David Boren and the B12

[OKCretro]

Both OU and Ut's donor program/ season ticket policy is based on getting tickets to the game in Dallas. That's why i think that game survives even with a conference split.

Now if Ou and osu parted ways that would be a disaster to osu football who base their season ticket policy on the OU home game. Imagine if Holder tried to sell TCU or Baylor as the "marquee game of the year".

[jerrywall]

Now if Ou and osu parted ways that would be a disaster to osu football who base their season ticket policy on the OU home game. Imagine if Holder tried to sell TCU or Baylor as the "marquee game of the year".

So I assume you can show links that compare seasons without home bedlam games vs seasons with to show a major drop in season ticket sales?

[Brownwood]

So I assume you can show links that compare seasons without home bedlam games vs seasons with to show a major drop in season ticket sales?

What we know without question is OSU has NEVER sold out their new stadium. They have implemented a policy of not selling single game tickets for the OU games and left millions of dollars on the table to add incentive to purchase season tickets. Like it or not, OU in the same conference helps OSU more than OU. It's been 15+ years since OU has NOT sold out their much larger stadium, regardless on the opponent, higher ticket costs and donor requirements. Frankly, OSU needs OU whereas OU does not need OSU.

[jerrywall]

What we know without question is OSU has NEVER sold out their new stadium. They have implemented a policy of not selling single game tickets for the OU games and left millions of dollars on the table to add incentive to purchase season tickets. Like it or not, OU in the same conference helps OSU more than OU. It's been 15+ years since OU has NOT sold out their much larger stadium, regardless on the opponent, higher ticket costs and donor requirements. Frankly, OSU needs OU whereas OU does not need OSU.

Like I mentioned up thread, absolutely OSU benefits from being in a conference with OU. And OU benefits from being in a conference with Texas. And?

Oh, and btw, OSU has sold out the expanded stadium. Off the top of my head, the 2013 Baylor game was at full capacity, IIRC.

And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home. If someone wants to claim otherwise, it should be easy to provide citations.

Its funny, if you look at their attendance records, only one (#10) is against OU. #1-9 are other teams.

[BoulderSooner]

Like I mentioned up thread, absolutely OSU benefits from being in a conference with OU. And OU benefits from being in a conference with Texas. And?

Oh, and btw, OSU has sold out the expanded stadium. Off the top of my head, the 2013 Baylor game was at full capacity, IIRC.

And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home. If someone wants to claim otherwise, it should be easy to provide citations.

Its funny, if you look at their attendance records, only one (#10) is against OU. #1-9 are other teams.

Osu has sold out 1 game in the history of tboone. And the reason only 1 OU game is in the top ten is because there are no single game tickets sold for the OU game. The OU game is why osu sells season tickets. That is not even debatable

[traxx]

If the OU game doesn't sell OSU season tickets, then why did Holder even implement that policy?

[jerrywall]

If the OU game doesn't sell OSU season tickets, then why did Holder even implement that policy?

Did I say that? Nope. I won't argue what I didn't say. I said...

"And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home."

Are you claiming they sell zero season tickets in years without the OU game at home?

[jerrywall]

The OU game is why osu sells season tickets. That is not even debatable

Interesting. So season tickets have zero sales in years without an OU home game. Should be cheaper then! Good to know.

[Just the facts]

OSU fans are missing the point. By being in a different conference OSU inherits an entire new fan base - OU fans. If OSU was sucessful in going to the PAC 12 (as part of a new PAC-16), then they would be hosting USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford on a regular basis. OSU season tickets would soar.

[traxx]

Did I say that? Nope. I won't argue what I didn't say. I said...

"And yes, they'll sell more season tickets with quality home games. But their season ticket sales aren't totally dependent on any one game at home."

Are you claiming they sell zero season tickets in years without the OU game at home?

No, that's not what I intended to claim at all. My point is that the OU game has been one of their biggest sellers and that's why Holder implemented the policy of you had to buy season tickets to get the OU game.

[MitchellCole]

Aside from the fact that it's "then", not "than," you lost me the moment you implied that moving to the SEC would *limit* OU's exposure. There's just no way you can defend that.

And we won't even go into the fact that among the strongly conjectured alternate scenarios from a few years ago included the one wherein the SEC had *already* told OU it would be welcome, but balked when we tried to make OSU part of the deal. So this notion that OU "won't" go to the SEC just doesn't hold water. It might not be their *first choice* academically, but if that's their best alternative, they will certainly take it.

A&M's problem is that their ego was bigger than their history or their resume, and moving conferences changed neither of those things. Nebraska's mistake was moving in tandem with the loss of their walk-on program, which was the fuel that kept their program going arguably for decades. They are now very much a "used-to-be-good" program that struggles to be relevant every few years with no history in the region and no hook to make them attractive, to say nothing of their revolving-door of coaches.

There is no slam-dunk guarantee OU will be "successful" in the SEC or B10 or (insert favorite conference here), but with a pile of national championships, conference titles, and Heisman winners in their back pocket, I'd say the odds are very much in their favor, and they represent a program very much "in demand." Not so much can be said about A&M.

Alabama is clearly going to be better than OU as long as Saban is around. Ole Miss is going to be a bear under Freeze. Miles always has good teams. Throw in 1 or 2 elite East teams. OU would get a recruiting bump in the SEC, but fans would have to get accept a bunch of 9-3 seasons with the occasional contending year.

[jerrywall]

No, that's not what I intended to claim at all. My point is that the OU game has been one of their biggest sellers and that's why Holder implemented the policy of you had to buy season tickets to get the OU game.

Certainly. Every year there is a marquee game that requires a season ticket. When they play OU at home, that is the game. Like I said, they certainly benefit from being in a conference with OU. But in years it's not a home bedlam, they still move tickets and season tickets.

Any team is going to benefit from being in a conference and playing a team with a larger fan base. I'd prefer OU and OSU remain in the same conference because I like the bedlam series, and I feel like it'd potentially go away with a split. But I don't believe OSU's sales are totally dependent on OU either. Especially if they, as JTF mentioned, are in a conference with quality opponents.

[SoonerDave]

Alabama is clearly going to be better than OU as long as Saban is around. Ole Miss is going to be a bear under Freeze. Miles always has good teams. Throw in 1 or 2 elite East teams. OU would get a recruiting bump in the SEC, but fans would have to get accept a bunch of 9-3 seasons with the occasional contending year.

This isn't about what's happening *now*, it's about what's happening over the next five, ten, even twenty years. The NCAA hammer is getting ready to put Ole Miss back a step or two or ten, and neither Saban nor Miles will be at their respective schools in five years (nor Stoops, for that matter). I don't at all blindly accept the notion we'd routinely be 9-3 any more than I'd blindly accept the notion we'd routinely be 3-9. Let's face it - *no one* knows what CFB will look like in five or ten years. This is all speculation and gamesmanship. All OU can do is see the mistakes made by others, and themselves, and hope not to repeat them if at all possible.

[Martin]

and neither Saban nor Miles will be at their respective schools in five years (nor Stoops, for that matter).

whoa, whoa, whoa... saban and miles, i get. but you don't think stoops will be at ou in 5 years? -M

[OKCretro]

Certainly. Every year there is a marquee game that requires a season ticket. When they play OU at home, that is the game. Like I said, they certainly benefit from being in a conference with OU. But in years it's not a home bedlam, they still move tickets and season tickets.

Any team is going to benefit from being in a conference and playing a team with a larger fan base. I'd prefer OU and OSU remain in the same conference because I like the bedlam series, and I feel like it'd potentially go away with a split. But I don't believe OSU's sales are totally dependent on OU either. Especially if they, as JTF mentioned, are in a conference with quality opponents.

You just mentioned why the big12 is doomed.
There are only 2 schools that have a huge fan base. The other schools just don't.
OSU sells its season ticket policy on the fact that they get OU or UT every other year (as do the other 9 other little brothers) and if they expand, OSU wont get them every other year because the little brothers wont agree to expansion if they are put into the other division w/out OU and UT.

[dankrutka]

OSU fans are missing the point. By being in a different conference OSU inherits an entire new fan base - OU fans. If OSU was sucessful in going to the PAC 12 (as part of a new PAC-16), then they would be hosting USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford on a regular basis. OSU season tickets would soar.

Why do you think USC, UCLA, Oregon, Cal (?!?), and Stanford would be preferable to the regional rivalries (for which opposing fans would actually make the drive to Stillwater) with OU, UT, Baylor, TCU, etc.? You're ignoring the fact that if OSU joined the PAC-12 then it would probably be a 16 team conference and USC, for example, would likely be in a different division and might not even visit every four years. Beyond that, Pac 12 fan bases really aren't that strong anyway and would probably show up in pretty small numbers to Stillwater. Instead of regional rivalries, OSU would get a lot of home games against Utah, Oregon State, Arizona, etc. that really aren't that attractive and certainly way less convenient. So, would you rather have USC visit once every four or six years, or Texas visit every other year? Again, the grass is always greener... but the Big 12 makes more sense on many levels.

It's ironic that you seem to favor the sprawl version of conference realignment.

[ou48A]

whoa, whoa, whoa... saban and miles, i get. but you don't think stoops will be at ou in 5 years? -M

Stoops has said many times that he doesn’t like the idea of coaching for a long time…
Stoops will have 20 years in at OU at the end of the 2018 bowl game….and be able to receive benefits ....His wife has already retired…. His 2 boys will graduate from High school in 2 more years…..
There have been lots of rumors that Stoops will retire after they graduated from high school.

[Just the facts]

Sprawl version of conference realignment - that is a good observation and don't think that hasn't crossed my mind already.

[Martin]

Stoops has said many times that he doesn’t like the idea of coaching for a long time…
Stoops will have 20 years in at OU at the end of the 2018 bowl game….And be able to receive benefits His wife has already retired…. His 2 boys will graduate from High school in 2 more years…..
There have been lots of rumors that Stoops will retire after they graduated from high school.

interesting... did not know that. seems odd that someone who coaches at that level doesn't have the drive or desire to do it as long as possible. -M

[Swake]

You just mentioned why the big12 is doomed.
There are only 2 schools that have a huge fan base. The other schools just don't.
OSU sells its season ticket policy on the fact that they get OU or UT every other year (as do the other 9 other little brothers) and if they expand, OSU wont get them every other year because the little brothers wont agree to expansion if they are put into the other division w/out OU and UT.

You are forgetting Kansas. Which may well leave for the Big 10 or ACC if things don't improve.

[dankrutka]

Sprawl version of conference realignment - that is a good observation and don't think that hasn't crossed my mind already.

I really do think people underestimate what is lost by conferences spreading out. For example, I am going to the OU-TCU basketball game in Fort Worth with 15 friends who live in DFW next month. I'm really looking forward to it. In fact, I'll probably take public transportation there. Say OU and KU joined the Big 10 as has been proposed. As an OU fan, there would be zero conference games within a 5 hour drive for me from DFW. As it is now, 5 (UT, Baylor, TCU, Tech, OSU) of the 9 members are within that range and the two Kansas schools are just beyond it. Only Iowa State and West Virginia are not in the immediate region. If OU joined the Big 10 like many would like then we would have one, fairly distant neighbor, and a lot of far flung universities. I just think that is a ton to lose and is why the Big 12 is worth fighting for...

That's all aside from the fact that under that fairly popular Big 10 proposal, OU would lose most ties to Texas (even if OU-Texas football continued), which has long been central to OU's recruiting success.

[ou48A]

interesting... did not know that. seems odd that someone who coaches at that level doesn't have the drive or desire to do it as long as possible. -M

It doesn’t really have anything to do with coaching drive or desire.
Stoop is always a family man first…. and that’s where his first priority is...He would be that regardless of occupation.
Players and staff know it’s part of genuine character trait of Stoops that helps make him the good coach that he is.

[OKCretro]

I hear the echo that people prefer to drive to watch their team play away games. But that just isn't the case. I believe the last team to sellout their visitor allotment at Owen field was Ohio state.
The small schools with little following in the big12 don't travel well at all. Heck several of the teams didn't even send their band to Norman this year.
Pathetic

[ou48A]

I hear the echo that people prefer to drive to watch their team play away games. But that just isn't the case. I believe the last team to sellout their visitor allotment at Owen field was Ohio state.
The small schools with little following in the big12 don't travel well at all. Heck several of the teams didn't even send their band to Norman this year.
Pathetic

There have been many teams sell their entire ticket allotment for games in Norman since the TOSU game.

[traxx]

interesting... did not know that. seems odd that someone who coaches at that level doesn't have the drive or desire to do it as long as possible. -M

I think that lack of desire has been pretty obvious over the last several seasons.