Lumberyard

[catcherinthewry]

What was originally being posted on this board, and the information that was going out, as Pete says, was a fantasy. It was totally unrealistic.

First of all, I wasn't quoting you, Steve and secondly Pete never said it was a fantasy. He said they were expecting "unreasonable" rents and had other big issues.

All I have said all a long was that between the renderings that came out in February, the more detailed plans that came out in March and the package for prospective buyers Pete obtained that this development had too much invested in it to be a "fantasy" or a "spec portfolio-building exercise". Too much time and money were invested in this development for it to written off from the start as some did on this board.

[okclee]

Bomb. Hope we get some news soon.

You can't say "bomb" on a message board.




(reference to "meet-the-parents")

[josh]

First of all, I wasn't quoting you, Steve and secondly Pete never said it was a fantasy. He said they were expecting "unreasonable" rents and had other big issues.

All I have said all a long was that between the renderings that came out in February, the more detailed plans that came out in March and the package for prospective buyers Pete obtained that this development had too much invested in it to be a "fantasy" or a "spec portfolio-building exercise". Too much time and money were invested in this development for it to written off from the start as some did on this board.

It actually doesn't take that much money to hire a firm to design a speculative development/rendering so they could then show it to prospective buyers and say "this is something you could do with this property."

And time is something all developers and investors have in excess.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Like I've said before: a first-year intern architect could whip this up in a couple weeks.

[Thundercitizen]

Like I've said before: a first-year intern architect could whip this up in a couple weeks.

Yep. A sketch project. Even an air brushed rendering (dating myself) and a model in two weeks-ish. A pitch, if you will. It's not like they're working drawings.

...but I'm going with a 43-story tower until it doesn't happen.

[catcherinthewry]

So this development goes from "fantasy" to "going to happen" in 8 months and all the renderings, plans, inquiries and buyers guides in between were just coincidences? I'm not buying it. Some one has been semi-serious about this since February. We may not see the original renderings come to fruition, but those who dismissed this as a fantasy back in February seemed to have jumped the gun.

[Urbanized]

Why don't you just name me if you are repeatedly going to quote me and only me? It certainly wouldn't be the first time you've trolled me on this board. Not exactly sure what that's about, but whatever. Again, you have the advantage of knowing who I am (I've always been forthright about it), while you remain hidden behind an anonymous name and take thinly-disguised potshots.

As has been mentioned, those conceptual plans would not have been expensive to produce. They are indeed beautiful, and unfortunately still probably look nothing like what will end up there (ergo "fantasy"). I don't have any question that the identified developer is/was hopeful that he could make the whole thing happen too (or if not, at least find a way to wring cash out of the deal). The way the thing was presented made it really clear that it was a financial fishing expedition, and as Pete pointed out many of the numbers associated were super-wonky (more fantasy).

At this point it sounds like some money could be in place for a scaled-down version. Perhaps a partner, perhaps a lender, it will be interesting to see which. I still find it very odd that there is so little to be found about this developer via online search. That's certainly not the case for pretty much any other developer active in downtown OKC, large or small, local or national.

Even scaled down it could still be an excellent addition to the neighborhood (if not TOO scaled down). As I've said all along, I hope something great happens there.

[HOT ROD]

I honestly think those initial renderings was a test to see if OKC was ready for high-rise residential as a market. You have to admit that we are now getting high rise residential, and the interest is coming from two confirmed developers at least. That must mean there was some sort of market analysis and we have Clayco and Milhaus with proposals and their own financing.

Seems too much of a coincidence for the lumberyard to not be a real project or at least a feeler at the time which maybe NOW has solidified into a real project (to be announced). ....

[G.Walker]

I wouldn't be surprised if Milhaus ends up as the developer for the Lumberyard. They already proposed a 20 story residential tower for the south of Stage Center location, given that they don't win that location, I could see them as a potential developer who could pull off at least one 20 story residential tower.

[bchris02]

If it is Milhaus, why would they do the Lumber Yard over 4th and EKG?

Like it or not, the Lumber Yard potential is somewhat marred by the Producers Co-op. Not only is it ugly but would you want to live with that smell constantly? Even times when it doesn't infect the rest of downtown it is very strong near that area. I am not trying to be negative or hyperbolic; this is a legitimate question.

[pw405]

If it is Milhaus, why would they do the Lumber Yard over 4th and EKG?

Like it or not, the Lumber Yard potential is somewhat marred by the Producers Co-op. Not only is it ugly but would you want to live with that smell constantly? Even times when it doesn't infect the rest of downtown it is very strong near that area. I am not trying to be negative or hyperbolic; this is a legitimate question.

Ya, I agree. While this is a good location, the Co-Op would need to go before this is developed. I see this development as something that could happen in a post-Map III downtown (and hopefully post Co-Op). Until then, this project only represents a developer's Vision for what could be. Either way, I'm glad to know that the downtown is attracting this level of developer interest.

[Laramie]

If it is Milhaus, why would they do the Lumber Yard over 4th and EKG?

Like it or not, the Lumber Yard potential is somewhat marred by the Producers Co-op. Not only is it ugly but would you want to live with that smell constantly? Even times when it doesn't infect the rest of downtown it is very strong near that area. I am not trying to be negative or hyperbolic; this is a legitimate question.

The Producers Cooperative Oil Mill is a real concern; not only the smell, but the sight of those huge metal structures detract from our changing skyline. You talk about something that might be an obstacle for development; this plant could be it.

We thought that they would relocate when they purchased the old former Bridgestone/Firestone Dayton Tire Plant.

Producers Cooperative Oil Mill plans to sell most of its land, but will remain just south of Oklahoma City's Bricktown | News OK

[HOT ROD]

but other big cities have industry close to their downtown. Are people wanting OKC to be so generic, so that every powerline is removed and there is no industry near downtown?

I'm not advocating for the Cotton Seed mill (as I agree they should move), but it almost seems like we want downtown to be just residential and office; and that may not be as realistic or big-league as some think since most other cities have (at least some) big industry nearby to downtown.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think the cotton mill needs to be moved. I want it to stay in OKC, but downtown doesn't seem to be a good place for it. Granted this isn't a communist country and we shouldn't be forcing people to move just because we don't like their business.

[betts]

I like the look of the cotton mill. It's not some bland, generic series of towers and adds some architectural interest. It sure does stink though. I'd love to see it move and the buildings repurposed.

[bchris02]

I think the cotton mill needs to be moved. I want it to stay in OKC, but downtown doesn't seem to be a good place for it. Granted this isn't a communist country and we shouldn't be forcing people to move just because we don't like their business.

I agree with this. Personally I think the Cotton Mill is a deterrent to development and that will become more evident after the boulevard is completed. However, its a long-time part of OKC history and provides jobs. It's also uniquely OKC. I can imagine if the day ever comes that it does move, what to do with the buildings will be a subject of controversy. They are historical, but I am not sure how they could be re-purposed.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like the look of the cotton mill. It's not some bland, generic series of towers and adds some architectural interest. It sure does stink though. I'd love to see it move and the buildings repurposed.

I don't think that's possible, but I could be wrong. I would think contamination issues would prevent it. Either way, I'd rather see the whole thing razed and a new, huge grand development built.

[Urbanized]

I doubt there will be an iota of controversy when the time comes to redevelop that land.

[ourulz2000]

I actually think the Cotton Mill is cool.

[ChrisHayes]

Personally, I'd love to wake up one morning, go to Okctalk or Newsok and see that the Producers Coop has been sold and is going to be tore down. It's an eyesore compared to downtown, and is a hinderance to development. I understand it provides jobs, and has a bit of historical significance, but the time for it to go has come and passed.

[G.Walker]

I want to see it go, it is an eyesore and the smell is horrid. For every 1 person who likes it, there is 10 who don't. And please if someone does decide to buy it and tear it down, please don't start a 'Save The Cotton Mill" campaign, lol.

[Plutonic Panda]

Personally, I'd love to wake up one morning, go to Okctalk or Newsok and see that the Producers Coop has been sold and is going to be tore down. It's an eyesore compared to downtown, and is a hinderance to development. I understand it provides jobs, and has a bit of historical significance, but the time for it to go has come and passed.

+1

[Laramie]

Hope the Mill doesn't became a hindrance to future development in that area; especially the Bricktown Towers.

The smell from the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill reminds me of the Stockyards; the odor was similar to when they burned the hides. Now the bulk of those operations have been moved to the expanded El Reno Stockyards.

It took years to move a division of the city's old waste sanitation plant (Eastside, I-40 Fort Smith Junction) to Jones, OK.

Producers Cooperative put its 43 acres just south of Bricktown on the market in early 2010 for $120 million, an asking price widely seen as well outside the realm of reason: $2,790,698 per acre, or $64 per square foot.

It will be expensive to move the mill.

The Producers Cooperative Oil Mill completed a $3 million expansion (Canola, Sunflowerseed) in October 2008.

Producers Cooperative Oil Mill Expands to Process Canola, Sunflowerseed

[OKCinsomniac]

The smell really seems to be getting worse. I live in the Deep Deuce area and instead of spending time outside on the balcony enjoying the nice weather, we were forced to make a regrettable odor-related retreat on Saturday night (and it wasn't much better on Sunday). I know we'll get a respite when the winds shift to a more wintertime-predominant-northerly type of situation, but still...

[s00nr1]

The smell really seems to be getting worse. I live in the Deep Deuce area and instead of spending time outside on the balcony enjoying the nice weather, we were forced to make a regrettable odor-related retreat on Saturday night (and it wasn't much better on Sunday). I know we'll get a respite when the winds shift to a more wintertime-predominant-northerly type of situation, but still...

But by then it will be too cold to enjoy the balcony.