LifeChurchTV

[PUGalicious]

<----- [ducking out of the way of the anticipated flaming]

[mwmcl]

I'll sit back and eat my popcorn and watch all this nonesense arrive at some unintended but well meaning destination.

And to further aid in that fun-filled adventure, I have a question for the .tv's in the audience.

Why franchise? Why not package your church model and let other purchase it and then run with it?

Does LifeChurch.tv franchise so that Craig can control each and every churches operations? I can't think of another reason.

[jbrown84]

Exactly. Like I said, I think Albany probably can be reached in a very positive way by the LifeChurch model, but why not PLANT A CHURCH--help get it started with the same format and style of LifeChurch so that people can be reached the same way--then let it go on it's own?

[Patrick]

Exactly. Like I said, I think Albany probably can be reached in a very positive way by the LifeChurch model, but why not PLANT A CHURCH--help get it started with the same format and style of LifeChurch so that people can be reached the same way--then let it go on it's own?

Ummm....Because then Life Church OKC couldn't reap the financial reward. Duh!

[jbrown84]

Izzouch!

[BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe]

I drove by the new one on Expressway and Macarthur. I could not believe they had a store in the church.

I can only imagine what they sell in there. Pastor Craig keychains, coffee mugs, t-shirts, calendars, DVD's, antenna balls, bobblehead dolls, bumper stickers and every other gawdy thing you see in souviener shop. I wonder it they have a life size cardboard cutout of him in there?

Now there is a novel concept. Not only can you suck money out people's pocket through tithing, you can market the church just like a professional sports team.

What is next? The buy your way in to heaven program. I can see the TV commerical now. Announcer: "Just like the days prior to the reformation you can buy a place in heaven for only 200 monthly installments of 149.99."

Okay for everyone who did not have a chuckle at this joke feel free to drive down to your favorite discount store and buy a sense of humor. In Wal-Mart there on Aisle 5.

Anyway.... My point is church is not a place to shop, buy coffee, cookies or pastries. It is not a place that rivals the ford center or a trendy Bricktown nightclub.

In my eyes the church is a holy sanctuary to hear the word of god through bible study and the sermon of a man or woman who has made it there mission to convey the word of god. The only thing he/she needs is a voice and a microphone. No powerpoint presentations, laserlight shows, fog, big screen TV's, nor a 12 piece band and ten girl chorus line.

Church should be a place where you focus your time on god and his word. It is not a place you go to be entertained.

That is just my opinion. I am not claiiming to be right or wrong. I was raised as a catholic and that is probably why I see church in that light.

[PUGalicious]

Okay for everyone who did not have a chuckle at this joke feel free to drive down to your favorite discount store and buy a sense of humor. In Wal-Mart there on Aisle 5.

Anyway.... My point is church is not a place to shop, buy coffee, cookies or pastries. It is not a place that rivals the ford center or a trendy Bricktown nightclub.

In my eyes the church is a holy sanctuary to hear the word of god through bible study and the sermon of a man or woman who has made it there mission to convey the word of god. The only thing he/she needs is a voice and a microphone. No powerpoint presentations, laserlight shows, fog, big screen TV's, nor a 12 piece band and ten girl chorus line.

Church should be a place where you focus your time on god and his word. It is not a place you go to be entertained.

That is just my opinion. I am not claiiming to be right or wrong. I was raised as a catholic and that is probably why I see church in that light.

I have a sense of humor. It just wasn't funny. Not even remotely.

While your underlying premise may have some valid points... and I might even agree to a degree that there seems to be an encroachment of merchants in the temple... the way you chose to present your point invalidated it on its face.

[metro]

Ummm....Because then Life Church OKC couldn't reap the financial reward. Duh!

Actually Patrick and friends if you cared to take the time to know much about Lifechurch.tv you would know that it helps with tons of church plants each year (ones that it doesn't put lifechurch.tv name or reap any "financial rewards" that you speak of). I'll give you just two fairly local examples, I won't include all the missionary/mission trip plants we do overseas. Journey church in Norman and H20 church in Ada were "traditional church plants" that you speak of, not to mention countless others. Furthermore, the OPEN section of our website provides any church in the world free resources and media that we provide at no cost and reap no reward other than the fact of personal joy of providing others with tools so they can reach others for Jesus Christ. The church mails DVD's, training materials and resources, without those churches having to use the lifechurch.tv "brand" all free of charge.

[jbrown84]

So what is the difference between your church plants and your franchises? How do you decide that Journey Church is a plant instead of LifeChurch Norman, for example?

[BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe]

Then Tomorrow we take over the world....

[mwmcl]

So what is the difference between your church plants and your franchises? How do you decide that Journey Church is a plant instead of LifeChurch Norman, for example?

This is basically the same question I've been asking for several pages now. Why not give it away instead of Franchise?

I'll continue to wait.

[jbrown84]

I would guess it came down to the campus leaders wanting to split off as opposed to staying part of the LC network.

[Patrick]

I never said that Lifechurch wasn't involved in church planting. What I will say is that I wish they'd only do that, and skip the multi-campus approach.

It is true that when you franchise out a church, you hang onto the financial rewards from each franchise. If you just church plant, each planted church is its own entity, not under the Life Church financial umbrella.

That being said, I even question my own church (Northwest Baptist) for following Life Church's trend of multiple campuses. We have a "North campus" out on NW Expressway that meets in the Express Events Center. And, our home base reaps the financial rewards of tithes given by members at the "north campus," whereas if we just planted a new church in NW OKC it would be a separate entity, with its own finances, etc. I personally am opposed to our north campus, and would have preferred we spend money planting a new church in NW OKC, or helping out a nearby church like Highland Hills Baptist Church, which is located very close to our "north campus."

[jbrown84]

The difference is that Craig preaches at both campuses in person. And actually the North Campus is still very much benefiting from the financial resources of the Central Campus.

[metro]

I still don't see where in the Bible it says it is a sin to combine and use resources for a greater good. Some call it franchising, others call it evangelism. Either way it benefits both entities and ultimately the Kingdom of God. Your main campus benefits from the tithes of the North NW Baptist campus and vice versa. They also both benefit from mutual resources so they can cut overhead and thus use the money for other things. Although all of Lifechurch.tv's 15 or so campuses (and I'm willing to bet your churches N. campus) has their own site staff, most of lifechurch.tv's employees are centrally located so all sites (including church plants or any other church in the world who wants to use the resources for free) can benefit them. Now take your perspective, if each lifechurch.tv campus, church plant, and sister churches were its own entity, they would probably have their own much larger staff and duplicating resources. What's wrong for streamlining churches and making them more efficient? Businesses do it all the time, not that I'm saying we should "commercialize" churches to a certain extent, but as long as it doesn't dilute the message, then I see nothing wrong with making an efficient organization. I'm open and willing to listen to the other side (most know I've been flamed regularly for it), but show me in the Bible where it is a sin to streamline and make an effective organization, etc.

[kmf563]

This is the song that never ends......

Nice to see I haven't looked at this thread in days and I come back to exactly the same never ending lambchop conversation that was there when I left. It's like a soap opera.

"Life Church sucks"
"No it doesn't"
"Yes it does"
"No it doesn't"

"Mom, he's touching me"
"She started it"

Gawwwd people....If you want to know more about Life Church WHY DON'T YOU ACTUALLY GO TO ONE. Their website is pretty self explanatory also. If you don't like them then don't go. If you like pancakes go to IHOP. If you like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain.......

Wait, what were we talking about??
Oh yea...

I just wanted to share that I couldn't tell you what songs we sang at church Sunday, but I do remember the sermon. It was very good. And guess what...it wasn't even Craig that did it!!! Imagine that. Life Church does still exist when he isn't there, and people actually came and listened. hmmm...

[jbrown84]

Metro, no one ever said you were sinning by franchising. I don't know where you got that.

[jbrown84]

kmf, the point of a message board is to discuss topics. We are simply discussing LifeChurch's (and other churches) strategies and methods. Currently we are discussing the issue of church planting.

[Tim]

Okey doke...I've kept my nose out of this one, but I feel compelled to add that franchising churches has been around for a long, long time. The Roman Catholic church perfected the technique, and while it helped spread Christianity around the globe, it has had some negative consequences. (and please don't tell me that Catholics are not Christians)

[kmf563]

kmf, the point of a message board is to discuss topics.

really? wow. thanks.

[Martin]

imagine that. life church does still exist when he isn't there, and people actually came and listened.

...and still can't use scripture to back up its doctrine. -M

[kmf563]

ummm, yea there was...
This week the scripture was Luke 15

[kmf563]

guess you mean for the entire church doctrine or being huh...guess that's what i get for half way paying attention. oops! sorry.

I didn't realize that every single thing a church does has to be a direct order from God and based on doctrine. Has anybody ever found the scripture that says why Church of the Servant has to spend millions of dollars to bring plants inside the church?? Just curious. And thank you tim for butting in (although you will regret it, i assure you - i'm kicking myself daily) but I believe he is right about the Catholics. And gee what a connection since Life Church is Catholic based...hmmm.

[PUGalicious]

Is biting sarcasm part of the Lifechurch doctrine? I guess I missed that lesson when I was attending there. What's its scriptural foundation?

[Martin]

kmf... you might tone down the sarcasm a bit, it's kinda hard to see where you're driving at... i (for one) can't tell where you're being serious and where you're being facetious, especially around the 'catholic' section of your response.

i'll agree that there are certain matters where the church is given liberty in matters that are not directly dictated by the word of god. while i'd say that spending millions on plants isn't really a great allocation of assets and i would seriously question any congregation who sets their priorities on such a thing, i'd say that it's not really a doctrinal issue in itself.

what i'm referring to is the lack of substance in lifechurcher's arguments to support some of the core things they (and other evangelicals) believe. i believe we had a discussion in this thread a few weeks ago about lc doctrine and the best argument you could present in defense of lc's beliefs was "i don't read it that way." you weren't able to show any example from scripture supporting your argument. while lc reaches alot of people through it's methods, i don't think that it fosters a good understanding of what the scriptures say. -M