MAPS 4 Infrastructure

[Teo9969]

I feel like we should at least try at Canadian county as well on the RTA.

Another aspect of the RTA is that I would think it would restructure current budgets by the cities as the RTA should take-over Embark, Citylink etc.

What if we skipped "MAPS 4" and did an RTA vote for a $.016625 tax where $.01 helped with capital costs and fell off after 5 years, and the remaining $.006625 existed in perpetuity to fund the O&M of the system.

We could resume MAPS 4 after that 5 year period.

[Spartan]

The main advantage to adding Canadian County is that retail over there won't have a tax advantage over OK+CLE counties. That said, how does the distribution of population density in Canadian County lend itself to transit service? Once we take their money, we will have to serve them. Canadian County will probably want El Reno to be served. Is that worth the expense?

[Teo9969]

The main advantage to adding Canadian County is that retail over there won't have a tax advantage over OK+CLE counties. That said, how does the distribution of population density in Canadian County lend itself to transit service? Once we take their money, we will have to serve them. Canadian County will probably want El Reno to be served. Is that worth the expense?

Depends on how we do it. Frequency to El Reno would not necessarily have to be all that often. Maybe a small train every 3 hours.

Also, it may not even need to be rail. We could easily serve a community like Mustang with bus routes, and provide enhanced connectivity between places like Mustang/Yukon that are more likely to interact with each other.

Also, I wonder if getting the transit in line now would help curb some of the sprawl in those areas.

[kevinpate]

Is there even a minuscule chance that Maps4 will actually happen without a chamber/council pledge for a large chunk of the funds to go to convention center expansion, and perhaps also streetcar expansion and still more new work at the fairgrounds?

[mkjeeves]

Is there even a minuscule chance that Maps4 will actually happen without a chamber/council pledge for a large chunk of the funds to go to convention center expansion, and perhaps also streetcar expansion and still more new work at the fairgrounds?

If they want it to pass.

[Just the facts]

2 - REPAVE ROADS. That last road quality survey was disgusting. Especially the SE sector...OMG!!!!

It is sad that the City can't raise enough regular tax revenue to fund adequate maintenance of the existing roads that this is even under consideration by anyone to be a MAPS project. There is a national movement afoot to postpone all new roads until all existing roads are repaired. Surprisingly, I have heard support for this from a wide range of people with direct reference to the Convention Center replacement.

I wonder how much it would cost to repave every street in OKC that hasn't been repaved in the last 5 years.

[Architect2010]

It is sad that the City can't raise enough regular tax revenue to fund adequate maintenance of the existing roads that this is even under consideration by anyone to be a MAPS project. There is a national movement afoot to postpone all new roads until all existing roads are repaired. Surprisingly, I have heard support for this from a wide range of people with direct reference to the Convention Center replacement.

I wonder how much it would cost to repave every street in OKC that hasn't been repaved in the last 5 years.

Repave? I'm still waiting for the 2007 GO Bond to completely reconstruct our neighborhood's DECADES old concrete streets to asphalt with sidewalks on one side... There are tons of streets in this city that need much more than to just be repaved. So I would imagine it would cost a lot. Lol.

[Spartan]

Given how slooooowly OKC tends to roll out general obligation bond projects, I have never understood why they even go the bonding route... you might as well let a tax accrue as slowly as they work on them. I would even be willing to bet that OKC has found a way to LOSE MONEY on the time value of money...with bonds! Amazing, indeed. But no we are a "well-ran" city no need to rock the boat...

Is there even a minuscule chance that Maps4 will actually happen without a chamber/council pledge for a large chunk of the funds to go to convention center expansion, and perhaps also streetcar expansion and still more new work at the fairgrounds?

The problem is not all three of those things are equal. Transit - we simply can't build fast enough for our city. CC - the case needs to be made, but the right CC investment would work. State Fairgrounds and horse facilities - I'm starting to think that in 2015, that kind of money could be put to better use. The three ideas range from categorically strong, to make your case, to categorically weak.

Notice since MAPS has been in power (and nearly always Chamber-controlled) the balance of funding toward either transit versus trade show facilities. Actually, on second thought, let's not think about that...

[borchard]

I might be in the minority here, but I have voted for every MAPS project since it's inception. I believe in it, and I have been very happy with the impact they have had on OKC.
That being said, I would vote AGAINST any future MAPS project that raised the sales tax any more than it already is.

[Teo9969]

I might be in the minority here, but I have voted for every MAPS project since it's inception. I believe in it, and I have been very happy with the impact they have had on OKC.
That being said, I would vote AGAINST any future MAPS project that raised the sales tax any more than it already is.

Would you vote for a new county sales tax? If so what would be the maximum?

We're at 3.875% for the city, I'd certainly be okay with raising that to a flat 4%.

[Spartan]

The problem is some communities have their own really crappy version of the MAPS sales tax, as if they can do anything on the same level. Reconciling every community's sales tax will be very complicated.

[CCOKC]

Here is a link to the OTC sales tax rate page. http://www.tax.ok.gov/publicat/copos/copo1Q15.pdf As you can see OK is the only county with no tax at all. I am not sure how much will be needed to fund the operating costs but I am sure this is where the taxpayers will eventually be asked for funding when the RTA is established. Of course Cleveland County already has a tax so I am sure that is where the complications may come Spartan.

[no1cub17]

It's funny - even the programmers of SimCity had a better understanding of just how much money it takes to maintain roads and how much of a waste of money they can be. I remember one of the first few times I played, I lowered the city budget by a ton (to try to make a profit of course), and next thing I know the roads all over town are crumbling, and I had to fix them for what $100/tile or something? But by the time I spent the money to fix them (and went broke), all the residents had left anyway.

[Plutonic Panda]

Then you're doing something wrong because I have huge sprawling highways throughout all of my cities and they make profits just fine.

[kevinpate]

Then you're doing something wrong because I have huge sprawling highways throughout all of my cities and they make profits just fine.

Maybe due to speed traps Mr. Anderson, the ones the agents never mentioned to you?

[oklip955]

Before complaining about streets, lets look at how other states pay for street improvements. They go do the work and send the property owners that front the street for their share of the cost of the work. I know people in other states that were hit with a $5000 bill for the paving of their neighborhood street in front of their house. It was added to their property tax. They could pay it up front or pay it out over a few years with interest added.

[hoya]

Roads get expensive fast. MAPS shouldn't be used for roads because you'll very quickly see how far your money doesn't go.