Cable barriers don't stop semis

[Patrick]

Since everyone here was pro cable barrier, I was merely trying to get you to think outside the box for a minute...sometimes that requires taking the other side to force the issue.

Personally, I could care less what type of barrier is out there, as long as it's something that's somewhat effective.

And Midtowner, you are 100% correct. I don't think the "cable" barriers should be replaced. I was just taking that argument as far as I thought it could go.

[Karried]

I heard that the truck driver was eating, choked and passed out... and only one person dying is still pretty tragic for the family of that one person.

Not a day goes by that when I kiss my husband goodbye in the morning that I don't think, please come home safely.. driving is a risk no doubt about it.

[zuluwarrior0760]

When the cable system was originally installed,
the cost of concrete barriers along that stretch
of road was incredibly expensive because of the grass
median and the preparation that would have to be
undertaken to support concrete barriers. Even
in an application where there is a concrete median already,
the concrete barrier option is a little over 550,000.00 per mile
and in the case of Hefner Parkway, it was 800K per mile as I recall. At that time, the cable system came in at less than 165,000.00 per mile.

On a roadway that predated the Kilpatrick and was nearly entirely "non semi" traffic, it made a lot of sense back then...

From the construction of the roadway to the installation of the concrete barriers, there were a total of 78 fatalities I believe....from crossovers exlusively. In the 7 or so years since it's installation, there have been 1, with well over 300 people hitting the barrier.

I for one and glad they are there.....as to the guys who say we're "spending all this money" on cables and we could've had concrete.....all I can say is cut the check!

[Keith]

When the cable system was originally installed,
the cost of concrete barriers along that stretch
of road was incredibly expensive because of the grass
median and the preparation that would have to be
undertaken to support concrete barriers. Even
in an application where there is a concrete median already,
the concrete barrier option is a little over 550,000.00 per mile
and in the case of Hefner Parkway, it was 800K per mile as I recall. At that time, the cable system came in at less than 165,000.00 per mile.

On a roadway that predated the Kilpatrick and was nearly entirely "non semi" traffic, it made a lot of sense back then...

From the construction of the roadway to the installation of the concrete barriers, there were a total of 78 fatalities I believe....from crossovers exlusively. In the 7 or so years since it's installation, there have been 1, with well over 300 people hitting the barrier.

I for one and glad they are there.....as to the guys who say we're "spending all this money" on cables and we could've had concrete.....all I can say is cut the check!

They have had more than 400 hits on the cables which is way too many. Why so many hits? Because drivers will not slow down, and many are driving wrecklessly, which is causing them to lose control of their vehicles. Speed, inattention, and stupidity....these are ingredients for a tragic accident.

I am glad the the barriers are in place, but where are the OKC police at? I have driven the Hefner Speedway numerous times, and have never seen an officer running radar or just driving the speedway. Since we have a tremendous lack of law enforcement on the highway, then the traffic accidents keep climbing. As long as the police do not enforce the speed limit, there will continuously be accidents, because some drivers feel they are indestructable.

I think the barriers do serve a purpose, but if everyone obeyed the speed limit and didn't drive like maniacs, then we would not need them. The fact is, after a traffic fatality, there is more police presence for a couple of weeks...and then they are gone again.

[okcpulse]

On a roadway that predated the Kilpatrick

That is actually incorrect. The Kilpatrick Turnpike opened in September 1991. The Lake Hefner Parkway opened in May 1992.

There is actually an alternative to both permanent concrete barriers and cable barriers. I noticed since moving to Houston, Texas, that the concrete barriers used on Interstate 45 are concrete barrier blocks that are bolted together with a metal plate. It is obvious that many trucks and cars have hit these barriers. I noticed many spots along this barrier are buckled from impact, but only by inches. Could this be a cheaper alternative? May not look as pretty, but it gets the job done.

Another wish I have for ODOT for Oklahoma City and Tulsa is to discontinue marking the highways with paint strips and begin using raised markers, such as what's used here in Houston. Each lane on the interstate AND feeder road is marked by reflectors, then where a paint strip is normally placed there are four white round raised markers. It makes driving in the rain much easier, and reduces lane drifting.

[okcpulse]

BTW. Only one person died.

I do not find that acceptable, and neither should anyone. One death is one too many. Sure, more could have died. But I prefer ZERO fatalities.

[OklaCity_75]

Okay thread cops go ahead and shoot me because I did not read all the threads.

Someone may have said this already but I am going to repeat it anyway.

LHP was never intended to be like I-35. It was built to alleviate congestion off other roads and create a new north/south route through the city.

LHP's main purpose is for commuter traffic to and from the north end of the city.

Eighteen Wheelers were never in the equation when it came to designing the road. All the new development along Memorial has created a drastic increase in 18 Wheeler traffic. Back when the cables were installed maybe 10-15 trucks a day traveled LHP. Now with the all the new big box stores and restaurants on Memorial there are probably more like 50-100 a day traveling LHP.

I think it is funny how we blame roads, vehicles and barriers for this accident. Cable barrier or 100ft brickwall with flashing neon lights and NASCAR track bumpers this person should have been driving and doing nothing else.

This person was driving 20 tons of steel, aluminum, fiberglass and plastic down the road. He should have focused on driving instead eating.

The main problem with LHP is the drivers that drive it everyday. Every morning I see people driving like its lap 499 of a NASCAR race. Then you have the people who are doing everything but driving. Please would you talk on your cell phone, put on make up, eat, read, or tune a radio while running a chainsaw.

No, of course you would not. So why do people do it when they are driving 1500-4000 pound vehicles at 65-90 MPH.

[Midtowner]

They have had more than 400 hits on the cables which is way too many. Why so many hits? Because drivers will not slow down, and many are driving wrecklessly, which is causing them to lose control of their vehicles. Speed, inattention, and stupidity....these are ingredients for a tragic accident.
\

Keith, high speeds are only accountable for 18% of accidents

[Midtowner]

I do not find that acceptable, and neither should anyone. One death is one too many. Sure, more could have died. But I prefer ZERO fatalities.

What's the alternative here?

Had concrete barriers been installed on 1/4 that amount of road, all things being equal, there were 400 hits, so we'd be talking about 100 dead instead of 1.

I'll take the one.

[{la_resistance}]

If we were to update the system now that would be taking even more cash away from Oklahoma's road repairs. Last time I checked they had passed the $10 billion dollar mark. People have died from chunks of concrete falling from OKC bridges(I remember two such incidents last year). In the end it would be nice to have stronger barriers, but for now it seems that the money is desperately need elsewhere.

[OklaCity_75]

If we were to update the system now that would be taking even more cash away from Oklahoma's road repairs. Last time I checked they had passed the $10 billion dollar mark. People have died from chunks of concrete falling from OKC bridges(I remember two such incidents last year). In the end it would be nice to have stronger barriers, but for now it seems that the money is desperately need elsewhere.

No one has died in Oklahoma City from falling concrete. Tulsa had a bridge that lost concrete on two occasions one fell and hit the ground, the other time the chunks damaged vehicles.

The bridge that lost chunks of concrete that killed someone one was on I-35 in southern Oklahoma.

You have fallen for that campaign commercial for the gas tax that would have supposedly "Repaired every bad road and bridge in Oklahoma." Oklahoma voters smelled the rat that was hiding in that special tax.

That tax if it would have been passed would have done nothing more than raise gas prices and provide job security for road and bridge building companies. You would every small town with a post office get new roads and bridges(regardless if they needed them or not) while Oklahoma City and Tulsa still ran on the same rough roads.

Oklahoma's problem is we have too many roads. We have overbuilt in areas that do need roads. The state of Oklahoma has been at mercy of the small town politician since statehood. We are finally getting politicians that see the potential in taking care of the largest cities first.

[Midtowner]

I'd perhaps be more supportive of these measures to give more money to transportation if ODOT were to set up a non-modifiable system by which needs for road improvements and maintenance were addressed on a subjective needs basis that takes into account things like the quality of existing roads/bridges, the current traffic load, etc. Thereby prioritizing improvements based on need instead of the seniority of the local delegation.

[Patrick]

The problem with LHP is both speed and design. The LHP is not straight like I-35, I-40, etc. It curves around the lake, and most accidents do indeed occur on the curves. But the curves are very deceiving. I drive that stretch all the time, and the curves don't look as steep as they really are.

[Patrick]

Midtowner, I do not agree with what you said about Patrick just taking that argument as far as he thinks it can go, but I will not elaborate.

Edited to clarify what I meant.

I'd love for you to elaborate.

[writerranger]

I just wanted to put in a word for the EuroCable barriers. Those things have been an absolute smashing success. Oklahoma was the United States test bed for these systems and now they are in somewhere around 30 states. Their work is done not only through preventing crossovers (which they have done magnificently); but in their ability to take the hit, lessen the impact on the vehicles that hit them, absorb the impact and prevent bounce-backs onto the highway. You replace these with concrete and you have no scientifically designed system of impact absorption and its back to the days of hard impact that causes traumatic injury, flipping, flyovers into oncoming traffic and quick return into the highway with small vehicles. The record of these cables versus concrete is balanced far on the side of the cables. There is no comparison. Were the cables barriers a match for a semi? No. Neither would concrete have been. Have they proven to be successful and prevented hundreds of accidents? An unqualified yes! These cables are a God-send.

[Keith]

Keith, high speeds are only accountable for 18% of accidents

So, I guess the other 82% is caused by wreckless driving and stupidity.

[Oki_Man5]

I'd love for you to elaborate.

No need to elaborate---all one has to do is read the first nine posts in this thread, and it will be obvious.

[SoonerDave]

but if everyone obeyed the speed limit and didn't drive like maniacs

Yeah, but if you do that, you get crucified as noted by others in a different thread on such a topic...

-SoonerDave

[mranderson]

If you drive down the Hefner Parkway, and pay close attention, especially during "rush hour" (Jeez! What an oxymoron) you will find most drivers crawl. Even during non peak driving times, they tend to crawl. The police are not going to pull you for doing 70. Why they will not pull you for driving too slow is anyones guess.

Many of these crackpots are yacking on their cellulars or looking at the car on the shoulder with a flat tire. It only takes one slowy to cause a multi mile road block. I have never seen a car driving the speed limit or above slow down traffic.

Carelessness caused that collision. Not fast drivers. The driver should have and may well be charged with a crime... Just for stopping at McDonalds.

[Patrick]

No need to elaborate---all one has to do is read the first nine posts in this thread, and it will be obvious.

Sorry you feel that way about dirtrider. I think he's one heck of a nice guy. And I've met him in person, so I can backup my statements with firsthand evidence. :respect:

On a more serious note, I think it's time to forget past issues and move on. The continued indirect jabs are unncessary.