Alley's End (4th & EK Gaylord)

[dcsooner]

Amazon seems to be handing out 1,000's of jobs to cities all the time (see Nashville or Portland, for example). I am still not sure why this city and state think only O&G companies need downtown office space. Why don't they target big banks or tech companies? Just mind-boggling.

+1000
Manufacturing (Durable and Non Durable)

[HOT ROD]

We need a true education campus downtown, like the Auraria Campus in Denver. Also, OKCCC needs more than just one location.

Just an idea, the City of Seattle alone has:

Seattle Central Community College (Capital Hill, near downtown)
N Seattle Community College
S Seattle Community College
Highline Community College

The metro area has: Everett Community College and Edmonds Community College in the north, the HUGE Bellevue College in the East, and numerous in the south. That's in addition to the University of Washington (3 campuses: Seattle, Tacoma, and Bothell/NE Metro), Seattle University (also Cap Hill next to downtown), and Seattle Pacific University and several more privates and vo-techs. This shows a commitment to Education, not even counting the many colleges in Tacoma area. Seattle has 710,000 people, 3.7 M Seattle-Tacoma metro.

OKC is very lacking. OKC has OKCCC and Rose State(MWC) for community college, OU (Norman, OKC), OCU, UCO (Edmond), SNU (Bethany), and OSU-OKC for universities, Metro-Tech and Francis Tuttle for vo-techs and that's it. Pretty good on universities actually but not on lower level post-secondary.

I'm not saying OKC should be just like Seattle but there are many things that Seattle does/has that OKC could use for benchmarking, esp since Seattle is one of the poster cities for the US right now. I'd start with a new OCCC in downtown or even next to OUSC for children not score enough to get to university.

If OKC made that type of commitment to education - real education that reaches people, I'm sure OKC could get similar lovin' that the poster cities get. It's really the only thing those cities have OKC beat on.

[HangryHippo]

OKC needs what TCC is for Tulsa.

[dankrutka]

Amazon seems to be handing out 1,000's of jobs to cities all the time (see Nashville or Portland, for example). I am still not sure why this city and state think only O&G companies need downtown office space. Why don't they target big banks or tech companies? Just mind-boggling.

Good point, which begs the question: Why does no one in the city pick up their Amazon job handouts?

[RustytheBailiff]

OKC has OKCCC and Rose State(MWC) for community college, OU (Norman, OKC), OCU, UCO (Edmond), SNU (Bethany), and OSU-OKC for universities, Metro-Tech and Francis Tuttle for vo-techs and that's it. Pretty good on universities actually but not on lower level post-secondary.

Missed a few:

Four-year
Langston University (Langston)
Oklahoma State University–Oklahoma City
University of Central Oklahoma (Edmond)
University of Oklahoma (Norman)
University of Science and Arts of Oklahoma (Chickasha)
Two-year
Oklahoma City Community College
Redlands Community College (El Reno)
Rose State College (Midwest City)
Private
American Christian College and Seminary
DeVry University - Oklahoma City campus
Downtown College Consortium[1]
Heartland Baptist Bible College[2]
Hillsdale Free-Will Baptist College (Moore)
Metropolitan College
Mid-America Christian University
Oklahoma Baptist College
Oklahoma Baptist University (Shawnee)
Oklahoma Christian University
Oklahoma City University
Southern Nazarene University (Bethany)
Southwestern Christian University
University of Phoenix - Oklahoma City campuses

[jonny d]

OKC needs what TCC is for Tulsa.

OKC has Rose State and Redlands in the near vicinity, as well. You have almost all of OKC covered with those 3 schools. UCO is up north (that may be where a community college could go, there or Norman).

[shawnw]

So do we expect a bidder to request that third be closed in order to connect that tiny bit at the bottom or should we expect some interesting connectivity over the street?

[Pete]

I'm sure they won't ask to close that street, just put some sort of public art on that odd parcel.

[EBAH]

Tech companies are drawn to centers of education and many are start-ups that come from high-level colleges.

Until we invest in education we are always going to lag in tech.

OMG This is SO TRUE.

A couple of things in response to this conversation.

I work for a very high tech oilfield software company and a couple of observations of the last couple from the last couple of years directly apply here:

1) Those oil company office tower jobs ARE NOT COMING BACK. Modern E&P companies have a TINY permanent office work force, Echo is actually a really good example. Modern production companies mostly consist of a minimal staff of specialists, geologists, tech / data science people, and finance people that are crazy good at what they do. They get venture capital backing, buy existing assets, optimize, improve production prove reserves and then SELL, shut down the operation, start it again under a new name or the same name with a number after it and repeat the cycle. A lot of their field operations may be outsourced or on a contractor basis and many of them may only last a few years before the divest and repeat action. Some get to be pretty big, but not like Devon big. Also, the vast majority are located in other markets with better VC access, like Houston or Denver. Most of them look like software startups more than oil companies and their offices reflect that too. It's a wildly different world in E&P and honestly companies like Chesapeake kicked it off and in the process kind of became dinosaurs themselves.

2) LOL at the idea of filling those towers with tech jobs. Software companies are small-medium sized for the most part and pay very very well, they follow talent, not cheap real estate (many don't even need real estate). As someone who works for a company trying to hire developers and other tech professionals constantly in OKC, the talent base is literally not here. Our University programs are pretty out of date by the standards of modern software companies and there just isn't the kind of intellectual infrastructure here to support a large tech operation. I mean, my company is pretty small, and we hire every qualified dev in Oklahoma we can find, but like 2/3 of our dev force is out of state or even the country. OKC is a LONG way off of having a nationally significant tech economy, a lot of the people that are good that work in it now are remote employees working for out of state companies, likely got their education out of state and either returned home for cheap living or to follow a spouse or partner (or raise kids).

Honestly the big vacancies downtown may be one of OKC's trickiest problems to solve.

[jn1780]

Even the tech industry doesn't pay as well as it used to. Companies have been more than willing to offshore developer jobs or bring in cheaper employees on H1B visas and no its not because they are not meeting demand. They have laid off several more experience developers here in the US in recent years in favor of cheaper workers.

The company that recently moved into The Plow building: Rural Sourcing actually built a business module around this fact. True, it is nice to have developers in your own timezone who can speak your own language fluently, but its difficult for companies to pass up the cost savings of offshoring.

[HOT ROD]

does OKC really have big vacancies downtown?

I thought the CBRE report had downtown as the strongest market and growing in the metro but that the suburbs (esp NW OKC) was having the biggest vacancies. The only vacancies I can think of downtown are 1/3 of BOKPP and some of Leadership Square and BankFirst. That probably totals less than 500k square feet vacant

[Pete]

does OKC really have big vacancies downtown?

I thought the CBRE report had downtown as the strongest market and growing in the metro but that the suburbs (esp NW OKC) was having the biggest vacancies. The only vacancies I can think of downtown are 1/3 of BOKPP and some of Leadership Square and BankFirst. That probably totals less than 500k square feet vacant

Almost all of SandRidge Tower, 2/3 of BOK Park Plaza, big hole now at Leadership Square (Enable moved for BOKPP), Pioneer Building still completely empty, 2/3 of Parkside, will be lots of space at BancFirst Tower even after they move leaving their current downtown building empty and Devon Tower is about 1/3 empty now. Even the old BOK space from which they moved is still sitting there. And this doesn't include the 20-story Dowell Plaza building that is shuttered.

So, yes, lots of vacancy.

[OKC Guy]

Paycom sucks up a huge volume of talent but I don’t see them ever moving downtown. They are in far NW OKC. Also quite a few are junior talent when hired and get experience and eventually move on.

[HOT ROD]

Isn't Express Personnel Services in OKC? Would they come downtown?

[HangryHippo]

Isn't Express Personnel Services in OKC? Would they come downtown?

I think they reduced their HQ footprint at the campus they built off NW Expressway, so that seems unlikely.

[HOT ROD]

OMG This is SO TRUE.

A couple of things in response to this conversation.

I work for a very high tech oilfield software company and a couple of observations of the last couple from the last couple of years directly apply here:

1) Those oil company office tower jobs ARE NOT COMING BACK. Modern E&P companies have a TINY permanent office work force, Echo is actually a really good example. Modern production companies mostly consist of a minimal staff of specialists, geologists, tech / data science people, and finance people that are crazy good at what they do. They get venture capital backing, buy existing assets, optimize, improve production prove reserves and then SELL, shut down the operation, start it again under a new name or the same name with a number after it and repeat the cycle. A lot of their field operations may be outsourced or on a contractor basis and many of them may only last a few years before the divest and repeat action. Some get to be pretty big, but not like Devon big. Also, the vast majority are located in other markets with better VC access, like Houston or Denver. Most of them look like software startups more than oil companies and their offices reflect that too. It's a wildly different world in E&P and honestly companies like Chesapeake kicked it off and in the process kind of became dinosaurs themselves.

2) LOL at the idea of filling those towers with tech jobs. Software companies are small-medium sized for the most part and pay very very well, they follow talent, not cheap real estate (many don't even need real estate). As someone who works for a company trying to hire developers and other tech professionals constantly in OKC, the talent base is literally not here. Our University programs are pretty out of date by the standards of modern software companies and there just isn't the kind of intellectual infrastructure here to support a large tech operation. I mean, my company is pretty small, and we hire every qualified dev in Oklahoma we can find, but like 2/3 of our dev force is out of state or even the country. OKC is a LONG way off of having a nationally significant tech economy, a lot of the people that are good that work in it now are remote employees working for out of state companies, likely got their education out of state and either returned home for cheap living or to follow a spouse or partner (or raise kids).

Honestly the big vacancies downtown may be one of OKC's trickiest problems to solve.

I'd like to see Oklahoma City University get serious about High Tech as it's a natural fit IMO for Oklahoma given it's central city location, large international student population, and lots of land for building(s). This is also where an expanded community college presence could come in handy, making affordable (if not free) classes in STEM available to those who can't get into university. Then partner with OKC based tech companies and voila!

I really wish OCU would get serious on High Tech and the city would build another OCCC campus downtown - would do wonders for OKC's profile and commitment to academics.

[SEMIweather]

I would be stunned if OCU invested heavily in tech anytime soon, the arts programs are what's really thriving there AFAIK.

[soonerguru]

Tech companies are drawn to centers of education and many are start-ups that come from high-level colleges.

Until we invest in education we are always going to lag in tech.

Honestly I don’t believe this state will ever invest in education. Hate to say it but that is hard to argue with. The GOP religious nuts and gun freaks who run the state don’t want an educated populace. The chamber types still think tax breaks and right to work and lawsuit reform are going to make us the next Austin. Not happening without education.

[GoldFire]

Not strictly high tech as it is mixed with the arts, but OCU just invested quite a bit in a new game development program that is looking quite promising.

[PaddyShack]

Doesn't OCCC have a campus in Capitol Hill? What programs are offered there and doesn't that get us close enough to Downtown? OCU Law is downtown along with the UCO ACM, for what that is worth.

[David]

UCO has been expanding their downtown offerings past just just ACM.

https://downtown.uco.edu/

Not really a technical program at the moment, but as time goes by I wouldn't be surprised if it grows from the current course offerings.

[Pete]

Two proposals vie for key downtown parcel


Two developers have submitted proposals to develop the highly-visible 3.3 acres at NW 4th and E.K. Gaylord in downtown Oklahoma City.

The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority had previously sought submissions for about half the property, but after being unsatisfied with the options, the city purchased the adjacent 1.8 acres for $4.4 million in November, then published a new request for proposal for the entire parcel.

The following is taken directly from the respective submissions.


Alley's End

The conceptual theme for Alley’s End Apartments is “sustainable artist development.” The surrounding offices, banks, parking structures and adjacent YMCA are heavily used facilities with high volumes of traffic. Our design will enhance and strengthen the surrounding area through creative site placement of three additional buildings, associated parking, creative new pedestrian zones and plazas, complete with public art. The proposed mixed use structures will be constructed with an appropriate five-story building incorporating a brick and metal panel facade. This concept promotes the pedestrian experience with plazas and urban canyons while incorporating micro-retail, dense residential. This design also features a secure parking garage, adjacent to the railroad tracks. This serves multiple purposes such as relief from traffic congestion, sound buffering, and an extra level of security for the residents and visitors.

The ground floor is designed to activate E.K. Gaylord Boulevard by strategically placing pedestrian corridors and plazas throughout the development. It will also create a bookend destination for Automobile Alley by becoming Alley’s End. Pedestrian boulevards are located around the envelope of the building while performance plazas, courtyards and micro-retail spaces are within the promenade. Those retail spaces enhance the street level activation and engage the strategically designed artistic performance and exhibition plazas throughout the development. The proposed design allows for ever changing art and performance, thus creating a destination rather than infill.

PHASED DEVELOPMENT & MIXED INCOME HOUSING APPROACH
This proposal considers a phased construction approach consisting of two phases. Both phases will incorporate a mixed-income approach to housing. Phase 1 will have 168 total apartment units spread over two five-story buildings, and 15,000 SF of ground floor retail. Of these 168 total units, we propose 128 affordable units at or below 60% of AMI. The remaining 40 units would be market rate. Also, included in Phase 1 will be a single parking deck that will have 100 parking spaces. Incorporating this amount of affordable housing allows us to promote affordable rent rates for artists and others in the 60% and below AMI range.

Phase 2 will include the construction of another five-story building abutting 4th Street. It will incorporate 110 additional units. Phase 2 will also be a mixed-income development, with 70 affordable units and 40 market rate apartments. Additionally, more parking will likely be constructed to accommodate additional site parking needs.

The phased construction approach is a more conservative development approach that will help to ensure the success of the entire development. This approach allows proper absorption of housing units and retail space before starting on the 2nd phase. It also allows Phase 1 to finish more quickly so as the site is not under construction for an extended period of time.

To help accomplish the goals of this conceptual project, we have enlisted the assistance of the American Covenant Housing Foundation. This non-profit organization develops and manages low to moderate income housing complexes nationwide. They currently have properties in eight states.

Rose Rock Development and American Covenant Housing Foundation will work as a JV development group, and will be structured as a non-profit development entity.

FSB are the architects.

Milhaus

[DoctorTaco]

Wow! I love the Alley's End concept and how many of these units are below-market rate.

[Jcurt]

The first one looks fantastic

[Pete]

Note that Bomasada, the company that submitted a proposal for the full property the first time around, did not apply.

Bomasada is the group from Houston that developed The Metropolitan. They originally had a deal with Jonathon Russell to buy his property and include it in with the city land. But once Russell sold to the city so they could seek development of the entire tract, they obviously withdrew.

Milhaus developed The Lift and once had a small staff here to pursue other projects, but later folded their tent and moved their personnel.