Takaramono (formerly Oak & Ore)

[Plutonic Panda]

I wouldn’t say 23rd and Penn is horrible. But I also would not argue with someone that said that it is. I mean, look at this Google streetview and image. My own personal anecdote is that I have seen some pretty raunchy stuff at the intersection.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qRVuw7xtwzVBqQy26?g_st=ic

I do agree that horrible is a pretty strong term. But then again, it’s kinda relative to what you’re referring to.

From my circle of people that I know, and am related to in Oklahoma City metropolitan area, Anything that is not Edmond, Far northwest OKC, Or Nichols Hills, Has a negative stereotype. I don’t all agree with that. But I suspect a lot of people feel that way.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’ll also add, If you’re ever drunk/high, Can’t sleep, Or just want some entertainment, Go to the pizza house south of 23rd on Penn around 3am. You’ll meet some pretty interesting characters there.

[Pete]

I wouldn’t say 23rd and Penn is horrible. But I also would not argue with someone that said that it is. I mean, look at this Google streetview and image.

Looks about the same as any OKC major intersection and better than most.

I realize ignorant people want to claim some sort of superiority because they live in a suburb, but we shouldn't be furthering that crap here.

There are tons of people on OKCTalk that live within a couple of miles of that intersection and love their neighborhood.

[Plutonic Panda]

Looks about the same as any OKC major intersection and better than most.

I realize ignorant people want to claim some sort of superiority because they live in a suburb, but we shouldn't be furthering that crap here.

There are tons of people on OKCTalk that live within a couple of miles of that intersection and love their neighborhood.

Absolutely I agree with you. I’m just saying there is a stereotype that exists Around the city about the inner parts of the city. as I said, it’s not one that I agree with. In fact, I think there’s kind of a silver lining in that it keeps these gems hidden. I’ve noticed whatever trendy areas, when they get “discovered,” they kind of lose their charm. The Plaza District and the Paseo are both very nice districts, but they have a completely different vibe from the one they had back in the late 2000s and even early 2010s. I don’t hate the way it is now, but I do kind of miss the old versions.

I think the city should do more placemaking here.

Something like this would be cool for 23rd St.: https://maps.app.goo.gl/cUUYGE8741GCMCXx8?g_st=ic

Though they could probably only do one car each way instead of two due to ROW restraints.

[Rover]

Most other countries think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars and parking. We don't live in a walking state in case you didn't notice. We even have parking requirements for new builds.

You’d probably be shocked at some of the traffic jams I've been in in London, Paris, Istanbul, Mexico City, Seoul, Jakarta, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Athens, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Rio, Sao Paolo, and other places you don't seem to think people drive cars.

And in many, many years of my travels I've never had anyone express that they think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars. They mostly think we are rich because so many have one or more.

[PhiAlpha]

Looks about the same as any OKC major intersection and better than most.

I realize ignorant people want to claim some sort of superiority because they live in a suburb, but we shouldn't be furthering that crap here.

There are tons of people on OKCTalk that live within a couple of miles of that intersection and love their neighborhood.

I mean yeah…like I did for 8 years and do again after moving away for a few years. When I bought my house in 2011 and especially around the time Rococo opened (2003), I thought that was a crappy part of town along with uptown, most of which was dilapidated at the time. I am far from ignorant about inner core OKC after spending most of my adult life in it. I’ve lived inside of the inner core of either OKC or Tulsa for all but a total of 1.5 years since graduating 15 years ago. I loved my neighborhood and loved several nearby neighborhoods that I looked to buy in and still thought most of 23rd sucked and was a rough part of town for awhile after I moved down here. If someone had said “I want to put a fancy/expensive restaurant out on an island at 23rd and Penn in 2011, I would’ve thought that was a much worse idea than putting a fancy restaurant in the Plaza in 2024…which is way nicer than 23rd and Penn is even now…and the point of my post was that Rococo worked (in a much less ideal location than the plaza) because the food and experience are good.

But on 23rd and Penn and uptown…guess what? Over a decade later it’s all a ton better. I never said that I thought it was currently a horrible part of town or even recently was a horrible part of town.

[PhiAlpha]

Rococo wasn't any more expensive than any of the places in the Plaza which is less than a mile away. And Tony's Italian Specialties had a long and successful run in that same location. Social did well just around the corner.

23rd and Penn has OCU right next door, Shepherd neighborhood is directly west, Gatewood to the south and the rest of the area is just fine.

I get tired of people looking down their noses at anything not Heritage Hills or Edmond. The huge majority of people in OKC live in areas just like this, including yours truly and I love my neighborhood. "Horrible" is a strong and denigrating word.

Again…I didn’t say it was a horrible part of town now or even that recently nor did I say the surrounding neighborhoods were horrible…but that intersection was pretty bad when I moved down here as were the neighborhoods around OCU. Shepherd was fairly nice, Gatewood was coming along (though the northwest corner of it was noticeably farther behind the rest), Las Vegas and Pennville both were very rough aside from a street or two and military park was a little better than OCU/Epworth but not by much. While house hunting, I looked extensively through every neighborhood between downtown and essentially I-44 because I knew little to nothing about it at the time and ended up with a very good feel for the state of that entire area back then. There were also a bunch of dilapidated apartments right next to rococo. Maybe horrible was a strong word but it was certainly close as was most of uptown.

Rococo is/was absolutely quite a bit more expensive than most of the Plaza restaurants, especially vs the plaza restaurants early in its transformation…but again the point was that the spot Roccoco chose in 2003 was far less ideal than the old Oak and Ore space, that several are questioning, is today. It sounds like they will be in the same price range and Rococo has been very successful because it’s a great restaurant…if this restaurant promotes it self and provides a great experience, it will work. If the food or service suck or it’s generally mismanaged…it will fail but it won’t be the location that causes it.

[Pete]

^

We can drop this because I know what you meant, I just get triggered on this subject because I see similar things said all over social media it's ridiculous.

But there are plenty of good neighborhoods in all directions of that intersection and everything else is improving.

[PhiAlpha]

^

We can drop this because I know what you meant, I just get triggered on this subject because I see similar things said all over social media it's ridiculous.

But there are plenty of good neighborhoods in all directions of that intersection and everything else is improving.

Well yeah. People on social media say those areas are horrible NOW because the collective IQ of most social media is below that of a Labrador Retriever.

And absolutely, today most, if not all, of the north inner core neighborhoods are far enough along that they would be considered at least reasonably safe, if not just as safe as the suburbs. Even Classen-Ten-Penn, which I thought was near hopeless south of 15th St in 2011, is moving along rapidly now.

[Plutonic Panda]

^

We can drop this because I know what you meant, I just get triggered on this subject because I see similar things said all over social media it's ridiculous.

But there are plenty of good neighborhoods in all directions of that intersection and everything else is improving.

Do you really read social media comments? I just recently stopped reading comments entirely because it hurts my brain.

[OkieBerto]

You’d probably be shocked at some of the traffic jams I've been in in London, Paris, Istanbul, Mexico City, Seoul, Jakarta, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Athens, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Rio, Sao Paolo, and other places you don't seem to think people drive cars.

And in many, many years of my travels I've never had anyone express that they think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars. They mostly think we are rich because so many have one or more.

My statement was a generalization about how we consume. The majority of people who go to coffee shops in the US are just going through a drive thru at Starbucks. I know our way of living is spreading around the world, but for the most part they travel in more diverse ways. Walking, biking, scooters, public transit. We are starting to do the same, but in Oklahoma the Car will be king for a very long time and most people end up driving their SUV to the Plaza and spend 30 minutes trying to find a parking space.

16th still has a high traffic problem with people using it instead of going to 23rd or 10th. That would also seem like a plus for a new restaurant, but more than likely it is actually the opposite for this area.

[OkieBerto]

^

We can drop this because I know what you meant, I just get triggered on this subject because I see similar things said all over social media it's ridiculous.

But there are plenty of good neighborhoods in all directions of that intersection and everything else is improving.

I live in Putnam Heights and go South on Penn almost everyday to work. Recently they have started to Upgrade the sidewalks and bus stops down this stretch of Penn. So 23rd will soon have a new intersection of sidewalks. I love living in this area and rarely feel like I am in danger.

All that said, there are parts of this area that have struggled. Even the McDonald's cut all the limbs off of their tree so that homeless people didn't use it for shade. There are problems, but it is still a great area with tons of great places to be. I go to Vasa weekly, I love Salad and Go. I am at Panda Express sometimes and it has never been a problem.

[OkieBerto]

Maybe you just don't know everyone in the city who has money.

This is honestly a strange take. Are you saying that people who have money no longer will walk a couple of blocks for a meal or that people who will walk don't have any money. lol

And what are we talking about here, anyway? Is this supposed to be the most expensive restaurant in the city targeted to senior citizens or something?

You are right. I think I went to far with that comment. Thanks for calling me out!

[Jeepnokc]

There are alot of factors that determine if someone is going to walk versus drive somewhere. We just got back from the Portland area (Hillsboro) and there were walkers everywhere. I was surprised at the number of people outdoors. Then my wife pointed out that it was a nice 80 degrees and not 102 like it was in OKC,

[dankrutka]

There are alot of factors that determine if someone is going to walk versus drive somewhere. We just got back from the Portland area (Hillsboro) and there were walkers everywhere. I was surprised at the number of people outdoors. Then my wife pointed out that it was a nice 80 degrees and not 102 like it was in OKC,

There is really one big factor: the built environment. People will walk in most any climate. If OKC was more walkable, dense, and had good pedestrian (e.g., tree lined streets which lower the temperature), people would walk more. For anyone interested in better understanding it, Jeff Speck's TED Talks are a good start. He advised OKC and often uses it as an example in his presentations.

[Oski]

When it comes to trees and walkability, imagine if most streets in OKC were lined with mature trees like those around Myriad Gardens or along Western Avenue in front of Chesapeake campus. I’d walk everywhere! Why don't we require new tract housing developments to plant a tree or two for every house they build? Neighborhood streets lined with trees not only enhance the beauty of the area but also increase property values. A great example is the Abbot Lake Community by Ideal in Moore. They plant trees with every new house, and in 5 or 10 years, that neighborhood will look incredibly pleasant.

[fortpatches]

When it comes to trees and walkability, imagine if most streets in OKC were lined with mature trees like those around Myriad Gardens or along Western Avenue in front of Chesapeake campus. I’d walk everywhere! Why don't we require new tract housing developments to plant a tree or two for every house they build? Neighborhood streets lined with trees not only enhance the beauty of the area but also increase property values. A great example is the Abbot Lake Community by Ideal in Moore. They plant trees with every new house, and in 5 or 10 years, that neighborhood will look incredibly pleasant.

Not to mention the environmental benefits!
Green infrastructure including urban parks and forestry can reduce and the energy demand of nearby buildings by 10 percent.
Roadside vegetation that is tall and dense can lessen downwind pollutants by approximately 30%.
Urban trees can reduce stormwater runoff by absorbing 15 to 27% of annual rainfall.

Studies show that human interaction with nature reduces high heart rate and blood pressure, and increases immune system function.5 Increasing tree cover also reduces heat illnesses such as heat stroke.6 Similarly, tree cover is linked to fewer heat-related deaths in urban areas. One analysis estimates that a 10% increase in tree cover would result in approximately 50 fewer deaths per year in Salt Lake City, Utah and 3,800 fewer deaths in New York City, New York.7 Additionally, trees and vegetation can act as a physical barrier to reduce noise and light pollution.

One review of 308 studies found that, on average, urban forests were 3.0° F (1.6°C) cooler than urban non-green areas.
Scale-dependent interactions between tree canopy cover and impervious surfaces reduce daytime urban heat during summer | PNAS
Benefits of Trees and Vegetation | US EPA

[dankrutka]

Sidewalks with mature trees on both sides creates an almost magical experience. It really is so relaxing and peaceful. I wish every city would prioritize it... and it's going to matter as temperatures continue to rise.