail and restaurant space, at least anywhere near downtown.



Not aiming that at you PaddyShack, just an opportunity to make a point that has become obvious in the last year.

Oh I understand, I was simply adding an idea from a place I saw in Barcelona. Even as far fetched as it would be here.

[Pete]

I'm really worried about the retail in Auto Alley and Midtown, which is about all we have in the core.

People need to patronize these places or several will go away, and soon.

And developers know this and will be including less retail/restaurant space in the near future.


Almost all that BOK Park Plaza space is empty, Devon never really tried with their street-level space, fair amount of vacancy in Deep Deuce, never really took hold in Bricktown (with a few exceptions), Steelyard space is still empty, same at Lift, etc., etc.

Any idea that the streetcar would be a boon has now faded.

[Anonymous.]

Milhause proposal is obviously not up to par. Alleys End is decent and on the right track. But I do not trust developers who build in "phases". Plus This phasing includes #1 being the two buildings furthest from the parking, and then Phase 2 is building a structure between the existing Phase 1 buildings and the garage AND building on top of the garage at the same time. That sounds like a complete nightmare for people who just newly moved in.

Unless there is strict requirements making them build the entire project at once, or a massive penalty to delaying or not even building Phase 2. Then I say accept neither of these. This property is too important.

I would like to see this developed with a chance of an aesthetically urban grocer of the sort.

[puffin88]

oof hard pass on both of these