Mayfair Shopping Center

[onthestrip]

The lack of ability to recognize nuance is frustrating. I’m not pointing to any particular poster, but to the internet in general. This corner does not have to be a multi-level mixed use masterpiece or some grand palace of urban design. Just building these same shops and restaurants in a more or less architecturally consistent fashion with some modern design and a few pedestrian-friendly touches would have been more than sufficient for most of us that are disappointed in what this strip has become.

Always easy to complain when its not your money or risk but the fact is the parts of Mayfair that remain were completely refurbished and brought in good new tenants. The parts of Mayfair and the church that was torn down are being replaced with businesses that will bring tons more economic activity than what was there previously. The amount of increased sales and ad valorem taxes from on these 3 corners will be huge. Not everything has to be, or even can be OAK.

[stlokc]

Sigh. I am frustrated and it is my own fault that I am really not able to get my point across. Let me try once more.

I am not saying these new places will not have increased economic activity. I am talking about design. One last attempt at what I am getting at:

Look at Nichols Hills Plaza. Look at Classen Curve. Those are developments in the same general vicinity. Yes, they cater to high incomes and the Mayfair area does not have to. But what do those retail centers have in common? They invite people into - I don't know - a "place." They give people a reason to congregate a little bit. To some degree they are architecturally continuous. To some degree they can work with the surrounding neighborhood. Chisholm Creek is trying to do the same thing in a more suburban context.

The intersection of 50th and May is not the most important intersection in the closer-in city but it does have a history and it does represent one of the few spots in the older area where you have enough room to create something that looks like a community. Not creating a series of boxes each with their own parking that looks and acts like Memorial Road. The 36th and Walker area is another area that could hold the same potential.

I am not a designer or an architect or a planner but I just kind of know in my gut what I am talking about. Enough said.

[Tyson]

Sigh. I am frustrated and it is my own fault that I am really not able to get my point across. Let me try once more.

I am not saying these new places will not have increased economic activity. I am talking about design. One last attempt at what I am getting at:

Look at Nichols Hills Plaza. Look at Classen Curve. Those are developments in the same general vicinity. Yes, they cater to high incomes and the Mayfair area does not have to. But what do those retail centers have in common? They invite people into - I don't know - a "place." They give people a reason to congregate a little bit. To some degree they are architecturally continuous. To some degree they can work with the surrounding neighborhood. Chisholm Creek is trying to do the same thing in a more suburban context.

The intersection of 50th and May is not the most important intersection in the closer-in city but it does have a history and it does represent one of the few spots in the older area where you have enough room to create something that looks like a community. Not creating a series of boxes each with their own parking that looks and acts like Memorial Road. The 36th and Walker area is another area that could hold the same potential.

I am not a designer or an architect or a planner but I just kind of know in my gut what I am talking about. Enough said.

I'm completely tracking with you.

[Bill Robertson]

Sigh. I am frustrated and it is my own fault that I am really not able to get my point across. Let me try once more.

I am not saying these new places will not have increased economic activity. I am talking about design. One last attempt at what I am getting at:

Look at Nichols Hills Plaza. Look at Classen Curve. Those are developments in the same general vicinity. Yes, they cater to high incomes and the Mayfair area does not have to. But what do those retail centers have in common? They invite people into - I don't know - a "place." They give people a reason to congregate a little bit. To some degree they are architecturally continuous. To some degree they can work with the surrounding neighborhood. Chisholm Creek is trying to do the same thing in a more suburban context.

The intersection of 50th and May is not the most important intersection in the closer-in city but it does have a history and it does represent one of the few spots in the older area where you have enough room to create something that looks like a community. Not creating a series of boxes each with their own parking that looks and acts like Memorial Road. The 36th and Walker area is another area that could hold the same potential.

I am not a designer or an architect or a planner but I just kind of know in my gut what I am talking about. Enough said.

I see your point. The mention of Classen Curve being "a place to get people to congregate" I get. But I see something like Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza as being on a different planet. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up very close to Mayfair. And to us those two areas could have been on a different planet. The other two developments fit where they are. The housing additions east and west of Mayfair haven't drastically changed in at least the 60 years I'm directly familiar with. In my view Mayfair fits perfectly in with the area.

[stlokc]

Bill,
I appreciate your response. In full disclosure I did not grow up close to Mayfair and I do not have much personal history with it at all. I just enjoy studying cities and one thing I have come to appreciate is that what makes cities unique from suburbs is this idea of "community." Again I don't know Mayfair but I can picture those neighborhoods being full of people that might like to walk a block - for example - to a coffee shop. And I know there will be a Starbucks at the corner and I assume there will be a sidewalk but it's not the same thing. Mayfair has a name and a history. Even growing up 20 minutes away, we could pinpoint "Mayfair" and what it was. I remember it from the BC Clark commercials LOL. There are not very many nodes like that in OKC. Much of OKC looks like NW Highway or Memorial Road, in the sense that there is not one distinguishing characteristic about what you see from one mile to the next. And when you are talking about the suburbs, that's what you get. But that's what has traditionally made older parts of cities shine and I think in a few years there will be no Mayfair at all. It will just be "the spot on May Avenue where there are some new er buildings."

[Shortsyeararound]

Bill,
I appreciate your response. In full disclosure I did not grow up close to Mayfair and I do not have much personal history with it at all. I just enjoy studying cities and one thing I have come to appreciate is that what makes cities unique from suburbs is this idea of "community." Again I don't know Mayfair but I can picture those neighborhoods being full of people that might like to walk a block - for example - to a coffee shop. And I know there will be a Starbucks at the corner and I assume there will be a sidewalk but it's not the same thing. Mayfair has a name and a history. Even growing up 20 minutes away, we could pinpoint "Mayfair" and what it was. I remember it from the BC Clark commercials LOL. There are not very many nodes like that in OKC. Much of OKC looks like NW Highway or Memorial Road, in the sense that there is not one distinguishing characteristic about what you see from one mile to the next. And when you are talking about the suburbs, that's what you get. But that's what has traditionally made older parts of cities shine and I think in a few years there will be no Mayfair at all. It will just be "the spot on May Avenue where there are some new er buildings."

I get what you mean as well. I like the little strip part where Summer Moon is and that would be ok for the area. I do love NHP which is a little more insular and blocked similar to CC, which I don’t love. If the strip is all built like the little corner so far then it would be 100000 times better than all of the mini Memorials that dot the city.

[OkieBerto]

Sigh. I am frustrated and it is my own fault that I am really not able to get my point across. Let me try once more.

I am not saying these new places will not have increased economic activity. I am talking about design. One last attempt at what I am getting at:

Look at Nichols Hills Plaza. Look at Classen Curve. Those are developments in the same general vicinity. Yes, they cater to high incomes and the Mayfair area does not have to. But what do those retail centers have in common? They invite people into - I don't know - a "place." They give people a reason to congregate a little bit. To some degree they are architecturally continuous. To some degree they can work with the surrounding neighborhood. Chisholm Creek is trying to do the same thing in a more suburban context.

The intersection of 50th and May is not the most important intersection in the closer-in city but it does have a history and it does represent one of the few spots in the older area where you have enough room to create something that looks like a community. Not creating a series of boxes each with their own parking that looks and acts like Memorial Road. The 36th and Walker area is another area that could hold the same potential.

I am not a designer or an architect or a planner but I just kind of know in my gut what I am talking about. Enough said.

I also understand your point and agree about the community part. However, CC and NHP despite having a better design have always annoyed me. Every time I go to Trader Joe's or try and hit up Tuckers in CC, I feel there is not enough parking close to the shop. Since this is the case I usually end up walking far anyways and dealing with distracted drivers from all the busy people walking around and the tight driving lanes. I have almost been hit or hit someone with my car. Sure, I should go at a different time of day, but not everyone has that luxury. Mayfair was built for the Car not the person. Until Oklahoma City becomes more walking or biking friendly or even just more Public Transit friendly, we will always get developments like Mayfair.

[stlokc]

OkieBerto,
I respect what you have written and don't disagree, except to say that the occasional inability to park directly in front of a store at CC or NHP could be considered a feature, rather than a bug, in that those places are at least marginally more designed for people than the typical car-centric development. That is what differentiates them from a situation where the same collection of stores are strung out for half a mile along Memorial Road.

As for your last sentence, I would respectfully argue that this is a chicken and egg scenario. OKC keeps reinforcing the same car-centric development because "we are not walking or biking friendly" and then keeps waiting for the city to become more walking or biking friendly. It has to start somewhere or it will never start.

[CCOKC]

Like Bill, I have some close ties to Mayfair. My grandparents lived both west and east of May when I was growing up and I lived in Mayfair Heights for about 4 years when my children were little in the 90s. Mayfair was a place that had almost everything you would need from a retail standpoint. There were 2 grocery stores, TG&Y, 2 drug stores, a bank, hair salons, a book store, a Hallmark, clothing stores, and more. Plus every Christmas we would go to Flower City just to look at the pretty things. Things change but it certainly was nice to be able to walk from the house to get just about anything we needed. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's near 50th and Meridian, I could say the same thing about Springdale. As a kid it was nice to not have to rely upon my mother to drive me to get things I might need. Neither strip mall was extraordinary in design, but it was nice to be so close to the things we needed.

[stlokc]

CC,
Thank you for the anecdote. I am sure that someone will soon chime in about how the retail world of your memory is not how retail works any more. Little stores like the ones you reference don't really exist any more because of the internet, the power of chains, etc.

Except that they do. In urban neighborhoods across the country people still walk to buy things. The developers of the "new Mayfair" have attracted a large number of retailers to these car-centric boxes they have created, so there is still demand for in-person shopping (and actually much more than there used to be - dining) experiences. It's just a matter of thinking differently from what has been done the last 40 years.

And that is actually exactly what they are doing, right down the street, at OAK. I'm only arguing that Mayfair could be a nice little neighborhood-scaled, middle class version of that.

[barrettd]

Like Bill, I have some close ties to Mayfair. My grandparents lived both west and east of May when I was growing up and I lived in Mayfair Heights for about 4 years when my children were little in the 90s. Mayfair was a place that had almost everything you would need from a retail standpoint. There were 2 grocery stores, TG&Y, 2 drug stores, a bank, hair salons, a book store, a Hallmark, clothing stores, and more. Plus every Christmas we would go to Flower City just to look at the pretty things. Things change but it certainly was nice to be able to walk from the house to get just about anything we needed. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's near 50th and Meridian, I could say the same thing about Springdale. As a kid it was nice to not have to rely upon my mother to drive me to get things I might need. Neither strip mall was extraordinary in design, but it was nice to be so close to the things we needed.

This is my memory, as well, having grown up in Mayfair. You could spend an afternoon wandering from shop to shop, easily. I think I understand what stlokc is saying, and I do agree it would have been nice, and I also agree with all those saying the new stuff is still better than old abandoned shops.

[Pete]

The "old Mayfair" failed over 40 years ago and had been a disastrous eyesore for at least 30 years.

It's not an exaggeration to say I've walked through there 4-5 times a week for 3 years. I know what I'm talking about.

As someone who lives nearby and patronizes the businesses, I'm thrilled with what they've done. It is absurd to expect every development in OKC to meet the OAK standard, as it only took OKC 140 years to get ONE such development.

And BTW, these same developers are spending a small fortune to bring back Classen Circle.

[MagzOK]

CC,
Thank you for the anecdote. I am sure that someone will soon chime in about how the retail world of your memory is not how retail works any more. Little stores like the ones you reference don't really exist any more because of the internet, the power of chains, etc.

Except that they do. In urban neighborhoods across the country people still walk to buy things. The developers of the "new Mayfair" have attracted a large number of retailers to these car-centric boxes they have created, so there is still demand for in-person shopping (and actually much more than there used to be - dining) experiences. It's just a matter of thinking differently from what has been done the last 40 years.

And that is actually exactly what they are doing, right down the street, at OAK. I'm only arguing that Mayfair could be a nice little neighborhood-scaled, middle class version of that.

Aside from maybe a few little pockets, OKC has been and continues to be a car-centric city and will be for a very long time. It's just the way the city is laid out and sprawled. It's in the top 10 of largest cities in America by land. The majority of the population doesn't want to give up their vehicles, including myself. No I'm not saying that nobody is walking or that nobody wants to walk, but the majority want to drive. It just is what it is, man.

[Pete]

It would be nice if this corner did have some architectural flair (similar to the preserved building on 47th), but I'm guessing that Taco Casa will just drop corporate building plan #43 down on their plot, just like Panda Express did (not faulting them for it, that's what huge corporations do). Maybe the "Restaurants/Retail" building will have some character like it is in the rendering, and maybe the other buildings will too, but I doubt any of it will be anything out of the ordinary, sadly.

Read up thread.

I've posted renderings for the rest of the development and other than the stand-alone fast food places, There will be 3 new buildings with similar 'wavy' midcentury architecture.


You guys really need to take the trouble to actually read what I post before you start bitching. Getting very, very old.

Now, you'll read up thread and say those plans suck too.

[Pete]

Frankly, it's amazing they chose to renovate the Michael's building and the strip center south of the bank.

The soffit covering the walkway can't be much more than 6' high. I'm only 5'9" and it's uncomfortably low.


People have no idea what a mess that whole property was. Now, we have the nicely renovated strips, the awesome mid-century building and much more to come.

They added a slightly renovated Michaels, a completely new UPS Store (I use it a lot -- very busy), the very nicely done Domino and car wash (on a lot that had never been developed before), Empire Slice with a great patio, Summer Moon is beautiful and always slammed, they moved long-time tenants Barber Shop and Tailor into hugely upgraded space, brought in new-to-market Rockler, a medical imaging facility, are finishing up on Panda Express, and HTeaO and Taco Casa will start soon, and will be adding that Starbucks and a 5 Guys...

Like it or not, after the pandemic, it's all about the drive-thru and that is mainly while this has been developed in the manner it has.


We have Classen Curve, NHP, and very soon OAK. Ridiculous to expect anything like those here.

[pickles]

The "old Mayfair" failed over 40 years ago and had been a disastrous eyesore for at least 30 years.

It's not an exaggeration to say I've walked through there 4-5 times a week for 3 years. I know what I'm talking about.

As someone who lives nearby and patronizes the businesses, I'm thrilled with what they've done. It is absurd to expect every development in OKC to meet the OAK standard, as it only took OKC 140 years to get ONE such development.

And BTW, these same developers are spending a small fortune to bring back Classen Circle.

Until just a few years ago, it seemed like 50/50 that you could watch someone sell drugs in the parking lot whenever you went to mail a package, get your hair cut, or pick something up at Michael's.

[Pete]

Until just a few years ago, it seemed like 50/50 that you could watch someone sell drugs in the parking lot whenever you went to mail a package, get your hair cut, or pick something up at Michael's.

As I said, I've been walking through there several times a week for three years.

Tons of homeless, trash, and neglect.

[Bill Robertson]

Frankly, it's amazing they chose to renovate the Michael's building and the strip center south of the bank.

The soffit covering the walkway can't be much more than 6' tall. I'm only 5'9" and it's uncomfortably low.


People have no idea what a mess that whole property was. Now, we have the nicely renovated strips, the awesome mid-century building and much more to come.

They added a slightly renovated Michaels, a completely new UPS Store (I use it a lot -- very busy), the very nicely done Domino and car wash (on a lot that had never been developed before), Empire Slice with a great patio, Summer Moon is beautiful and always slammed, they moved long-time tenants Barber Shop and Tailor into hugely upgraded space, brought in new-to-market Rockler, a medical imaging facility, are finishing up on Panda Express, and HTeaO and Taco Casa will start soon, and will be adding that Starbucks and a 5 Guys...

Like it or not, after the pandemic, it's all about the drive-thru and that is mainly while this has been developed in the manner it has.


We have Classen Curve, NHP, and very soon OAK. Ridiculous to expect anything like this here.

I always noticed how low the soffits were (are). And I'm only 5'7". I also use the UPS store often. It's much better than the old one. And almost always very busy.

[TheTravellers]

It's new construction, not an 80-year-old building where they have no idea what is under all the crap added over the years, in addition to 40 years of abject neglect.

The Starbucks building is well under construction and will look just like the renderings.

There is no evidence the other two buildings will not follow suit.

Good to know, although we'll still go to Summer Moon over *$.

[barrettd]

Frankly, it's amazing they chose to renovate the Michael's building and the strip center south of the bank.

The soffit covering the walkway can't be much more than 6' tall. I'm only 5'9" and it's uncomfortably low.


People have no idea what a mess that whole property was. Now, we have the nicely renovated strips, the awesome mid-century building and much more to come.

They added a slightly renovated Michaels, a completely new UPS Store (I use it a lot -- very busy), the very nicely done Domino and car wash (on a lot that had never been developed before), Empire Slice with a great patio, Summer Moon is beautiful and always slammed, they moved long-time tenants Barber Shop and Tailor into hugely upgraded space, brought in new-to-market Rockler, a medical imaging facility, are finishing up on Panda Express, and HTeaO and Taco Casa will start soon, and will be adding that Starbucks and a 5 Guys...

Like it or not, after the pandemic, it's all about the drive-thru and that is mainly while this has been developed in the manner it has.


We have Classen Curve, NHP, and very soon OAK. Ridiculous to expect anything like those here.

Any perceived bitching on my part is just nostalgia. I don't live down there anymore and am very excited to see the area resurrected. I have fond memories of the neighborhood from my youth, and am happy for the transformation the shopping center is undergoing.

[Bill Robertson]

Once a building permit is issued, they can't change the plans without resubmitting.

But keep trying to find a way to be negative.

Very true. The city does not like amending/changing building permits. I've been on projects that were completed as planned then modified after final inspections just to avoid dealing with the major hassle of amending the permit.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like this development. I don’t think it needs to be mixed use. I just wish they could have sacrificed some parking spaces for sidewalks. Other than that it’s great and fits the area.

[Dob Hooligan]

I drive by Mayfair daily. As I consider some of the complaints upthread, I have begun to think about how the entire area from Target going south to Panda Express on the east side and from Dave & Busters to Empire Slice House on the west side is an incredibly good mix of personal needs. Shopping, food, fuel, banking, dental care, communications devices, billiards, crafts, woodworking, shipping, etc. Local brands, national brands and unique to market brands. And apartments are 100 feet to the east, or 1 block to the west.

A half mile walk, max, would provide almost any product or service a resident would need in close proximity to lots of residential units. New Urbanists might nit pick, but this is great use of real estate in a mid-century neighborhood IMO.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah I agree. I really don’t see the issue here.

[Pete]

Panda Express (3rd photo) is very close to opening.

Note the number of cars in the parking lot for Summer Moon Coffee (last photo) -- this was in the AM before Empire opened.