Councilman Pettis charged with felony embezzlement and tax evasion

[CloudDeckMedia]

What are the financial disclosure requirements for the City Manager? Many forget about this unelected behind the scenes position that wields much power and influence into how monies are appropriated.

OKC is a "strong manager" city, City Manager Jim Couch is the employee who manages staff and operations. As the saying goes, he can be fired on any Tuesday by five votes. His bosses - the City Council - appropriate money after recommendations by layers of staff who report - directly and indirectly - to the City Manager.

[u50254082]

which limits those elected to those that are self employed or those that are personally very wealthy

Yeah, much better to have wealthy corporate types wielding the levers of power to personally enrich themselves, their companies and family members. I see how that is working out on the levels of government in this state and country.

We're still talking about a city council seat right? Or did Trump Derangement Syndrome steal your attention and aim it back to the POTUS level? (where campaign reform is never going to happen because both parties are corrupt)

AT THE CITY LEVEL, I see no reason why someone who works an average FT job in the metro couldn't run for and get elected into a councilman/councilwoman role. There are plenty of companies that would be willing to allow flex time or AWS to permit going to meetings. It will require sacrifice, so that person probably can't have young kids or be in a weekend softball league, but that's called priorities. If you feel passionate enough to want to manage the local government, then you should be ready to sacrifice for the role.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
FWIW most council members - and certainly the better ones over the years - put in close to full-time hours on their council duties OUTSIDE of council meetings in the form of meeting with constituents, serving on City-connected boards and trusts, meetings with City staff, appearances at ribbon cuttings and ground breakings, etc. Not saying many of them also didn't work full time, but it is WAY beyond just council meetings, if done correctly and conscientiously. In those cases most of them have been at the very least business owners, because not very many employers allow THAT much flexibility.

[Pete]

Reminder that our new mayor works full-time for Hall Capital which has received a boatload of city incentives for 21c, Jones and West Village. And there will be more.

And Mayor Mick worked in what everyone knew was a bogus job at Ackerman McQueen which does a ton of business with the City of OKC through the Convention and Visitor Bureau.

And I know most of the people on city council don't even look through the massive agendas before their Tuesday meetings.


We don't need to pay them a ton, but these should be full-time jobs and they should be able to live off a decent but not excessive salary. And we should then expect more from them.

[Midtowner]

Right. Do you want your politicians to be on the public's payroll or someone else's?

[Urbanized]

Reminder that our new mayor works full-time for Hall Capital which has received a boatload of city incentives for 21c, Jones and West Village. And there will be more.

And Mayor Mick worked in what everyone knew was a bogus job at Ackerman McQueen which does a ton of business with the City of OKC through the Convention and Visitor Bureau.

And I know most of the people on city council don't even look through the massive agendas before their Tuesday meetings.


We don't need to pay them a ton, but these should be full-time jobs and they should be able to live off a decent but not excessive salary. And we should then expect more from them.

Hang on..."everyone knew was a bogus job..?" That's a very specific and definitive statement.

Also - as your post seemed to be in response to mine - I will point out that I did NOT mention "looking through massive agendas" but referred to "meeting with constituents, serving on City-connected boards and trusts, meetings with City staff, appearances at ribbon cuttings and ground breakings." As you know I myself have lamented many times in the past that (in my opinion) way to few commission/trust/council members read their agendas and attachments as thoroughly as they probably should before meetings, which then ends up with people winging it and some overreach. I DO think this happens more at the commission level than I do at the council level.

But I also mentioned the qualifier of "...most council members - and certainly the better ones over the years..." when I mentioned people working long hours. I have known and worked with a number of council members in the past couple of decades - some closely - and they ABSOLUTELY worked that job as a full-time job.

I'm a little confused because by the end of your post we seemed to be in agreement on the fact that the job really deserved compensation commensurate with the time expectations, which conflicts with your apparent assertion that they don't really work that hard and that some even apparently have "bogus jobs."

[Urbanized]

Also - just so that we are extra, EXTRA clear - the Hall Capital projects at West Village were approved for City incentives LONG before David Holt was the mayor, and in fact they were negotiated and approved YEARS before he even announced that he was RUNNING for Mayor. If memory serves, they were negotiated circa 2014 and approved circa 2015. I also believe that Pete you made some postings generally supportive of the idea at the time (though in fairness I haven't gone back to check).

At the time, David was an underappreciated State Senator, and had been for 4-5 years.

So...not sure what the assertion is. I would suspect that in the future if Hall Capital applies for City Incentives that he would recuse himself fully from discussion, as it seems would be appropriate. City Legal would know more about the requirements there than I would.

[Pete]

Mick doesn't even list the A&M job anywhere on his linked-in profile and does not mention it in his bios. I know people who worked there at the same time and they have said he was rarely there and did very little.

I am just pointing out that the ridiculously low pay of the council and mayor requires them to have income from other jobs and that those jobs result in conflicts of interest.

Mick's only job during his last term as major seems to be "TV Producer" of that OKC documentary. Who paid him for that? It seems pretty obvious if you watch that film. And the better question is, why would he get paid to make such a movie that was shown for free at the Harkins and on OETA?

And just to clarify the Holt point, the incentives for West Village -- of which Hall is substantial partner -- were approved the same day the council approved the election results where Holt had won the mayor's race.

I'm not claiming inpropriety, just pointing out the massive conflicts of interest that happen all the time on the council and how most people don't even know about them. For example, do we know all the investors with Hall and will that be disclosed any time one of them has business with the City?

[Jersey Boss]

OKC is a "strong manager" city, City Manager Jim Couch is the employee who manages staff and operations. As the saying goes, he can be fired on any Tuesday by five votes. His bosses - the City Council - appropriate money after recommendations by layers of staff who report - directly and indirectly - to the City Manager.

You make my point. If his bosses are not required to make meaningful financial disclosure statements, certainly the individual who is managing staff, as well as serving on boards that make recommendations on where tax monies are spent should be providing financial disclosure statements.

[CloudDeckMedia]

Pete, I’d prefer that a GENERAL discussion about possible mayor & council conflicts of interest be taken into its own thread, and away from this SPECIFIC thread about Pettis. Pettis created three bogus “non-profit” organizations, took all of the money, failed to file state income tax returns, and then resigned from the City Council.

[Urbanized]

...And just to clarify the Holt point, the incentives for West Village -- of which Hall is substantial partner -- were approved the same day the council approved the election results where Holt had won the mayor's race.

I'm not claiming inpropriety, just pointing out the massive conflicts of interest that happen all the time on the council and how most people don't even know about them. For example, do we know all the investors with Hall and will that be disclosed any time one of them has business with the City?

Hold up...the incentives for West Village were approved by City Council in 2016. Here is a post about that:

OKC Council approves $8.5M in TIF funds for downtown projects

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record April 5, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – City Council members approved $8.5 million Tuesday to help fund two MAPS-related projects downtown.

The first is a $66 million development of 345 apartment units in four buildings and about 9,200 square feet of commercial space just east of S. Classen Boulevard between W. Main Street and W. Sheridan Avenue. The project by the Newmark Grubb Levy Strange Beffort agency will receive $4 million under City Hall’s economic development plan for downtown through a tax increment finance district, or TIF...

...In both cases, city officials highlighted the need for more parking downtown. Mark Beffort promised about 800 parking spaces in four new parking garages and another 67 parking spaces along Sheridan and Fred Jones avenues.

“We actually have 2.33 parking spaces for every unit,” Beffort said. “We’re building additional parking because this particular area is growing and we hope to meet the demand for music venues as well as the 21C Hotel and ancillary retail services.”...

...Beffort said Newmark Grubb is spending about $3 million on infrastructure improvements, carrying Project 180 streetscaping into the new apartment area. The site also had a few environmental remediation issues that are awaiting approval by the Department of Environmental Quality.

One of the apartment buildings will feature a rooftop wading pool available to all the residents; another will have a clubhouse. Beffort stressed the idea of forming a community with a lot of interaction among people passing through.

At $66 million overall, the investment comes to about $150,000 per apartment unit. Rents are projected at $1.48 to $1.77 per square foot, although Beffort said it’s too early to tell how those figures will work out in the market. Developers are applying for a loan through the U.S. Housing and Urban Development, he said.

The apartments will take two years to complete, beginning this fall, Beffort said, although residential occupation may begin as soon as 15 months.

I don't have a copy of the council agenda you are referring to, but is it possible that they were approving milestone payments on this TIF incentive, which was approved two years before Holt was elected? Or are you suggesting that there were new TIF funds approved on that day that I'm not aware of? If it was a milestone payment, it is something the City was obligated to do and in fact would have been in breach of contract had they not.

I believe you if you say you are not suggesting impropriety, but I sure don't think that is as obvious as you think it is to the casual reader or someone who doesn't have all of the facts, timelines etc. at their disposal. The fact that Holt's election happened to be certified by council on the same day that the City approved payment on a contractual obligation for something which was approved two years before is the definition of coincidental. The two things have absolutely nothing to do with one another. So if they have nothing to do with one another, why are we talking about them again?

[Pete]

Below is from the City Council agenda for February 27, 2018.

The TIF money was not previously approved, the council had previously only recommended it be approved. On this day, the final agreement was to be approved and the subsequently signed by then West Village developers. Up until that point, there was no signed agreement in place.

I will re-state my original point: Many things are not disclosed in the financial dealings of the mayor and city council and we simply have no idea when matters come before public bodies where there are potential conflicts of interest. And the fact these positions are not paid sufficiently thus requiring full-time employment elsewhere means that often, due to outside jobs, there are conflicts that the public may or may not know about.

And this is relevant because it was just discovered, long after the fact, that a City councilman was likely embezzling money based on his position.

How many people do you think know Holt works for Hall Capital? Who knows what he does for them exactly? Who are their clients and investors?

You could say the same for any mayor or council member and they are not required to make financial disclosures apart from campaign financing.

As I said, I am not saying Holt or anyone else has done anything wrong, but we would never know, would we? Just like we didn't know about Pettis.

[BoulderSooner]

Below is from the City Council agenda for February 27, 2018.

The TIF money was not previously approved, the council had previously only recommended it be approved. On this day, the final agreement was to be approved and the subsequently signed by then West Village developers. Up until that point, there was no signed agreement in place.

I will re-state my original point: Many things are not disclosed in the financial dealings of the mayor and city council and we simply have no idea when matters come before public bodies where there are potential conflicts of interest. And the fact these positions are not paid sufficiently thus requiring full-time employment elsewhere means that often, due to outside jobs, there are conflicts that the public may or may not know about.

And this is relevant because it was just discovered, long after the fact, that a City councilman was likely embezzling money based on his position.

How many people do you think know Holt works for Hall Capital? Who knows what he does for them exactly? Who are their clients and investors?

You could say the same for any mayor or council member and they are not required to make financial disclosures apart from campaign financing.

As I said, I am not saying Holt or anyone else has done anything wrong, but we would never know, would we? Just like we didn't know about Pettis.

money was absolutly previousoly approved ... from that agenda item o

WHEREAS, on April 5, 2016, the City Council of the City adopted a Resolution
approving and authorizing a tax increment allocation for the Project in Increment District No. 2
in an amount not to exceed $4,000,000 as a Development Incentive to cover a gap in the
financing requirements necessary to complete the Project

it was APPROVED and authorized in april 2016

[Pete]

money was absolutly previousoly approved ... from that agenda item o

WHEREAS, on April 5, 2016, the City Council of the City adopted a Resolution
approving and authorizing a tax increment allocation for the Project in Increment District No. 2
in an amount not to exceed $4,000,000 as a Development Incentive to cover a gap in the
financing requirements necessary to complete the Project

it was APPROVED and authorized in april 2016

Yet, there was no finalized contract and thus nothing binding until this particular item was approved by the council.

[Urbanized]

...How many people do you think know Holt works for Hall Capital?...

Man Pete, I SWEAR I am not trying to simply be argumentative, or flippant, but the answer to this question is:

• Readers of OKCTalk (discussed at length in this thread)
• Anyone who can use Google (appears prominently in multiple results)
• Anyone who visited (or continues to visit) his campaign website
• Readers of The Oklahoman (which documented when he joined Hall Capital and also when he filed for mayor's race and when he was sworn in among multiple other mentions)
• Readers of NonDoc
• People who watch KFOR
• People who watch KOCO
• Anyone who visits his LinkedIn page
• Visitors to the Hall Capital website
• People visiting the City of OKC website (which says "...Mayor Holt is a licensed attorney and works for a family-owned investment company in Oklahoma City..." though not mentioning the company, which seems correct so that there would not be any promotional benefit gained

I think he has been very transparent about his role with Hall Capital, and it has been widely reported. I mean, short of wearing a sandwich board with the company logo when he does City business I'm not sure what else can be expected here. Which, of course, actually WOULD be improper if he did so.

Seriously, do we WANT a mayor who has no real connections to the business community or success in the private sector? Personally I felt his unique combination of experience in City Hall, in Washington, at the Capitol, in the non-profit sector, and yes, in the private sector was a major STRENGTH.

I also think it is worth noting that he has been a recipient of the Freedom of Information Oklahoma Sunshine Award annually recognizing "a public official or government body that has shown a commitment to freedom of information."

All of that said, I think we fundamentally agree that it is important to keep an eye on these things in general when it comes to City and other government, and also that it would be a good thing if the mayor and council were compensated in such a way that a regular person could make a living while serving and not be unduly motivated by their own personal financial situation.

[HOT ROD]

i personally think a fair salary for a council member would be $48,000 per year, with the mayor at $86,000. None of those are ridiculous huge but would do very well at drawing the normal populous from OKC into the mix.

This is a test, 1) How many people on this forum right now would take a council or mayor job if all the political engine to make it happen were in place?

Crickets!!!!!!

OK, now:

2) with a salary of $48,000 per year (and maybe a carrot of tax exampt status in city limits) - NOW how many people would take the job in OKC?

..... enough said ........

[David]

Speaking personally, $48,000 would be a bit tighter than what I currently live on but I could manage it. $12,000 is basically a joke that requires a second salary (or someone independently wealthy) to pick up the slack.

[jerrywall]

Ok, I don't know the work load or time requirements of OKC city councilmen, but my father was an Edmond councilman in the 80's while running a business full time. So the salary was moot.

[Pete]

Speaking personally, $48,000 would be a bit tighter than what I currently live on but I could manage it. $12,000 is basically a joke that requires a second salary (or someone independently wealthy) to pick up the slack.

And it's a 4-year commitment. That's a long time to spend on basically a full-time job for basically no pay.

[David]

What is the history of the council salaries? Has the $12,000/$24,000 been increased at all in recent years?

[BoulderSooner]

What is the history of the council salaries? Has the $12,000/$24,000 been increased at all in recent years?

anincrease was voted down 2008 24K for the council 48 for the mayor

[ctchandler]

And it's a 4-year commitment. That's a long time to spend on basically a full-time job for basically no pay.

Pete,
My attorney was a city councilman for several terms and I never had trouble seeing him in his office. I don't know about "full-time job". I know it does take time and I thank all of them for their service but it certainly isn't full time.
C. T.

[ctchandler]

Duplicate post.

[hoya]

i personally think a fair salary for a council member would be $48,000 per year, with the mayor at $86,000. None of those are ridiculous huge but would do very well at drawing the normal populous from OKC into the mix.

This is a test, 1) How many people on this forum right now would take a council or mayor job if all the political engine to make it happen were in place?

Crickets!!!!!!

OK, now:

2) with a salary of $48,000 per year (and maybe a carrot of tax exampt status in city limits) - NOW how many people would take the job in OKC?

..... enough said ........

It would still be a significant pay cut. The only reason I would take that job at that salary would be if I intended on using its inherent political connections to make money elsewhere. If I ran a business that would really benefit from the exposure of me being a city councilman, then it would make sense. But as it is, it's a lot of work (if you want to do a good job) for very little gain.

[Jeepnokc]

It would still be a significant pay cut. The only reason I would take that job at that salary would be if I intended on using its inherent political connections to make money elsewhere. If I ran a business that would really benefit from the exposure of me being a city councilman, then it would make sense. But as it is, it's a lot of work (if you want to do a good job) for very little gain.

There have been several over the years that have benefited with name recognition from their time on the council. Ken Boyer, Jerry Foshee, etc. I know several attorneys that have ran for public office for no other reason than added name recognition.