Streetcar

[soonerguru]

Funny. I've met many OKC folks who think the same thing on the civic center. A far more costly bit of MAPs 3 and yet, not a peep out of from like the Ward 1 council person.

I consider such routines like this article to be of the Jeff Dunham variety. Y'all can figure out who plays jeff on your own in this scenario.

For some reason, through its articles and even in its pro-streetcar editorial, the Oklahoman continues to foster the line that somehow the streetcar might not get built. Questions: 1) Why do they continue to give people like Greiner a platform, and 2) Why are they singling out the streetcar in this regard? Couldn't the same also be true of the wellness centers, park, etc.?

[soonerguru]

James Greiner thinks the streetcar should be voted on again. Here's why. | NewsOK.com

Wouldn't it cost millions for OKC to run another vote on the MAPS project that's already been voted on? Greiner is a mental midget. We need to find a candidate to run against him in three years.

[Just the facts]

Does OKC have a recall procedure for council members?

[ljbab728]

Does OKC have a recall procedure for council members?

I think OKC needs a chance to vote on Greiner again, soon. He just seem to be totally out of his depth.

[soonerguru]

Does OKC have a recall procedure for council members?

Yes, but according to Midtowner, it's fairly onerous. Someone would have to really, really screw up.

[Just the facts]

I think OKC needs a chance to vote on Greiner again, soon. He just seem to be totally out of his depth.

Someone should ask him if he is willing to put himself up for a re-vote.

[Tier2City]

If it wasn't for Greiner we'd be looking at Shadid versus Marrs. Think about that.

[Urban Pioneer]

Quite frankly, we are seeing the destructive nature of the far, far Right and the far, far Left (green party). Both would rather set City Hall on fire rather than see their views disavowed.

[Just the facts]

Oklahoman Editorial

In Oklahoma City, future of mass transit has barely left the station | News OK

Some time I want to get a Facebook Account just so I can respond to the comments. Some people are so misinformed there is no saving them but they shouldn't be able to poison other minds with their misinformation.

For example - this Richard Kennedy guy doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

It is impossible to separate the centrally planned mass transit alternative to autonomous and sovereign automobile transport because the question goes to the heart of the ideological rift between collectivism and individualism and/or the ideological rift between governance and freedom.

The US federal government in cooperation with banks, the housing industry, auto companies, and road construction industry have specifically passed laws and standards that force us to use their products - with the taxpayers picking up most of the cost. I wonder what Richard thinks of Obamacare. To think that modern urban sprawl with its Euclidian single-use zoning is anything other than collectivism and central planning on a grand scale is naïve (it sure as hell isn't free-market). There is nothing more free or individual than walking - NOTHING, but it requires mixed-use walkable neighborhoods, and mixed-use walkable neighborhoods need to be connected by public transportation that expands the range of walking.

[OKCisOK4me]

James Greiner thinks the streetcar should be voted on again. Here's why. | NewsOK.com

Is Greiner the one that talks to God?

Also, I think the writer, Willy, needs to go in search of larger Crums...

Post edit...
Let's do this:
Q How do you think a Senior Health and Wellness Centers re-vote would come out?
A I think the majority of Oklahoma City voters feel the same way that I do, so I believe that the wellness centers would be stopped if it were voted on separately.

Sub in any other project, like a new convention center and you're going to find plenty of people that don't want it.

MAPS 3 was voted on. He needs to deal with it.

[Just the facts]

Oklahoman Editorial

In Oklahoma City, future of mass transit has barely left the station | News OK

Some time I want to get a Facebook Account just so I can respond to the comments. Some people are so misinformed there is no saving them but they shouldn't be able to poison other minds with their misinformation.

For example - this Richard Kennedy guy doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.



The US federal government in cooperation with banks, the housing industry, auto companies, and road construction industry have specifically passed laws and standards that force us to use their products - with the taxpayers picking up most of the cost. I wonder what Richard thinks of Obamacare. To think that modern urban sprawl with its Euclidian single-use zoning is anything other than collectivism and central planning on a grand scale is naïve (it sure as hell isn't free-market). There is nothing more free or individual than walking - NOTHING, but it requires mixed-use walkable neighborhoods, and mixed-use walkable neighborhoods need to be connected by public transportation that expands the range of walking.

...and to add to this - you have to be licensed by the government to even drive a car, and you have to pay another fee to tag the car. Then when you do drive the car after getting government authorization you have to pay a tax on the fuel. How can anyone think owning and driving car represents freedom? It is ridiculous.

[CaptDave]

...and to add to this - you have to be licensed by the government to even drive a car, and you have to pay another fee to tag the car. Then when you do drive the car after getting government authorization you have to pay a tax on the fuel. How can anyone think owning and driving car represents freedom? It is ridiculous.

Someone directed a question to the pseudo intellectual Kennedy asking him if the $700 million Crosstown was also an example of central planning. It is usually pretty obvious when someone has vested interests in pavement, oil, etc - you see it in responses to DOK editorials and posts on OKCTalk.

[hoya]

Someone directed a question to the pseudo intellectual Kennedy asking him if the $700 million Crosstown was also an example of central planning. It is usually pretty obvious when someone has vested interests in pavement, oil, etc - you see it in responses to DOK editorials and posts on OKCTalk.

I wonder who that might have been.

[catch22]

I posted this in another thread, but thought it would also bring some value to this thread.



I keep a running map of all new build (so no renovations are on this map -- too hard to keep track of their progress and display them on a map) construction downtown. Red is under construction, pink is an active proposal/in planning, blue is a rumor of development. And the green line is the Streetcar Route approved by council as Phase I.

[Urban Pioneer]

People are contacting me to find out if this new twitter account is me. I can assure you that it is not. And as far as I personally know, it is no one with the streetcar project. I think it is is hilarious though. His interview came out in print today.- Jeff

https://twitter.com/James_Greiner?refsrc=email

Fake James Greiner
@James_Greiner
My name is James, but deep down I wish everyone would call me Jimmy.
OKC Ward 1 · http://ihaterails.com

[Just the facts]

Some of those are pretty funny.

[Bellaboo]

Which one of you guys is doing this.......it's really funny.

[Rover]

The US federal government in cooperation with banks, the housing industry, auto companies, and road construction industry have specifically passed laws and standards that force us to use their products - with the taxpayers picking up most of the cost. I wonder what Richard thinks of Obamacare. To think that modern urban sprawl with its Euclidian single-use zoning is anything other than collectivism and central planning on a grand scale is naïve (it sure as hell isn't free-market). There is nothing more free or individual than walking - NOTHING, but it requires mixed-use walkable neighborhoods, and mixed-use walkable neighborhoods need to be connected by public transportation that expands the range of walking.

Yes, we have no free choice in America. We are controlled by the government....and the bogey men...and the conspirators....and everyone I don't agree with.

And we wonder why the tea party is considered lunatic fringe by many. They proclaim they want freedom but want everyone to live just like they want them to. LOL.

There is a place for the suburbs and a place for dense urban areas. We need both in OKC.

[Just the facts]

It's not a conspiracy Rover. They did it right out in the open. For example, in this country we measure economic growth by auto sales and new housing starts.

This is just a guess: Richard Kennedy = Rover?

[Rover]

You are as close with your guess as you are with your theories

[Urbanized]

I'd like a do-over on the last four Presidential elections. That's not the way democracy works though.

[G.Walker]

Good read, and OKC is mentioned in the article:

Transit Spending Slows Urban Growth | Cato @ Liberty

[hoya]

Good read, and OKC is mentioned in the article:

Transit Spending Slows Urban Growth | Cato @ Liberty

I don't know that I buy that. I'm not going to check his math, but generally cities that have large mass transit systems are already relatively mature. We wouldn't expect to see NYC or Chicago experiencing 6 1/2 % growth for any reason. Second, the cost of improving transportation in these built up areas will be significantly higher than in less developed areas. Boston's Big Dig cost a fortune. I'm sure the cost of operating NYC's subway is substantially higher than OKC's trolley will be. Third, the population has been shifting towards newer cities in the Sun Belt for reasons other than anything contained in this article. Generally these cities don't have established mass transportation systems at all.

Why stop at 1990? Why not go back and look at growth trends from the 1940s on to today?

[warreng88]

Site near I-40 picked for Oklahoma City streetcar garage

A site near the planned downtown Oklahoma City park is cost-effective and would fit well with future development goals, consultants say.

By William Crum Modified: November 20, 2013 at 8:23 pm • Published: November 21, 2013

Consultants said Wednesday that a block adjacent to Interstate 40 near the planned downtown park would be the best choice for the MAPS 3 streetcar maintenance facility.

The $5.5 million, 20,000-square-foot garage will serve the downtown streetcar, which is to open in 2017. Construction of the streetcar route is supposed to total $94.4 million.

Streetcars will run in a 4.6-mile loop through downtown, between Bricktown and Midtown.

The block, bounded by I-40 and SW 7 Street between Hudson and Walker avenues, is a cost-effective alternative to two potential Bricktown sites, a streetcar advisory panel was told.

Zoning is compatible with use as an industrial maintenance facility, and the land is part of a previous deal between the city and state dating to the relocation of I-40.

The site would include parking lots, and the maintenance garage could be expanded to 35,000 square feet as the streetcar system grows, consultants said in their presentation.

Drawings included the possible addition of a three- or four-story parking structure, and potential for street-level retail development.

The maintenance facility would be tucked into a corner of the site, screened from the nearby park and land to the north that's expected to be converted to residences.

A track leading from the streetcar route on W Reno Avenue would run down Hudson before turning into the garage.

The site ties in with hopes for extending the streetcar line to the park and through future residential developments.

Plans call for the initial route to run within a block of the park. With a budget of $132 million, the 70-acre park is one of the biggest MAPS 3 projects.

Site near I-40 picked for Oklahoma City streetcar garage | News OK

So, basically the block west of Union Station.

[Hutch]

Good read, and OKC is mentioned in the article:

Transit Spending Slows Urban Growth | Cato @ Liberty

Randal O'Toole is a paid anti-transit, anti-rail, anti-urbanism, anti-smart growth, anti-land use planning Libertarian whose sole mission is to try to counter federal, state and municipal efforts regarding those issues through his writings and public presentations. He frequently twists select information from various studies and statistics into misleading misinformation in an effort to sway public sentiment and governmental policy decision-making. He goes so far as to write editorials in local newspapers and travel for local speaking events and talk shows in cities that are in the process of making final decisions on rail transit projects. He is currently on the attack against modern streetcar projects in numerous cities, including most recently in San Antonio and Oklahoma City. Make no mistake, he is a mouthpiece and propagandist on a crusade against what he considers the evils of modern public transportation systems and land use planning efforts.

The Imminent Irrelevance of Randal O?Toole | Streetsblog New York City